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  1. #76
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    at all this picking and choosing of stats, particularly ones that are notorious for favoring big men in the post over mid-range and perimeter play

    lets throw it all out the window with this one simple stat

    15-16 spurs (67 wins)

    your hero kawhi had a ws/48 of .277
    boban had a ws/48 of .325

    boban was by far the best basketball player in the NBA apparently
    lol son. You can't use players that don't qualify on terms of minutes played. In 2011 Steve Novak had better OBPM and BPM than Dirk. The thing is, he played a Grand total of 18 minutes in 7 games.

    WS, BPM and VORP aren't "nitpicking" stats, son. They are actually the best indicators of a player's impact. Way more valuable than counting stats like PPG, APG, etc.

    as for dirk in 2011, the regular season wasnt the historic part of that run, it was the playoffs, which he still led the team in ws/48, BPM and VORP

    however whats interesting is mahinmi was right behind him in ws/48 by .001, while having a bpm of -8.4. yes, i believe that advanced stats in some cases can help tell a story of value that normal stats dont show, but they can also be equally flawed and inconsistent as well. and they still dont tell the story of a players actual skillset, which when it comes to scoring, dirk >>> kg and only a moron like yourself would try to argue
    Again, I don't know why you bring up irrelevant players without enough playing time to qualify, like Mahinmi.

    as for the 23ppg, that was KGs second best scoring season. so basically dirk had 9 seasons of scoring averages that were equal or greater than KGs 2nd best. so no, kg in his prime absolutely did not "put up the same scoring numbers" as dirk as you claimed
    Dirk's best 5 offensive seasons: 25.7 ppg and 2.7 apg.

    KG's best 5 offensive seasons: 23 ppg and 5.4 apg.

    Dirk is the better scorer while KG is the better passer and playmaker. Overall, I would say it's pretty even with a slight edge for Dirk on the offensive side. But then you consider all the other aspects of the game, and to me it's clear that KG is better overall. Not by far, but he is indeed better.

  2. #77
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    And who did Bos go to in the clutch? Bc it certainly wasn’t Garnett. They went to Pierce or Allen. Garnett was an afterthought in the crunch which basically sums up his career
    Who did the Spurs went in the clutch? First Manu and then Tony. Does that make Duncan any less of an all-time great? No, no it doesn't. Thanks for playing, next time come with a better argument. Bye.

  3. #78
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Who did the Spurs went in the clutch? First Manu and then Tony. Does that make Duncan any less of an all-time great? No, no it doesn't. Thanks for playing, next time come with a better argument. Bye.
    You're not even a Spurs fan are you? When did you start watching them? 2013? Bc that's when they went really started to go Tony Parker in the clutch The Spurs did go to Ginobili in the clutch no doubt but Timmy was there just as much in big moments.

    I mean besides Duncan having several game winners. The Spurs went to Duncan a lot. They gave him the ball every possession down the stretch for the 99 finals. Something I doubt you saw and he delivered. Duncan was the go to crunch time scorer in 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, and 04. He shared duties with Gino in 05 and 06. But 07 and 08 was more Tim. Off the top of my head Duncan has 2014 shot that sent the Spurs to the Finals. He hit the shot to give the Spurs the lead before the Fisher shot in 04. He hit the game tying 3 against Phoenix in 2008. He missed the game tying shot in game 7 2013 against the Heat but they went to him. He hit the game leading free throws to put the Spurs up 1 in game 7 in 2015. You could pretty much go back every post season (except 2011 and 2016) and you will see that the Spurs went to Duncan in the clutch, crunch time, to close out series, etc.

    I will now list all of Garnett's big playoff go to moments with the Wolves in the clutch: cricket cricket
    And with the Celtics he did have a game winner in the first round against the 39 win Hawks team. So there is that. You got me.

  4. #79
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You're not even a Spurs fan are you? When did you start watching them? 2013? Bc that's when they went really started to go Tony Parker in the clutch The Spurs did go to Ginobili in the clutch no doubt but Timmy was there just as much in big moments.

    I mean besides Duncan having several game winners. The Spurs went to Duncan a lot. They gave him the ball every possession down the stretch for the 99 finals. Something I doubt you saw and he delivered. Duncan was the go to crunch time scorer in 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, and 04. He shared duties with Gino in 05 and 06. But 07 and 08 was more Tim. Off the top of my head Duncan has 2014 shot that sent the Spurs to the Finals. He hit the shot to give the Spurs the lead before the Fisher shot in 04. He hit the game tying 3 against Phoenix in 2008. He missed the game tying shot in game 7 2013 against the Heat but they went to him. He hit the game leading free throws to put the Spurs up 1 in game 7 in 2015. You could pretty much go back every post season (except 2011 and 2016) and you will see that the Spurs went to Duncan in the clutch, crunch time, to close out series, etc.

