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With so many PGs projected to go in the lottery it seems likely that a good wing prospect could drop to the projected Spurs range. Really like the defensive potential of Isaac Okoro and Precious Achiuwa if their shots are fixable.
i would trade any three spurs for SGA.
With so many PGs projected to go in the lottery it seems likely that a good wing prospect could drop to the projected Spurs range. Really like the defensive potential of Isaac Okoro and Precious Achiuwa if their shots are fixable.
It's amazing that in 2019 folks are still trying to talk about "true SFs". Even six or seven years ago, the average height for small-forwards was 6-6. That was with guys like James, Durant and Gay driving up the mean. In today's league, there's no point in even talking about getting 6-8, 6-9 dudes to play the three. Almost all of them will be fours or fives, and even if there remain some taller guys, their games no longer take advantage of their height.
I'm all in favor of getting defensive forward prospects. The team is still hurting from missing out on Morris. But they aren't hurting because they don't have a true small-forward. That's ridiculous tone-deaf bull . There's a middle ground between getting a PF to play the three and relying on Forbes to be a wing. Don't confuse Pop playing suboptimal guys with the team lacking size. Not counting Bryn, the team is average to above average at every position.
Well he's right, the likes of Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, etc. are all 6'6. The taller ones like Paul George play way more as 4s nowadays.
The best players in the league all happened to be SFs in the past generation. Obviously having taller guys with equal talent will make you better that's true for every position. But that doesn't mean that 6-6 guys are undersized at the three. They really haven't been in a long time. Bowen wasn't bigger than Keldon Johnson, but people still think he could check guys like Dirk (he couldn't, but that's a different thread) and he certainly had his share of match-ups against 6-8 guys. Was he a "true SF"? I don't think it matters.
EDIT: So Bowen may or may not have been taller and longer than Johnson. He was listed as 6-7, but the NBA only made the push to stop vanity metrics this past year. Likely, he was taller than Johnson's 6-4.75 without shoes, but it's possible that if he was it was only be a fraction of an inch. Wingspan was also probably close. Bowen didn't have combine measurements to go by, but Johnson's 6-9.25 isn't superlative enough to give him the edge. In terms of standing reach, Johnson ranked as the seventh-tallest pure SF in his class and ninth SF/combo-forward. There were definitely paint players who fell below Johnson there. Given Bruce's long neck, it's likely that Johnson had him beat there. Less ambiguously, Johnson is a stocky dude. His 216 pounds put him only behind Little in terms of wings with his standing reach or greater. Bowen likely weighed more than the 201 pounds listed, but Johnson probably had him beat there too and surely had Bowen beat size-wise at the same age.
Last edited by Chinook; 12-29-2019 at 02:41 PM.
Yeah that's a huge part of it. SFs have gotten even smaller as teams have started valuing shooting and perimeter skills over size. I'd argue that SG has gotten even smaller with the rules letting teams get away with two guys who would've been classified as PGs playing together. Not every short guy is a lightening rod like Bryn is. Regardless, that has pushed more 6-5ish guys into the other wing spot. Most of the time, the opposing team won't be playing more than one player in the middle position that's too much for a 6-5 guy with strong defensive fundamentals to handle.
These are the heights (per nba.com) for all of the best SFs. Rejoicing over having a 6’6” SF or pursuing one is not logical.
Yeah... this list reinforces the point. Not only do a lot of those guys play PF now but they're almost all within an inch or two of 6-6. No one's thinking, "Middleton being a whole inch taller is why he dominated". Nobody.
Not sure what's the worst - believing these heights are actually true for most listed players, not realizing the vast majority play as PFs, or caring whether an inch makes that much of a difference.
Except, it isn't an inch. The taller player almost always has longer arms, too. That's why there's the talk of "length" and wingspan. Put a 6'5" guy next to a 6'8" guy, and have them reach up. You'll see more than a 3" difference, in almost every case, sometimes a lot more.
Now, standing reach is the more important measure by far, but I seriously doubt there are stats for significant difference in wingspan between players who are 6'6 and those who are 6'7 or 6'8. If you have a link for this I'd be happy to read.
