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  1. #26
    Believe. The Janitor's Avatar
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    MAXIMUM COPIUM

  2. #27
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I agree with basically everything Dejounte especially that this is not really about tanking.

    This move would have been easier to stomach with a clear indication of tanking but I think we will see in the coming weeks PATFO will make moves to make this team more compe ive in the short term.

    I personally have little attachment to this organization after near 30 years of fandom. The culture BS is now more important than winning.

  3. #28
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    We had at least another year to determine his value.

    This trade will be easier to swallow if they are actually committed to tanking. We’d be naive to think that is a given. We also likely just ate 15-20mm in Galo just to buy him out.

    What? No. Spurs can only offer an extension with a percentage increase on his current deal. I think that's percentage is 20%. Which is way under the max. So spurs can offer an extension now but it would be well below the max and his current value. So Murray would not, and the rumour was he said he will not sign the extension. So if the spurs wanted to resign him at his market value, they would need to wait for him to expire. Meaning he becomes unrestricted. Spurs can offer 4+1, where as other teams can offer 3+1. So your either over paying to keep him or letting him go for nothing.

    Atlanta now keep his bird rights, so they can offer that 4+1 once his contact expires. So the best time to trade him his now, 2 years left. Teams won't give significant assets for a 1 year expiring on someone they cannot extend. Get me?

  4. #29
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    What? No. Spurs can only offer an extension with a percentage increase on his current deal. I think that's percentage is 20%. Which is way under the max. So spurs can offer an extension now but it would be well below the max and his current value. So Murray would not, and the rumour was he said he will not sign the extension. So if the spurs wanted to resign him at his market value, they would need to wait for him to expire. Meaning he becomes unrestricted. Spurs can offer 4+1, where as other teams can offer 3+1. So your either over paying to keep him or letting him go for nothing.

    Atlanta now keep his bird rights, so they can offer that 4+1 once his contact expires. So the best time to trade him his now, 2 years left. Teams won't give significant assets for a 1 year expiring on someone they cannot extend. Get me?
    I think you missed understood me.

    I’m in agreement his extension amount wasn’t appropriate. It was only like 3yrs 70mm. Klutch were spot on advising him not to entertain that as his market value is much higher.

    I’m saying DJ was locked in for two more years. We could have seen how next season went before deciding whether he is a major flight risk who would inevitably require a max deal.

  5. #30
    Der Willis der Spurs wird siegen! FlAVaK's Avatar
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  6. #31
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Holy mother of wall of text. That did not format correctly. I even previewed the changes and it didn’t look like that. Here it is again:

    Debate will go on and on about how if Murray was worth building a team around. We will not know for certain until maybe half a decade later.

    Fact is: the Spurs didn’t believe it.
    Why?
    I don’t think we have to look at his individual performance and assess whether or not he could have elevated his game more or if it was possible for the team to raise its ceiling while paying him a max contract.
    I think the answer is simpler than that. With the Spurs, it has always been about culture. I’ve been on record saying DJ was a ticking time bomb. Even during when I supported his rise, I held the same belief. It’s known he’s had a rough childhood, and that has led him to have trust issues as an adult and random outbursts on social media or at times on the court. These are not things I held against him. He is human, after all, and we all go through . The problem is when it affects his ability to lead.

    Those trust issues?
    -Crept into not seeking mentorship more from the Big Three. If anyone noticed, DJ and Parker have this weird relationship where they only acknowledge each other when they have to.
    -He did not truly take Primo under his wing. I paid attention to these two throughout last season, and while there are some photos of Murray talking to Primo on the floor, he would post a cryptic message the next day about how people “need to stay in their lane”.
    -Speaking of those cryptic messages— imagine if the leader of the team was constantly posting about the people who are “real” to him and everyone else is fake. That is toxic as . Murray was always insecure, and maybe that motivated him big time to become a star but it’s a serious character flaw. I always thought Murray would grow out of it eventually as the years go by and that he would retire as a Spur. I thought that by the end of his career, he would be grateful about how the Spurs molded him into a great person. I think the Spurs still did end up doing that. He forgave his father recently and that was no small thing. Forgiving someone who hurt you is probably one of the most mature and most difficult thing one can do. And Murray did that. I’m proud of him.

