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  1. #326
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I'll concede that the NBA, overall, is somewhat more athletic. Sports science and the evolution of the 21st century human body attest to that. And defensive schemes are better overall. But in regards to the zone, it was played in Jordan's era. I'm going to post a link on this that is pretty much irrefutable.

    http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot....-myth.html?m=1

    One of the most telling points the author makes is 6'2 Tony Parker led the NBA in PIP in a zone defense era. Pretty much shattering the notion that if MJ played when zone D was legal it would hinder his ability to score. Again, it was played in the bulls era it just wasnt supposed to be and I can recall coaches in the 90s whining and crying about teams zoning and getting away with it.
    yes an article written by a blogger who named his blog "nobody touches jordan" is going to be completely objective

    additionally, theres a big difference between zones and traps. that guy mostly shows examples of traps and doubles, which were legal and much different than a zone.

    regardless, no one said zone was never played whatsoever, i fully believe that there were times that teams got away with it. but it was outlawed, therefore less prevalent and less a part of team strategy. just the same way players still very clearly and blatantly handcheck today (although also being less prevalent), despite it being outlawed.

    as for the tony parker point, he did that well before most teams really started to make use of different zone concepts. it was still a relatively new thing for most teams. it was not used as much as it has been in recent years. additionally, mike and tp are not the same type of player by any means. mikes bread and butter was in the midrange area, while TP was almost entirely focused on getting layups and floaters, and had an offensive system designed to help him do that.

    i dont know how many more times i have to say this, but mike and bron had different obstacles in different eras. no need to compare the two eras, because we can continue to raise counterpoints back and forth all day long and get absolutely nowhere. fact is, they are two of the greatest players of all time. but the real differences were 1) they are completely different types of players, neither style being superior to the other necessarily, and 2) mike was drafted into a much better situation than lebron was, and it clearly played out more in mikes favor. situations can make all the difference in the world. a better situation for guys like tmac, barkley, and ewing, and they probably don't retire ringless, while a different situation for guys like timmy manu and parker probably result in far less championships than they have. if shaq stays in orlando, he might never have rang.

  2. #327
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Also, the list of defenders in section 3 is comical

  3. #328
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    You are trolling again, lefty. Stop that!!

    Parker > Jordan tbh

  4. #329
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    but mike and bron had different obstacles in different eras. no need to compare the two eras, because we can continue to raise counterpoints back and forth all day long and get absolutely nowhere. fact is, they are two of the greatest players of all time. but the real differences were 1) they are completely different types of players, neither style being superior to the other necessarily, and 2) mike was drafted into a much better situation than lebron was, and it clearly played out more in mikes favor. situations can make all the difference in the world. a better situation for guys like tmac, barkley, and ewing, and they probably don't retire ringless, while a different situation for guys like timmy manu and parker probably result in far less championships than they have. if shaq stays in orlando, he might never have rang.
    MJ was slashing quite a bit before the first retirement. Upon his return he was mainly fade-away on the baseline, which Kobe did with impunity for 2 decades after him, facing every defense known to man.

    Just for the record that Bulls team was abysmal when MJ got there. I have to put this out there because folks like lefty and try and play the Jordan got beat up early on, card. Well, yeah he played with 130lb crack heads until Pippen and Grant developed in 1990. Of course he did, as anyone would have.

  5. #330
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    i actually dont consider lebron the goat

    i dont have any issue with people not elevating lebron

    i simply pointed out the ridiculousness of people such as dirks_finale talking about how jordan faced loads of big centers while lebron faced a bunch of measly 6'6 centers, which is clearly just not true. he consistently played against teams with legit big men, even several teams that frequently employed "twin-tower" lineups with two legit bigs, such as the spurs, pistons, celtics, pacers, hawks, and raptors. about the only notable team he had to deal with was the warriors, who still generally started a 7-footer at center (who made major contributions) whether it was bogut or mcgee.

    me and him have come to simply agree to disagree as to our how great we each feel lebron is. but to literally lie to make a claim is simply ridiculous. it has nothing to do with wanting people to grovel at lebrons feet. but i guess it could be worse, he could have claimed ray allen had a scoring increase in 00-01, when he actually had a decrease, a stat that any re can pull up in about 6 seconds in order to avoid blatantly lying to try to make a point.
    I thought I admitted to reading the year wrong but hey, some people just want to act like a spurned lover all the time.

