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  1. #151
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    It's extremely tricky to almost impossible to stagger Leonard and Aldridge minutes and get one to play on the court all the time..unless you want to burn them by season end..overplaying them game by game, the spurs will have significant stretches where neither is on the court. It's just the way it is in the RS.

    Now, come playoff time when playing your superstar in Leonard and Your Allstar in Adridge...about 38 becomes the norm. And fatigue wont be as much of an issue because of the days rest...

    Pop know this..You can tell with his subs the last 3 weeks. It's just not possible to fully implement that in the RS if you want to make dure they dont overplay.

  2. #152
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I think Pop's stubbornness is really hurting the team.

    I would keep the starting 5 as it is, but let one of Leonard or LMA ALWAYS be on the court. This bull of having a complete second unit out there really kills me as a European, as we don't have this. You could still manage minutes but let a FP caliber in the court all the time.
    Check Lee in after 3 mins for LMA then LMA, Dedmon and Anderson for Gasol, Lee, Leonard at 9. It's just not rocket science, a heavy scorer would always be on the court, Lee could somewhat mask Gasol's inability for rebounds, while Dedmon would take defensive tasks from LMA. It always hurts me to see the Dedmon-Lee combos, as neither of them can hit outside the paint. In my way, some paint scorer would be paired with someone who can shoot outside.

    Balance would be much better and LMA would get a load of more touches without Leonard.
    you have good points in the entire post. I don't know how Pop can be that stubborn either, and he has stuck to strict bench lineups in the recent playoffs too). I think that was fine when Ginobili was still one of the best players in the league, but he's declined and his role has diminished too. I hope Pop is not stubborn in the playoffs. Tweaking rotations could have helped against OKC but coach didn't want to...

  3. #153
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Pau's averaging 17/11/4 with two blocks per 36. Frankly, the dude's been sort of great
    Kanter is averaging 24/11 w/ 2 blocks per 36.

    He has a net rating of is +13, PER of 24 & TS of 61% while Pau is at +11, 55% & 20.

    They are both empty stats though as Kanter has an on/off number of -1.6 while Pau is at -10.6 & the main reason why the starters get butt ed on defense along w/ why LMA plays so passive.

    Issue is that he and LMA have issues that they can only mask when they are both 100-percent engaged, and that doesn't happen nearly enough. I understand the idea that Dedmon could make a better starter (though there are issues with that that people constantly overlook)
    I'm pretty sure that issue is probably spacing since you were harping how LMA played better w/ D-Worst starting last season when Tim was out b/c Tim "couldn't space the floor" when it was LMA that was playing hesitant until 2nd half of last season.

    LMA didn't have issues playing w/ Robin Lopez who isn't exactly known for spacing the floor. Also, closing game w/ Patty/Dedmon hasn't actually hurt as subbing Porker w/ Patty basically mitigates whatever spacing was lost w/ Dedmon playing over Pau. Not to mention Dedmon is very good at pounding the offensive glass if nobody is blocking him out which is also what Robin Lopez to great success. Besides, Dedmon provides a PnR option w/ LMA spacing the floor instead of being a redundant space cadet like Pau.

    Pau is great to have when LMA is so shaky. Gasol has the upside of being able to be a legit second option in a playoff series. Makes no sense to want to wish that away with an injury.
    Pau should just come off the bench like Kanter where he would be less exposed against backups. In the postseason, teams could also expose the lack of spacing w/ Dedmon/Lee frontline just like Doc did when Kawhi was trying to get into the paint (basically had whoever was guarding Lee standing w/ one foot in the RA). If you pair Lee w/ Pau then that would mitigate the issue.

    LeBron had the same issue in the 2015 postseason after Love got hurt & they had to roll w/ the Mozgov/Tristan frontline which made it difficult to find driving lanes that he basically had to bulldoze his way into the paint especially against the Bulls even w/ Kyrie on the floor. (It's not surprising that Doc/Thibs have similar defensive philosophies:)

  4. #154
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    It's extremely tricky to almost impossible to stagger Leonard and Aldridge minutes and get one to play on the court all the time..unless you want to burn them by season end..overplaying them game by game, the spurs will have significant stretches where neither is on the court. It's just the way it is in the RS.

