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Fades ways are considered post ups my guy
U think Boogie takes a fade away 18 footer in a playoff game that has harden guarding him in the post with foul trouble?
Fades ways are considered post ups my guy
Frankly, when any ST poster is doing a good job of presenting arguments I would make, I am usually happy to let him carry the ball and follow the discussion. I don't need to pile on, and I am not counting my posts.
Just because they don't quote you doesn't mean that there aren't ST posters of like mind - maybe not about MLeonard and Harkless, but about LMA. it is my impression that many of LMA's supporters are "grateful" because he is virtually the only "big name" FA to sign with SA, and because they believe he is a "star." On the other hand, I don't like his game to begin with, plus I think he is on the precipice of severe decline, and I want to sell as high as I can. I am fine with the idea of acquiring two solid rotation guys with potentially ascending trajectories at the cost of one "star" player with a severely descending value.
Crazy ain't it? "Posting up" for an 18-foot fadeaway?!
when has Boogie been in the playoffs?your takes are terrible
LaMarcus shoots 15.8 shots per game. 21.9 % of those shots are 16 or more feet away (3s excluded). That's 3.46 shots per game. He hits them at 40.2 % and most of them are face-up jump shots. So you're complaining about 1-2 fadeaways from 16+ feet which he still hits at a decent clip
I think the specifics of his illustration are imprecise, but the point is correct. Boogie doesn't take fadeaways. He faces up or he plays in the post. LMA is the only big man I can think of who relies on long fadeaways as a staple of his arsenal.when has Boogie been in the playoffs?
U think LMA takes a pullup 3 pointer with 20 seconds left on the shotclock?
It is not a decent clip, and it is less efficient than the incredible percentage that you, yourself, noted he (and the team) has been shooting over the last 15 games or so during which the team and LMA's game have changed significantly. (That brings the discussion full circle.) Besides, the statistics do not capture 2 other important facts. Those long fadeaways are essentially LMA isos that interrupt the rhythm of the offense and take him out of rebounding position. More importantly statistics reflect averages. They do not accurately depict the big picture: some games he doesn't take a single fadeaway (that's great); other games he shoots nothing but those fadeaways (that's terrible). His game is one of those two; rarely, if ever does LMA play a single game that reflects the statistics you quote. He is either feast or famine, tough or soft.
It is relevant what every other big man in the league does TODAY. If no other big man bangs down low every game, why do you expect LMA to do it.
Ad hominem blah blah blah. I hung up to listen hours ago and am still waiting
I told you what I believe. How any other team plays has never been very relevant to how the Spurs operate - or how they should operate. Pop has been pretty masterful at adjusting his game to suit his talent for over 20 years. Good basketball strategy is good basketball strategy in any era - you concentrate on mismatches and areas where you have an advantage over your opponent. LMA has a huge advantage most nights on the inside. That advantage is largely nullified when he takes long fadeaways.
But you seem to be arguing in favor of an antiquated, inefficient style over an "antiquated" efficient style. That's your prerogative, but it isn't good strategy.
Dirk Nowitzski had a HOF career shooting way more turnaround fade-away shots than LaMarcus ever did.
Fact
Actually, averages do a GREAT job of capturing the big picture. What doesn’t is dwelling on a few games months ago where LaMarcus was in major fade-away mode. The Spurs seem to be actively moving away from that.
Oh, and bigs rarely fall off a cliff, value wise, like guards and wings. They can do what they do well into their late 30s. LA isn’t going to suddenly lose value this year, or next, or the year afterwards.
Or even Duncan and Robinson - I guess Duncan never shot a bank shot? Even the old days, not every shot was a dunk, unless you were Shaq.
OK, so just delete that one sentence from my post.
True about Dirk. I wish we had had Dirk.
I am not just talking about a few games this season. That fadeaway has been LMA's go-to move his whole career. I am not convinced that the Spurs (LMA) are indeed moving away from "that." Actually, I thought one of the factors that played into LMA's trade demand was Pop's effort to turn him into more of a post player. But I hope you are correct and that LMA adapts without sulking or demanding a trade.
Bigs may rarely fall off a cliff, but I am personally very apprehensive about LMA. The Spurs apparently couldn't get squat for him before last season.
Last edited by sasaint; 01-07-2019 at 12:11 PM.
A bank shot is not the same as a fadeaway. LMA hardly ever uses the backboard.