  6. #331
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Just for the record that Bulls team was abysmal when MJ got there. I have to put this out there because folks like lefty and try and play the Jordan got beat up early on, card. Well, yeah he played with 130lb crack heads until Pippen and Grant developed in 1990. Of course he did, as anyone would have.
    I don't hold his first few seasons against him, no one should. However, MJ is also on record for saying that his rookie year team was the most talented team he ever played with, even more than the championship teams. Some of those players being dealt around is what led to them building the first three-peat squad. It's not just about the talent that he or Bron had, its the competency of the front office. The Bulls had a very competent front office that built a nice squad. The Cavs front office was well known for their incompetency, made evident when the best pickup they could make was Mo Williams, while teams like the Miami, Boston, Detroit were either making big moves to get star talent, or retooling to get the right pieces for championship runs.

  7. #332
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Woolridge could play. Not so much with the rest of them . Jordan was maybe a little too tipsy when he made that statement

    I don't hold his first few seasons against him, no one should. However, MJ is also on record for saying that his rookie year team was the most talented team he ever played with, even more than the championship teams. Some of those players being dealt around is what led to them building the first three-peat squad. It's not just about the talent that he or Bron had, its the competency of the front office. The Bulls had a very competent front office that built a nice squad. The Cavs front office was well known for their incompetency, made evident when the best pickup they could make was Mo Williams, while teams like the Miami, Boston, Detroit were either making big moves to get star talent, or retooling to get the right pieces for championship runs.

  8. #333
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I thought I admitted to reading the year wrong but hey, some people just want to act like a spurned lover all the time.

  9. #334
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Spurs fan's favorite. Jason Eugene Terry

    Punching them in the nuts for 8 years with the Mavs.


  10. #335
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    And this should've been the 08 finalists.

    Absolute choke in game 1 and game 4 goes to OT if the correct call is made.


    Only choke that came clase in that era was the one the Lakers did in game 4

  11. #336
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Spurs fan's favorite. Jason Eugene Terry

    Punching them in the nuts for 8 years with the Mavs.

    1 ring get

    I remember a bitter Jason Terry after the 2007 season in some ESPN talk show :
    “If we didn’t lose to GS the Spurs wouldn’t have won the le “
    well you couldn’t even beat the damn Warriors

  12. #337
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    That was Cuban's mistake. Built the team to beat the Spurs and not necessarily to win a le.

    Terry's mouth always got us in trouble. I can recall one game against the Suns. We are up maybe 5-10 points at the half. Terry does a halftime interview and says this team(suns) does not play any defense. Not only do the Suns go on to curb stomp the Mavs in the 2nd half, but it completely turned their season around and I think they ended up going to the WCF and we lost in the 1st RD again. Thanks, Jet

    1 ring get

    I remember a bitter Jason Terry after the 2007 season in some ESPN talk show :
    “If we didn’t lose to GS the Spurs wouldn’t have won the le “
    well you couldn’t even beat the damn Warriors

  13. #338
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    That was Cuban's mistake. Built the team to beat the Spurs and not necessarily to win a le.

    Terry's mouth always got us in trouble. I can recall one game against the Suns. We are up maybe 5-10 points at the half. Terry does a halftime interview and says this team(suns) does not play any defense. Not only do the Suns go on to curb stomp the Mavs in the 2nd half, but it completely turned their season around and I think they ended up going to the WCF and we lost in the 1st RD again. Thanks, Jet
    that and the Lebron stare down dunk

  14. #339
    6X ST MVP
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    90's Celtics were such a train wreck.


  15. #340
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    And he walked right into it.

    that and the Lebron stare down dunk

  16. #341
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    My bad. More like jilted teenage lover.

  17. #342
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    My bad. More like jilted teenage lover .

  18. #343
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    i Held my breath until daddy got me the Beamer. Doctor said it caused brain damage.

  19. #344
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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  20. #345
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    that and the Lebron stare down dunk

  21. #346
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    MJ got his ass handed to him by inferior players too but the NBA doesn’t want anyone to see that

  22. #347
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    MJ got his ass handed to him by inferior players too but the NBA doesn’t want anyone to see that
    Name 1 playoff series that Jordan got outscored by a bench player for the entire series. We will wait...

  23. #348
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Name 1 playoff series that Jordan got outscored by a bench player for the entire series. We will wait...
    Terry was a 6th man but don’t tell me Stevenson was better offensively than Terry
    JET was on the bench otherwise that 2nd unit would have been lacking

    Jordan was outscored by a pasty flabby Pastor (I think his name was Danny Change or something like that) in an elimination game
    Terry was wayyyyu better than Danny Change
    Change was also a beisbol player, and we all know beisbol is not a sport

    Also got outscored several times by a 6.1 midget PG who didn’t even make the Dream Team in the playoffs
    Matbe that’s why Jordan didn’t let him go to Barcelona, he got so embarrassed
    Last edited by lefty; 06-17-2020 at 10:37 PM.

  24. #349
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    Grasping at straws

  25. #350
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    definitely not Larry Bird highlights

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