    Now, come playoff time when playing your superstar in Leonard and Your Allstar in Adridge...about 38 becomes the norm. And fatigue wont be as much of an issue because of the days rest...

    Pop know this..You can tell with his subs the last 3 weeks. It's just not possible to fully implement that in the RS if you want to make dure they dont overplay.
    Since Chinook is adamant that Pau can be a #2 option in the postseason then he should just anchor the second unit.

  5. #155
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    Murray with out a doubt is talented. Furthermore, the NBA today requires a lot of athletic players that can do everything. Murray still can't shoot, but maybe that will eventually get fixed. Besides, who knows if Simmons stays around after the season.

    Forbes is a really good shooter but has rarely seen any action. So despite losing Laprovitolla, there still is a log jam at the guard position.

    Even Bertans who has a lot more potential than these two, barely gets to play!

    Spurs just need to get the old guys several games off.

  6. #156
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Kanter is averaging 24/11 w/ 2 blocks per 36.

    He has a net rating of is +13, PER of 24 & TS of 61% while Pau is at +11, 55% & 20.

    They are both empty stats though as Kanter has an on/off number of -1.6 while Pau is at -10.6 & the main reason why the starters get butt ed on defense along w/ why LMA plays so passive.
    So coasting Pau is pretty much as good a Kanter? If only more Spurs had that floor.

    I'm pretty sure that issue is probably spacing since you were harping how LMA played better w/ D-Worst starting last season when Tim was out b/c Tim "couldn't space the floor" when it was LMA that was playing hesitant until 2nd half of last season.
    This doesn't make sense. Pau spacing the floor better than West did. If spacing is still an issue, it's because one of the wings is constantly in the paint. But even that's only a big deal because Pop won't run anything.

    LMA didn't have issues playing w/ Robin Lopez who isn't exactly known for spacing the floor. Also, closing game w/ Patty/Dedmon hasn't actually hurt as subbing Porker w/ Patty basically mitigates whatever spacing was lost w/ Dedmon playing over Pau. Not to mention Dedmon is very good at pounding the offensive glass if nobody is blocking him out which is also what Robin Lopez to great success. Besides, Dedmon provides a PnR option w/ LMA spacing the floor instead of being a redundant space cadet like Pau.
    Oh, so we're still on spacing. Nah, the issue is that Dedmon isn't very good on offense. He has to be fed, and Parker isn't good enough in the PnR to do that. Tony is much better at the PnP with its more forgiving passing angles. If you could trade Tony for a better-scoring guard, then yes, Dedmon would make more sense.

    Pau should just come off the bench like Kanter where he would be less exposed against backups. In the postseason, teams could also expose the lack of spacing w/ Dedmon/Lee frontline just like Doc did when Kawhi was trying to get into the paint (basically had whoever was guarding Lee standing w/ one foot in the RA). If you pair Lee w/ Pau then that would mitigate the issue.
    I'm very confused as to whether we are supposed to believe that Dedmon/Lee works or not. The narrative seems to flip every game. Anyway, I think the Spurs will either go small or play Gasol and LMA a ton in the playoffs as it is.

  7. #157
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Since Chinook is adamant that Pau can be a #2 option in the postseason then he should just anchor the second unit.
    I guess this is the start of another stupid meme.

  8. #158
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    I think those comparing Murray to the next Simmons are off the mark. Sure they are both athletic, but their games and skill sets are very different.

    Simmons isn't the type of creator Murray is. Simmons excels in the open the court off the ball on both ends. While Murray excels in the open and half court with the ball.

    Murray is more natural as a lead guard or point guard and is much quicker with the ball and has been noticablely having a tighter handle than he did in the Summer League ( which is a very good sign). At the same time, he has a much quicker release on his shot. Whereas Simmons has a slow and low release that he can't get off half the time.