    The Spurs made a decision today. A decision that was probably brewing for awhile. The team now has players who seemingly have no troubled past. I think trading Murray allows someone else more equipped to take the leadership role. Someone else who will be more inclusive and accepts people for who they are. Everyone knows we need it.

    I’m excited to find out who that will be.
    somebody really has to explain to me why Spurs fans always come up with science fiction stories. "something happened in the locker room" "his posts on IG pissed off the FO" outtahere. They talked to him about an extension and DJ rightfully said no. He also said he won't resign next year either, which makes sense because you can only give him a little raise and he would be severly underpaid which he is already. (this was reported by Windhorst)

    The Spurs did what they always do: They penny pinch. And they realized they don't want to pay him max money nor lose him for nothing so they traded him. Besides that they also know this is the right draft to tank for a franchise player and the one at the top of the list is from France and played for Tony's team so it makes even more sense, since he would probably embrace getting drafted by the Spurs because of their history with international/french players.

    As far as character there are 0 issues with DJ. He loves San Antonio, is a natural leader, is coachable, plays D, holds himself accountable, welcomes the rookies and has always been loyal to the organization. This guy didn't ask to get traded. They had those extension convos, the Spurs then listened to offers and when things got close with Atlanta they informed him and asked him if he would be ok with a trade to ATL to play with Trae. DJ and Trae then talked to each other and they were already boys anyway going back to the All-Star game.

    All that other stuff y'all be making up is nonsense

  7. #32
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    somebody really has to explain to me why Spurs fans always come up with science fiction stories. "something happened in the locker room" "his posts on IG pissed off the FO" outtahere. They talked to him about an extension and DJ rightfully said no. He also said he won't resign next year either, which makes sense because you can only give him a little raise and he would be severly underpaid which he is already. (this was reported by Windhorst)

    The Spurs did what they always do: They penny pinch. And they realized they don't want to pay him max money nor lose him for nothing so they traded him. Besides that they also know this is the right draft to tank for a franchise player and the one at the top of the list is from France and played for Tony's team so it makes even more sense, since he would probably embrace getting drafted by the Spurs because of their history with international/french players.

    As far as character there are 0 issues with DJ. He loves San Antonio, is a natural leader, is coachable, plays D, holds himself accountable, welcomes the rookies and has always been loyal to the organization. This guy didn't ask to get traded. They had those extension convos, the Spurs then listened to offers and when things got close with Atlanta they informed him and asked him if he would be ok with a trade to ATL to play with Trae. DJ and Trae then talked to each other and they were already boys anyway going back to the All-Star game.

    All that other stuff y'all be making up is nonsense
    I agree with alot of the above you posted also but you can’t convince me PATFO weren’t growing weary of some of the twitter stuff and DJ coming into his own as a household name with some pep in his step.

    When you get over yourself, PATFO expect you to stay over yourself and the cultural component definitely made it easier for them to ring the till on DJ.

  8. #33
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    somebody really has to explain to me why Spurs fans always come up with science fiction stories. "something happened in the locker room" "his posts on IG pissed off the FO" outtahere. They talked to him about an extension and DJ rightfully said no. He also said he won't resign next year either, which makes sense because you can only give him a little raise and he would be severly underpaid which he is already. (this was reported by Windhorst)

    The Spurs did what they always do: They penny pinch. And they realized they don't want to pay him max money nor lose him for nothing so they traded him. Besides that they also know this is the right draft to tank for a franchise player and the one at the top of the list is from France and played for Tony's team so it makes even more sense, since he would probably embrace getting drafted by the Spurs because of their history with international/french players.

    As far as character there are 0 issues with DJ. He loves San Antonio, is a natural leader, is coachable, plays D, holds himself accountable, welcomes the rookies and has always been loyal to the organization. This guy didn't ask to get traded. They had those extension convos, the Spurs then listened to offers and when things got close with Atlanta they informed him and asked him if he would be ok with a trade to ATL to play with Trae. DJ and Trae then talked to each other and they were already boys anyway going back to the All-Star game.

    All that other stuff y'all be making up is nonsense
    My post will be easy to validate in the coming months when we find out if the Spurs make some win-now moves in free agency and trades. Let’s see how they spend their cap space.

    btw, thanks for all the opinions thus far. The topic was controversial and I know it.