    I will now list all of Garnett's big playoff go to moments with the Wolves in the clutch: cricket cricket
    And with the Celtics he did have a game winner in the first round against the 39 win Hawks team. So there is that. You got me.
    So, you are telling me Duncan was the go to guy in the clutch when the Spurs didn't have HoF guards? What a crazy concept. Guess what? The Wolves went to Garnett plenty in the clutch too.

    Not being the go to guy in the clutch doesn't mean you are not clearly and by far the team's best player. Duncan wasn't the Spurs go to player in the clutch for the Spurs past 2004. Shaq was never a go to guy player in the clutch for any of his teams either. Yet those guys were still pretty clearly their teams' best player. The same happens with KG and the 2008 Celtics. When you are a bigman and have HoF guards on your team, you are bound to be a secondary option in the clutch, tbh.

    Just for the of it, here are some of KG's clutch shots:




  5. #80
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    So, you are telling me Duncan was the go to guy in the clutch when the Spurs didn't have HoF guards? What a crazy concept. Guess what? The Wolves went to Garnett plenty in the clutch too.

    Not being the go to guy in the clutch doesn't mean you are not clearly and by far the team's best player. Duncan wasn't the Spurs go to player in the clutch for the Spurs past 2004. Shaq was never a go to guy player in the clutch for any of his teams either. Yet those guys were still pretty clearly their teams' best player. The same happens with KG and the 2008 Celtics. When you are a bigman and have HoF guards on your team, you are bound to be a secondary option in the clutch, tbh.

    Just for the of it, here are some of KG's clutch shots:



    Literally named like 5 shots after 2004 but I guess that doesn’t count for some reason. 2014 to send team to finals. 2013 they went to him to tie the game in game 7. He missed but they still went to him. 2008 he hit the 3 against Phoenix. Also hit a clutch shot against the Hornets that year. Spurs also went to Duncan in 2015 game 7 vs Clips where he got fouled and sunk both free throws to put them up by 1 with like 10
    seconds left in the series.

    And you just repeated my Atlanta shot. That doesn’t count. That’s not adding to the conversation. I gave you that shot. I literally told you about it and yet you still posted it as if to show me something new. Sad. Just sad. You know why you had to repeat that Atlanta shot? Bc Garnett doesn’t have any real moments in the playoffs. Hard to find clutch moments of Garnett isn’t it.

  6. #81
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Also I’m so sick of the excuses for Garnett being a ty franchise player. Bc that’s what he was. A ty franchise player. He’s a great #2 player but he’s not a franchise player. He literally has an entire career proving this. The Wolves were in the playoffs 8 times with Garnett leading the franchise. Here are the results
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    WCF 2004
    2005 missed playoffs
    2006 missed playoffs
    2007 missed playoffs.
    2004 was the anomaly not the rule. And every excuse has been made for Garnett except the actual truth.

    Excuse #1: He had really ty teammates. David Robinson (a known playoff shrinker) made it to the WCF with Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro as the starting back court. Dirk took a team who’s second beat player was Josh Howard to the finals. He also won a championship with Tyson ing Chandler as the second best player. Tim Duncan won a championship where he led the team in points, assists, rebounds, and blocks in the postseason. He averaged 1 point less than the next two top scorers COMBINED. I’m not saying that Garnett needed to win a chip in Minny but you can’t tell me that in 11 years you can lose in the first round 7 times, miss the playoffs 3 times, and make ONE WCF appearance and tell me he is a greater franchise player than Dirk. Or the second best PF of all time.

    2. He had ty coaching. Shaq had Del Harris and whoever the was the Orlando coach and made it out of the 1st round. Robinson has John Lucas. ing Lucas as a coach and made it out of the 1st round. Dirk had Avery Johnson who can’t coach worth and made it to the finals. Coaching matters to win a championship for sure but not to make it out of the first round ffs

    3. Minnesota has horrible luck. They got caught tampering. Starbury left them bc he wanted more money than Garnett. Marbury is and always will be a loser and never led a team to or really helped a team. They were better off losing him. And Joe Smith sucked. It was beyond stupid of the Wolves to tamper for him. But they didn’t really lose any picks of value for him. Yes 4 first rounders hurts but they didn’t lose any lottery picks. I think the best pick they lost was like the 18th pick. Not bad enough to cripple a franchise like it’s made out to be.