    I'm very excited about Murray, being only 20 years old, he has elite size, length, quickness, speed and from the looks of it, he has an elite work ethic -- which is the most important thing. For a point guard, having all those strengths makes a damn exciting foundation that is very rare to find. The weaknesses, shooting & IQ, are very common for just about every 20 yr old who played in this league (they were common for Tony and Kobe) -- which will get better with time and maybe not a lot of time as his shooting stroke looks much better than it did just a year ago in WU.

    I think he'll be a more effective player than Simmons in just a year, just because he's a natural point guard and has strengths that give him such a huge edge at the position on both ends because of his size, speed and length. The only strength Simmons has at his position is athletic ability -- his size/length doesn't give him an edge like it does Murray.
    His first step is elite even for the NBA. Everything else he can learn while being on the Spurs.

  9. #159
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    I guess this is the start of another stupid meme.
    Are you still in line saying Murray will always have a broken jumpshot?

  10. #160
    ...a.k.a. mAtT!iC3 mudyez's Avatar
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    I agree with getting Murray more minutes thus cutting one of the PGs. I'd gone with cutting Forbes, as Nico simply gave us more of a possible playoff player (just as insurance and not big minutes, but I'd rather have him than Forbes on the court if need be).

    I just hope, we will get something out of the roster spot.

  11. #161
    Less is More Darius Bieber's Avatar
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    Hear me out, but I think the Spurs organizations could do some good things with Lance Stephenson.

  12. #162
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    So coasting Pau is pretty much as good a Kanter? If only more Spurs had that floor.
    Pau has no where the devastating impact Kanter has on offense & isn't a great defender himself.

    Kanter absolutely destroys teams in the paint, is unstoppable on PnRs (which creates gravity; if only OKC had shooters:) & can space the floor all the way to the 3 point line if needed. Pau is a jump shooting big (mostly mid-range so not as valuable as a true stretch 5) w/ an average post-up game whose elite ability (passing) is marginalized unless the offense is running through him. (Let's not act like he's being used like Boris 2.0 when D-Worst was racking up assist from the elbow)

    Kanter in the Spurs system would basically be David Lee if he had range all the way to the 3 pointing line & was a more devastating roll man/offensive rebounder. (As it is, Lee is outplaying Pau). Kanter isn't a passer but nor was Amar'e but that didn't stop him from be a devastating offensive force on PnRs. (Kanter doesn't have issues playing w/ a non-shooter like Dedmon as evident in the 2nd rd when he & Adams as a tandem absolutely killed the Spurs)

    Speight can space the floor & pound the offensive glass better than Pau so if you're going to use Pau as a floor spacer while vacuuming uncontested defensive rebounds on the other end then I'm not sure how you could compare him to Kanter. Kanter destroyed Lee this past postseason & wasn't exactly getting killed on defense against the Spurs (He was holding his own defensively that he got to play 30 minutes in the pivotal Gm 5 while Ibaka was sitting out the 4th quarter & basically was responsible for the sequence that won them the game where he had two put backs & blocked Tim at the end of the game)

    If Pau was even an average defender then you could have the case but this is just a case of where he's horrible at everything besides being an average rim protector. (Pau is '05-'06 Big Z status (http://bkref.com/tiny/SsFyG) unless he's playing point-center as the hub of the offense, which he isn't)

    Oh, so we're still on spacing. Nah, the issue is that Dedmon isn't very good on offense. He has to be fed, and Parker isn't good enough in the PnR to do that. Tony is much better at the PnP with its more forgiving passing angles. If you could trade Tony for a better-scoring guard, then yes, Dedmon would make more sense.
    Why in the would Dedmon have to play a 2-man game w/ Porker? (I just said he would be a PnR option)

    Porker can run his PnPs w/ Aldridge while Dedmon sets off ball screens/pounds the offensive glass which is what Robin Lopez did & guys like Tristan Thompson have been doing for years.

    As far as playing PnR w/ Dedmon, if only the Spurs had a guy called Patrick Mills who has been feeding Dedmon all season long.