  9. #34
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    Reading all this stuff about Murray extension, I REALLY hope the Spurs did NOT go to a guy who just played the best basketball of his career which put him on the trajectory of being a max player, and actually try to talk to him about an extension that would financially pay him the least amount of money he can make in the future. No one is signing an extension like that after being a first time all star. No agent is letting their client sign that contract. If Dejounte had said yes to that Klutch would probably just drop him as a client and his agent would be fired.

    That's just beyond tone deaf. If it comes out that the spurs even remotely asked Dejounte about an extension just fire everybody, sell the team, and move it to Austin. It's just no way people who work in a setting as high stakes as professional sports could be that ing dumb to do something like that. If the Spurs did that I bet Dejounte couldn't tell Klutch to get him traded fast enough and I don't blame him.

  10. #35
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    My post will be easy to validate in the coming months when we find out if the Spurs make some win-now moves in free agency and trades. Let’s see how they spend their cap space.

    btw, thanks for all the opinions thus far. The topic was controversial and I know it.
    Exactly my thought process. Show me this was about the future and they finally have conceded they need to smarten up and play the game properly versus them being cheap and selling high with DJ’s personality pushing them over the top.

    There is an popular or unpopular opinion (depending on who you ask) regarding Pop’s perceived ego and narcissism… these next few weeks will be telling… atleast for me anyways in how I view PATFO.

  11. #36
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Reading all this stuff about Murray extension, I REALLY hope the Spurs did NOT go to a guy who just played the best basketball of his career which put him on the trajectory of being a max player, and actually try to talk to him about an extension that would financially pay him the least amount of money he can make in the future. No one is signing an extension like that after being a first time all star. No agent is letting their client sign that contract. If Dejounte had said yes to that Klutch would probably just drop him as a client and his agent would be fired.

    That's just beyond tone deaf. If it comes out that the spurs even remotely asked Dejounte about an extension just fire everybody, sell the team, and move it to Austin. It's just no way people who work in a setting as high stakes as professional sports could be that ing dumb to do something like that. If the Spurs did that I bet Dejounte couldn't tell Klutch to get him traded fast enough and I don't blame him.
    Sadly this is how PATFO operates. Ironic given Pop is being paid beyond his worth.

  12. #37
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Exactly my thought process. Show me this was about the future and they finally have conceded they need to smarten up and play the game properly versus them being cheap and selling high with DJ’s personality pushing them over the top.

    There is an popular or unpopular opinion (depending on who you ask) regarding Pop’s perceived ego and narcissism… these next few weeks will be telling… atleast for me anyways in how I view PATFO.
    the trade can simultaneously still be about the future, just not the immediate future as one may hope and (fairly) expect. I think in the Spurs’ view, the reset button wasn’t pushed by making this trade. They will continue building upon what they currently have and they may believe they can increase their win total this upcoming season and every season after that. The assets gained from the trade will then be extra fuel for a team that’s good already. Think Warriors adding top five pick, Kuminga, while already having good players (and also having salary cap flexibility since they’re likely not to be locked in on huge contracts of Curry or Draymond’s level). Likely not as established as those Warriors, but the point I’m making is that THAT might be the endgame. NOT Wembawhoever.

    we will see very soon.

  13. #38
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    The culture fit seems very plausible among other factors. I’ve been looking at this through the lens of Brian Wright more and more taking over the team and doing things his way and finding players that he likes. The culture thing is not new but Wright definitely seems to have a personality archetype and DJM is definitely not it.

  14. #39
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    Sadly this is how PATFO operates. Ironic given Pop is being paid beyond his worth.
    Yeah as someone who works in upper management in real life, there are some real disturbing trends since the Kawhi debacle of how the Spurs operate that makes me think that if they start the tank they might never stop it. because no free agent that moves the needle will come here and none of the players who are here will stay here.

    Just look at the Spurs track record with nba players who are not on a rookie contract.