A bank shot does count as a post-up though.
i can see this. this was supposed to be "the year" his jumpshot was reformed and we never got a chance to see it. but pop has also raved about his work ethic iirc. at some point, the talk of being a hard worker has to translate into tangible results, or else its just rhetoric.
as to the all defense team, i think a lot of us thought he deserved it, but were more so surprised that he actually got the recognition. like chinook said, i think its fair to say white looks like a better man to man, shutdown defender. but murray's impact there is evident with his disruption. the metrics back it up as well.-His defense. Wasn't most of ST surprised when he was named 2nd Team All-Defense last year? Now all of a sudden he's being treated like he's this really special defender. I honestly think his rebounding helped him get the nod there. If he was just an average rebounder for a PG, the rest of his defense wouldn't have been enough. I think White is easily the better defender. I can't believe I read some people say White is only a good defender and that Murray is elite.
by trading him during his ACL recovery, you're not going to get the same value.-His value. Despite the injury, I still think he's a really highly thought of prospect around the league.
-Nobody is suggesting to trade Murray for a bag of peanuts. Yeah, he can rebound and he is an above average defender but a legitimate, long 3&D player would help in those areas + fill a position of need + be a better fit with the rest of the core. I wouldn't trade him for just any half decent 3&D guy but for the right guy I absolutely would. Maybe GS is just cruising, and maybe I'm being a homer and putting too much stock into how the team has looked the last month or so...but looks pretty wide open this year and I believe the Spurs would be right in the thick of things with a legitimate 3&D guy at SF.
a) even though ACL recoveries have become more routine, it's still going to cause hesitation
b) teams trading for him midseason know they're not getting him for this season, and that's a factor in his value
I wish we had Dirk from 10 years ago. Today’s Dirk is everything you fear that LaMarcus will become.
I had heard the opposite from LAs talk with Pop, that he would run the floor, bury his man under the rim, and the guard would just shoot it. My impression was that he wanted MORE paint touches, and I think his overall improved play bears that out. People said stupid things like he couldn’t pass out of a double team, and that’s proven to be false. When they feed him in the paint, he’s just more engaged, overall.
"I wish we had had Dirk."
LMA can be a true beast when he wants to be. I am a little surprised that you heard what you heard - but I admit I am not very plugged in.
In the end I am a Spurs fan, so I do hope you are right about LMA, because whatever I may think or want, he will be here until either he retires or he demands a trade.
which game was he shooting fadeaways in? You obviously never played in the post. A fadeaway is a mandatory bail out move if the defender doesn't let you go middle or a help defender rotates. He also doesn't take them from 18 feet out, he actually takes them with one foot in the paint. For a 7 footer that shot is similar to a lay up. You obviously didn't watch a lot of games. People love to call LA inefficient, yet he always shot over 50% in his Spurs career, except for one season where he shot 48%. LA averages the most post ups in the entire NBA yet people want to complain he's not posting up enough and shooting too many jumpers
Steve Adams (OKC). He's low-key a really good player, and you're right, he might be the only guy who fights in the low-post every game. I'd love to get him, but I don't see how...
Well, just two things: we obviously are watching different games. I believe he shoots most of his fadeaways outside the paint - way outside the paint. You believe otherwise. I suspect neither one of us has the time or inclination to either compile or watch a compilation of all of LMA's fadeaways this season. Push.which game was he shooting fadeaways in? You obviously never played in the post. A fadeaway is a mandatory bail out move if the defender doesn't let you go middle or a help defender rotates. He also doesn't take them from 18 feet out, he actually takes them with one foot in the paint. For a 7 footer that shot is similar to a lay up. You obviously didn't watch a lot of games. People love to call LA inefficient, yet he always shot over 50% in his Spurs career, except for one season where he shot 48%. LA averages the most post ups in the entire NBA yet people want to complain he's not posting up enough and shooting too many jumpers
Second: I do not accept "post-ups" as a valid statistical category. That category has become such a catch-all it is virtually meaningless. Basically any time a player has his back to the basket, regardless of proximity to the basket, it is somehow called a "post-up." Chinook replied to one of my posts earlier that bank shots count as post-ups. Proximity to the basket was inherent in the meaning of "post-up" for most of the history of the game - including when I was an undersized center who had to have a fadeaway move. I know it when I see it, and it isn't 18 feet from the basket.
If you accept the current understanding of a post-up, then we will simply have to agree to disagree. The bottom line, regardless of categories or semantics, is that, except for face-ups, I want LMA to play closer to the basket and play as big and strong as his physique allows. That is maximizing his stature and strength and maximizing his advantage over most defenders.
He might be the only one who does. He also doesnt have the skillset or touch to shoot a fadeaway haha.
Dunkford is right that SASAINT has never played bball himself in the post. It is tiring as to bang non stop. No one does it but unless u played it yourself at least in high school. You would know how tiring it is.
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