    I'm very confused as to whether we are supposed to believe that Dedmon/Lee works or not. The narrative seems to flip every game. Anyway, I think the Spurs will either go small or play Gasol and LMA a ton in the playoffs as it is.
    The Dedmon/Lee tandem can be skimmed against in the postseason but it works fine now b/c teams aren't game planning for backup players in the regular season. (Doc is a guy that exposes mismatches which is why he's basically the only coach that has made the Dedmon/Lee frontline seem unplayable)

  13. #163
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Are you still in line saying Murray will always have a broken jumpshot?
    I"m pretty sure he's still in line w/ Kyle is the second best scorer on the team.

  14. #164
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Kawhitstorm with great points.... all around about Lee, Dedmon and Pau.
    Hopefully Pop makes adjustments and mixes guys up a little bit through the season so they get used to playing with each other. Though he will still go to Pau from what I have seen, but playoffs are a different matter.

  15. #165
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    I"m pretty sure he's still in line w/ Kyle is the second best scorer on the team.
    what?

  16. #166
    Veteran spursistan's Avatar
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    I guess Pop finally caved on bringing Bonner back
    That, or this might just be the first deportation notice by the Trump administration as retaliation for Pop anti-Donald stance, tbh.....

  17. #167
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    Patty/Marco averaged 15 minutes during the 2014 postseason run including garbage time. If Deron can play 12 rotation minutes consistently in the playoffs (that's what Cassell played on the '08 Celtics) then he can still have an impact & considering that Porker/Manu can pull a muscle any minute he would be a very valuable insurance.
    Agreed, but that's from the Spurs perspective. I was looking at it from his perspective.

    Casspi would be used in those situations as a small ball 4, but like Parsons he is athletic even if he's slow footed. He's not a statue type of small ball 4 like Novak.
    Yeah, whether a good defender or not, being able to physically guard a position(s), is valuable. Last season's Finals were a perfect example. Irving has a terrible defensive reputation and Smith and Jefferson have only a slightly better one, yet they all did a good enough job for them to be able to win.

    I think those comparing Murray to the next Simmons are off the mark. Sure they are both athletic, but their games and skill sets are very different.
    Different, but a close enough facsimile that, if the Spurs walk away from a Simmons offer sheet, I think it'll be in part because of Murray and the likelihood that they'd be an awkward pairing in the future.

  18. #168
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    I"m pretty sure he's still in line w/ Kyle is the second best scorer on the team.
    Secret weapon vs the warriettes.

  19. #169
    Gif-ted LakerHater's Avatar
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  20. #170
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    That's messed up. Don't ever wish a torn ACL on any Spur.
    Haven't numerous people here wished injury on TP? Hardly anyone said anything when it's been directed at Tony.

  21. #171
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    hmmm
    this is kind of sad. I was inclined to believe the waiver was in his favor bc he had options already.

  22. #172
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Murray averaging something like 16/5/6/1 in the dleague. Probably had to do it to show him some respect and not lose him later a la cojo

  23. #173
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Good review on Forbes and Murray recent games in the dleague:
    http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/...dleague-report

    Forbes is a very good shooter who was almost at 60% from 3 in the Dleague the past couple of games. He hasn't played nearly enough in the big team to deduce anything but his defensive numbers are poor even in the dleague and it's a problem if he's played as a wing.

    He reminds me of Seth Curry, both extremely undersized shooters... he may need to diversify his offensive game to be more like Seth who can put the ball on the floor and is a more versatile offensive player. Definitely just shooting is not enough..

    Murray has shown a lot of potential in the dleague but his shooting is pretty poor and he still has TO prone nights. However he's more familiar with the teams offensive concepts which has helped him some games.
    Forbes is basically 2016 Trajan Langdon

  24. #174
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Who is Laprotillova?

  25. #175
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Forbes is basically 2016 Trajan Langdon
    lol
    I don't know who that is.. I just looked it up in basketball reference... you go way way back.
    hats off to you.

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