    Kawhi Leonard. Pay me supermax. No? Fine trade me.
    Demar Derozan. Pay me the max. No? Sign and trade somewhere else.
    Pau Gasol. I want to start. Oh you starting Poeltl? I'm not coming off the bench, trade me.
    Lamarcus Aldridge. I want to start. Oh you starting Poeltl? Ok I'll just go home and never play for the Spurs again.
    Demarre Carroll. Released and basically said the Spurs lied to him about what his role would be.
    Thad Young. Flat out said he wants to play and if the spurs aren't playing him then trade him. Traded. Bonus points for it being phrased as "the spurs traded thad for a1st" where thad asked to be traded in the first place.
    Dejounte Murray. No I won't except an extension that pays me the least amount of money I can make. Traded.

  15. #40
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    This whole site is functioning like it’s Windows ‘95 right now tbh.
    fify

  16. #41
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    According to Brian Windbag, Dejounte let the team know through Kunt Sports Management that he would not return to the Spurs when his contract was up. That works for me. He had a good season, inflated his value way above what he's worth and the Spurs got a good return. Never was a fan of this kid or his self-promoting bull on Instagram but he put in the work and the Spurs will be better for taking a chance on him. He's not a game changer and the Hawks are going to find out what we already know. He talks like an Alpha, acts like an Alpha, but he's doesn't play like one. ZF Given.

  17. #42
    Like I said... tmtcsc's Avatar
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    Yeah as someone who works in upper management in real life, there are some real disturbing trends since the Kawhi debacle of how the Spurs operate that makes me think that if they start the tank they might never stop it. because no free agent that moves the needle will come here and none of the players who are here will stay here.

    Just look at the Spurs track record with nba players who are not on a rookie contract.

    Kawhi Leonard. Pay me supermax. No? Fine trade me.
    Demar Derozan. Pay me the max. No? Sign and trade somewhere else.
    Pau Gasol. I want to start. Oh you starting Poeltl? I'm not coming off the bench, trade me.
    Lamarcus Aldridge. I want to start. Oh you starting Poeltl? Ok I'll just go home and never play for the Spurs again.
    Demarre Carroll. Released and basically said the Spurs lied to him about what his role would be.
    Thad Young. Flat out said he wants to play and if the spurs aren't playing him then trade him. Traded. Bonus points for it being phrased as "the spurs traded thad for a1st" where thad asked to be traded in the first place.
    Dejounte Murray. No I won't except an extension that pays me the least amount of money I can make. Traded.
    All those players you listed were pretty much except for Kawhi. We all know what kind of clown show he is. Leonard and Gasol are the only ones who ever won a ring. Derozan? We saw firsthand what kind of empty stats he put up.

  18. #43
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Still haven’t seen folks make good arguments about DJ’s toxic posting as a leader of a team

    are people really telling me they wouldn’t feel uncomfortable if they had a coworker they follow on IG saying, “cant trust these hos at work. They trying to take my place”? Yeah, he comes up to you and shakes your hand the next day. Are you telling me everyone you work with is genuine like that? And DJ’s other posts saying, “they smiling in my face everyday but i know they’re fake as ”? These posts aren’t the least bit concerning if this was supposed to be your coworker or team lead? Love DJ and all but goddamn, man.

  19. #44
    Like I said... tmtcsc's Avatar
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    Still haven’t seen folks make good arguments about DJ’s toxic posting as a leader of a team

    are people really telling me they wouldn’t feel uncomfortable if they had a coworker they follow on IG saying, “cant trust these hos at work. They trying to take my place”? Yeah, he comes up to you and shakes your hand the next day. Are you telling me everyone you work with is genuine like that? And DJ’s other posts saying, “they smiling in my face everyday but i know they’re fake as ”? These posts aren’t the least bit concerning if this was supposed to be your coworker or team lead? Love DJ and all but goddamn, man.
    Is this all new to you Eric? Look at your screen name. You've had nothing but praise for this guy and have been dialed in on him since he got here. He was never the player you thought he was. This isn't about his upbringing, its about who he's always shown everyone to be. He's a loud mouthed braggart who was more interested in the fame that came along with being in the NBA than becoming a star. I'm not saying he didn't improve and put in some work but he was "meh" at best when it came to being an answer to the PG position.

    I'm just glad the Spurs are getting something back for him. Next moves - get rid of the roster fodder and headcases. Lonnie is at the top of that list. Another guy filled with potential who can't seem to string good games in to any sort of consistency. Hurt thumbnail, hurt feelings, woke overdrive, immature, unreliable. Yeah, we need to get rid of that and find some real players. Real dawgs who compete.