    Facts are that Dirk was a better player than Garnett. Dirk had all the same issues as Garnett, ( ty franchise, bad teammates, bad coach) but he overcame them. Garnett is not a top 20 player all time. Garnett didn’t do as a wolf and no amount of excuses can cover up the fact that he was a ty franchise player.

  7. #82
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Garnett played for like 20 years. He's bound to have a few clutch shots over 2 decades

    The fact of the matter is, he was steadily deferring to Wally Szczerbiak in Minnesota when he should have been closing out games the way superstars close out games. He is why they were a playoff team in Minnestoa, he is also why they were routinely, first round fodder.


    So, you are telling me Duncan was the go to guy in the clutch when the Spurs didn't have HoF guards? What a crazy concept. Guess what? The Wolves went to Garnett plenty in the clutch too.

    Not being the go to guy in the clutch doesn't mean you are not clearly and by far the team's best player. Duncan wasn't the Spurs go to player in the clutch for the Spurs past 2004. Shaq was never a go to guy player in the clutch for any of his teams either. Yet those guys were still pretty clearly their teams' best player. The same happens with KG and the 2008 Celtics. When you are a bigman and have HoF guards on your team, you are bound to be a secondary option in the clutch, tbh.

    Just for the of it, here are some of KG's clutch shots:




  8. #83
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    lol kg and clutch dont go together..20years in the league and he only has 2-3 good series, and ppl act like his played like that his whole career

    when its h2h matchups in the rs or playoffs against a superstar at his position, he disappears

  9. #84
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Also I’m so sick of the excuses for Garnett being a ty franchise player. Bc that’s what he was. A ty franchise player. He’s a great #2 player but he’s not a franchise player. He literally has an entire career proving this. The Wolves were in the playoffs 8 times with Garnett leading the franchise. Here are the results
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    WCF 2004
    2005 missed playoffs
    2006 missed playoffs
    2007 missed playoffs.
    2004 was the anomaly not the rule. And every excuse has been made for Garnett except the actual truth.

    Excuse #1: He had really ty teammates. David Robinson (a known playoff shrinker) made it to the WCF with Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro as the starting back court. Dirk took a team who’s second beat player was Josh Howard to the finals. He also won a championship with Tyson ing Chandler as the second best player. Tim Duncan won a championship where he led the team in points, assists, rebounds, and blocks in the postseason. He averaged 1 point less than the next two top scorers COMBINED. I’m not saying that Garnett needed to win a chip in Minny but you can’t tell me that in 11 years you can lose in the first round 7 times, miss the playoffs 3 times, and make ONE WCF appearance and tell me he is a greater franchise player than Dirk. Or the second best PF of all time.

    2. He had ty coaching. Shaq had Del Harris and whoever the was the Orlando coach and made it out of the 1st round. Robinson has John Lucas. ing Lucas as a coach and made it out of the 1st round. Dirk had Avery Johnson who can’t coach worth and made it to the finals. Coaching matters to win a championship for sure but not to make it out of the first round ffs

    3. Minnesota has horrible luck. They got caught tampering. Starbury left them bc he wanted more money than Garnett. Marbury is and always will be a loser and never led a team to or really helped a team. They were better off losing him. And Joe Smith sucked. It was beyond stupid of the Wolves to tamper for him. But they didn’t really lose any picks of value for him. Yes 4 first rounders hurts but they didn’t lose any lottery picks. I think the best pick they lost was like the 18th pick. Not bad enough to cripple a franchise like it’s made out to be.

    Facts are that Dirk was a better player than Garnett. Dirk had all the same issues as Garnett, ( ty franchise, bad teammates, bad coach) but he overcame them. Garnett is not a top 20 player all time. Garnett didn’t do as a wolf and no amount of excuses can cover up the fact that he was a ty franchise player.
    To be fair, the 95 Spurs met a young Lakers team in the 2nd round; talented team but not really battle tested except for a few veterans

  10. #85
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    To be fair, the 95 Spurs met a young Lakers team in the 2nd round; talented team but not really battle tested except for a few veterans
    But they still made it out of the first round was my main point

  11. #86
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    lol son. You can't use players that don't qualify on terms of minutes played. In 2011 Steve Novak had better OBPM and BPM than Dirk. The thing is, he played a Grand total of 18 minutes in 7 games.

    WS, BPM and VORP aren't "nitpicking" stats, son. They are actually the best indicators of a player's impact. Way more valuable than counting stats like PPG, APG, etc.