Edit : Still none of this disproves the notion that 6'6 is a perfectly fine height for a modern NBA SF. Skills, athleticism, handles, feel for the game etc. - these are the things that are more important than an inch here or there.
Last edited by BG_Spurs_Fan; 12-29-2019 at 02:20 PM.
Eh, basketball players are weird. You'll get plenty of players with wingspans five inches longer than their shoeless heights. Murray and Walker come to mind there. Johnson has a very good standing reach due to his body shape. It's better than Brandon Clarke's, I'm pretty sure.
You put the word "significant" in, to make it your own judgment call, I see. As far as the measurements go, look it up yourself.
Basically, you're trying to argue that the NBA is not a game where the taller man has an advantage. That is incorrect.
I said significant because you had an issue with my point that an inch doesn't make much of a difference - in order for the wingspan to add to the difference it'd have to be significantly longer, i.e. more than an inch on average. I've indeed looked it up for myself thanks.
No. My argument is that skills are way more important than listed heights.
If height were the principle factor, teams wouldn't be getting smaller. No one has argued against the notion that if two guys have the same skill-set but one is taller that the taller man would be more desirable. But can a guy successfully defend players who are an inch taller than then on the regular? Of course. Very few ace defenders play at a consistent height advantage. Guys like Leonard, Butler, Bowen, Beverly and Allen regularly had to battle players who had much more than an inch on them.
If you had a magic pill to add two inches to Johnson's height with no side effects, I'd be down for you using it. But am I worried that Johnson lacks an inch on Jimmy Butler? No. Not at all.
Versatility is the key with Forwards, not just height. Wingspan and length are good, but the ability to be strong, switch onto multiple types of players and move on the perimeter is the big thing to look for (besides shooting obviously)
I’ll flip it on you. Who are the 3 best 6’6” and under SFs in the NBA?
Then why are NBA players so much taller than the average person? There are guys around, of average height, who have very impressive skills. No NBA club would even talk to them. Their lack of height is too much of a disadvantage. They could play a whole season, every game, without getting even one contested rebound.
But anyway, if it's an argument that there might be some players at 6'5" who could play SF (on a winning team,) then sure, there could be some. Taller is better, tho.
Not true. Their primary position is SF or wing...the one they start at and play the most at. Sure there are some small ball lineups that they play PF in but that’s not where they are usually used.
False. Those are the heights. Look up with and without shoes measurements yourself. Doesn’t take very long to see how tall they are.
see my other post. Thinking these players are mostly playing PF is ridiculous.
Obviously agree with this.
The height thing is just a straw man argument for those that want KJ to get more playing time or think he’s the SF of the future for the spurs. They are just trying to justify this thought by saying Kawhi and others are basically 6’1” and height doesn’t matter
the problem with KJ is that he just isn’t very good regardless of his height. The fact that he is also short for a SF is just another reason the spurs need to look elsewhere to bring in the SF that we badly need.
The "positionless NBA" makes a lot of discussions turn into arguments. A lot of sources are listing LeBron as a PG this year, even though he starts with Avery Bradley who is usually listed as the PG, even though he's a SG. Doncic is 6'7" and listed as a PG this year, even though he starts with other guys who are really PG's. I would take Doncic as the SF on this team any day of the week... but he's a PG. If you could create two guys with the exact same skill set, the taller one would have an advantage. But even that isn't a certainty because of wingspan, hand length, standing reach, etc.
These days you want a SF who is athletic and quick. And strong. And has range. And good handles. (There aren't many of those. We used to have one.) And he can be 6'6" if he has a long wingspan. That's probably better than 6'8" with alligator arms. If you look at that list of the "best" SF's, their size is a bonus. There are lots of guys with the size who would never be standout SF's.
KJ may be only 6'6" but he's not skinny -- he has a sturdy muscular NBA body.
He looks like he can defend SFs in this league.
They're not. The average height in the NBA has been 6'7" for 30 years.
https://www.probasketballtroops.com/average-nba-height/
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