    The Spurs are going to sign a veteran or someone who can teach the youngsters how to navigate the league and season without getting in to trouble and keeping in good shape. I can't imagine that person being Manu or Tim. They were winners and would probably be frustrated as trying to keep the kids in line. , Tim couldn't influence Aldridge's lazy ass.

  20. #45
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Still haven’t seen folks make good arguments about DJ’s toxic posting as a leader of a team

    are people really telling me they wouldn’t feel uncomfortable if they had a coworker they follow on IG saying, “cant trust these hos at work. They trying to take my place”? Yeah, he comes up to you and shakes your hand the next day. Are you telling me everyone you work with is genuine like that? And DJ’s other posts saying, “they smiling in my face everyday but i know they’re fake as ”? These posts aren’t the least bit concerning if this was supposed to be your coworker or team lead? Love DJ and all but goddamn, man.
    I stay off social media entirely other than watching 22 yr old chicks dance on tiktok but I’ll concede I cringe when I see that posted on here. The thing is every other NBA organization puts up with their players and their twitter fingers.

    PATFO needs to get with the times. There are no reincarnations of TD/Manu or DRob in the pipeline, and if there were we’d be too damn prideful to tank properly to attain them. I’ll leave TP out since he tried to bang his teammates wife. Funny how PATFO turned a blind eye that time.

  21. #46
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    His IG must have been an issue with the FO. They hate that type of exposure. And they probably did think he was a potential time bomb as he got more accolades and got closer to a max. I assume they are scarred by the Kawhi experience. , they’ve avoided drafting a small forward since he left, lol. Having said that, he was a gym rat and did a lot of things they probably loved. Did his teammates like him? Hard to say. I would also say that a big chunk of the NBA operates like DJM did. He wasn’t a complete outlier. Just random thoughts.

  22. #47
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    His IG must have been an issue with the FO. They hate that type of exposure. And they probably did think he was a potential time bomb as he got more accolades and got closer to a max. I assume they are scarred by the Kawhi experience. , they’ve avoided drafting a small forward since he left, lol. Having said that, he was a gym rat and did a lot of things they probably loved. Did his teammates like him? Hard to say. I would also say that a big chunk of the NBA operates like DJM did. He wasn’t a complete outlier. Just random thoughts.

    DJ earned every damn thing he got here. He arguably earned the right to act up on social media too. I don’t condone it but at the end of the day he does his job and this is where I can’t get onside with PATFO; guys who don’t produce can fly under the radar and get paid if they are culture guys while personalities like DJ are shunned.

    You think PATFO would have ever drafted Lamelo or Ant? Fk no. They probably would have still taken Vassell at 3.

  23. #48
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    yes, a lot of NBA players use their platform in irresponsible ways.

    however,

    The truly top tier NBA players (and leaders) don’t constantly post juvenile that DJ did.

    And

    The Spurs have a higher standard than others do when it comes to who should own the throne when it comes to leadership as evidenced by the slow transition from Pop.

  24. #49
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    yes, a lot of NBA players use their platform in irresponsible ways.

    however,

    The truly top tier NBA players (and leaders) don’t constantly post juvenile that DJ did.

    And

    The Spurs have a higher standard than others do when it comes to who should own the throne when it comes to leadership as evidenced by the slow transition from Pop.
    and we as Spurs fans will suffer. Moral victories don’t bring me pleasure. I’m comfortable with losing for the right reasons but for the first time in 25 years I’m actually questioning my fandom and it’s because of PATFO.

  25. #50
    Veteran td4mvp2k's Avatar
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    According to Brian Windbag, Dejounte let the team know through Kunt Sports Management that he would not return to the Spurs when his contract was up. That works for me. He had a good season, inflated his value way above what he's worth and the Spurs got a good return. Never was a fan of this kid or his self-promoting bull on Instagram but he put in the work and the Spurs will be better for taking a chance on him. He's not a game changer and the Hawks are going to find out what we already know. He talks like an Alpha, acts like an Alpha, but he's doesn't play like one. ZF Given.
    agree. he did the best of hiding it and always knew he was a me guy. glad spurs jumped on it at his peak and didnt look back.

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