    Again, I don't know why you bring up irrelevant players without enough playing time to qualify, like Mahinmi.



    Dirk's best 5 offensive seasons: 25.7 ppg and 2.7 apg.

    KG's best 5 offensive seasons: 23 ppg and 5.4 apg.

    Dirk is the better scorer while KG is the better passer and playmaker. Overall, I would say it's pretty even with a slight edge for Dirk on the offensive side. But then you consider all the other aspects of the game, and to me it's clear that KG is better overall. Not by far, but he is indeed better.
    point is, you are using stats to back up a guy whos career was defined by stats. he has exceptional stats. but they dont account for his clear shortcomings, which was poor performance in the clutch, limited scoring skillset, and questionable leadership outside of a bunch of screaming and crying to show how much he cares. being heavily emotional and hating losing doesn't make you a good leader. overcoming weaknesses as a player and coming through for your team when they need you most are much more important qualities for a leader, neither of which he did much of through his career.

    i think kobesachilles may be overstating his shortcomings a bit, as many of his playoff losses were simply a matter of losing to a clearly superior team. but there is plenty of truth to what he said, dude frequently crumbled in the clutch, and if he was more aggressive or had a stronger scoring skillset, perhaps they win one or two of those series, or at the very least being much more compe ive in many of the ones they lost. they certainly had no business being swept by the mavs in 02. and most of the truly great players have led their team to an upset or two in their career. dirk definitely did on several occasions, Utah in 01, SA in 06, SA in 09, LA in 11
    Last edited by Neo.; 06-23-2020 at 10:48 AM.

  12. #87
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    But they still made it out of the first round was my main point
    Against the Nuggets

    KG lost to better teams than the Wolves (I coud be wrong, I haven't googled it tbh)

  13. #88
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Against the Nuggets

    KG lost to better teams than the Wolves (I coud be wrong, I haven't googled it tbh)
    You’re missing the point. Had KG been a true franchise player he would’ve led the Wolves to a better REGULAR season record which gives you an easier match up. But KG the best he did was 2004. Besides that ONE year the best he did was the 5th seed (once) and 7th or 8th seed the other years. One of those years he got swept by Dirk, who averaged over 30 against his ass. My point of bringing up DRob was to compare KG to another player who was seen as a playoff choker except that even Robinson did better in the playoffs than KG. The Spurs made it to the second round numerous times.

  14. #89
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Ah ok ok

  15. #90
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    You’re missing the point. Had KG been a true franchise player he would’ve led the Wolves to a better REGULAR season record which gives you an easier match up. But KG the best he did was 2004. Besides that ONE year the best he did was the 5th seed (once) and 7th or 8th seed the other years. One of those years he got swept by Dirk, who averaged over 30 against his ass. My point of bringing up DRob was to compare KG to another player who was seen as a playoff choker except that even Robinson did better in the playoffs than KG. The Spurs made it to the second round numerous times.
    this

    or had he possessed more offensive skill or a more aggressive scoring mindset, he would have been more useful in clutch situations, likely leading to more victories, more compe ive series, and probably a couple more 2nd round appearances

    for a big man like him, whos offense consisted mainly of high% shots (low post-ups, putbacks, and mid-range pick-and-pop), its a little odd that he struggled so much to shoot 50% on 2pt shots (with his career average being helped from his years in boston where he had so little attention that he literally didnt have to do anything except hit wide open jumpers and putbacks). he didn't really have to take difficult shots much in his career, and the times he did, he was mostly terrible at it, unlike guys like timmy and dirk who had some go-to shots they could hit against tough defenses

  16. #91
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Literally named like 5 shots after 2004 but I guess that doesn’t count for some reason. 2014 to send team to finals. 2013 they went to him to tie the game in game 7. He missed but they still went to him. 2008 he hit the 3 against Phoenix. Also hit a clutch shot against the Hornets that year. Spurs also went to Duncan in 2015 game 7 vs Clips where he got fouled and sunk both free throws to put them up by 1 with like 10
    seconds left in the series.

    And you just repeated my Atlanta shot. That doesn’t count. That’s not adding to the conversation. I gave you that shot. I literally told you about it and yet you still posted it as if to show me something new. Sad. Just sad. You know why you had to repeat that Atlanta shot? Bc Garnett doesn’t have any real moments in the playoffs. Hard to find clutch moments of Garnett isn’t it.
    5 shots in a 12 years span. What's that suppossed to prove? Garnett also had his share of clutch shots taken with the Celtics in a much shorter time span, tbh. Just because we can't remember every single one like we do with Spurs related material, it doesn't mean it didn't existed. In any case, with the 2 shots I showed while he was on the Celtics, he already matches your 5 in 12 years that Duncan took. KG played only 5 postseasons with the Celtics.
    Last edited by DAF86; 06-23-2020 at 05:34 PM.

  17. #92
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Garnett played for like 20 years. He's bound to have a few clutch shots over 2 decades

    The fact of the matter is, he was steadily deferring to Wally Szczerbiak in Minnesota when he should have been closing out games the way superstars close out games. He is why they were a playoff team in Minnestoa, he is also why they were routinely, first round fodder.
    I guess Shaq should have been closing out games like Superstars do instead of deferring to guys like Nick Anderson. Dirk > Shaq

    See how re ed this "clutch" argument is? It seems as if you guys would hang on everything to try and make your case, tbh.

  18. #93
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Also I’m so sick of the excuses for Garnett being a ty franchise player. Bc that’s what he was. A ty franchise player. He’s a great #2 player but he’s not a franchise player. He literally has an entire career proving this. The Wolves were in the playoffs 8 times with Garnett leading the franchise. Here are the results
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    Lost 1st round
    WCF 2004
    2005 missed playoffs
    2006 missed playoffs
    2007 missed playoffs.
    2004 was the anomaly not the rule. And every excuse has been made for Garnett except the actual truth.

    Excuse #1: He had really ty teammates. David Robinson (a known playoff shrinker) made it to the WCF with Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro as the starting back court. Dirk took a team who’s second beat player was Josh Howard to the finals. He also won a championship with Tyson ing Chandler as the second best player. Tim Duncan won a championship where he led the team in points, assists, rebounds, and blocks in the postseason. He averaged 1 point less than the next two top scorers COMBINED. I’m not saying that Garnett needed to win a chip in Minny but you can’t tell me that in 11 years you can lose in the first round 7 times, miss the playoffs 3 times, and make ONE WCF appearance and tell me he is a greater franchise player than Dirk. Or the second best PF of all time.

    2. He had ty coaching. Shaq had Del Harris and whoever the was the Orlando coach and made it out of the 1st round. Robinson has John Lucas. ing Lucas as a coach and made it out of the 1st round. Dirk had Avery Johnson who can’t coach worth and made it to the finals. Coaching matters to win a championship for sure but not to make it out of the first round ffs

    3. Minnesota has horrible luck. They got caught tampering. Starbury left them bc he wanted more money than Garnett. Marbury is and always will be a loser and never led a team to or really helped a team. They were better off losing him. And Joe Smith sucked. It was beyond stupid of the Wolves to tamper for him. But they didn’t really lose any picks of value for him. Yes 4 first rounders hurts but they didn’t lose any lottery picks. I think the best pick they lost was like the 18th pick. Not bad enough to cripple a franchise like it’s made out to be.

    Facts are that Dirk was a better player than Garnett. Dirk had all the same issues as Garnett, ( ty franchise, bad teammates, bad coach) but he overcame them. Garnett is not a top 20 player all time. Garnett didn’t do as a wolf and no amount of excuses can cover up the fact that he was a ty franchise player.
    He's such a great #2 player that he won a championship as the best player on his team.

  19. #94
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    point is, you are using stats to back up a guy whos career was defined by stats. he has exceptional stats. but they dont account for his clear shortcomings, which was poor performance in the clutch, limited scoring skillset, and questionable leadership outside of a bunch of screaming and crying to show how much he cares. being heavily emotional and hating losing doesn't make you a good leader. overcoming weaknesses as a player and coming through for your team when they need you most are much more important qualities for a leader, neither of which he did much of through his career.

    i think kobesachilles may be overstating his shortcomings a bit, as many of his playoff losses were simply a matter of losing to a clearly superior team. but there is plenty of truth to what he said, dude frequently crumbled in the clutch, and if he was more aggressive or had a stronger scoring skillset, perhaps they win one or two of those series, or at the very least being much more compe ive in many of the ones they lost. they certainly had no business being swept by the mavs in 02. and most of the truly great players have led their team to an upset or two in their career. dirk definitely did on several occasions, Utah in 01, SA in 06, SA in 09, LA in 11
    I would argue that KG's biggest strength had nothing to do with stats: being an elite defensive anchor and quarterback. People underrated the importance of having an elite defensive bigman that is vocal and directs the entire defense of a team by telling his teammates how to move and where to be.

  20. #95
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You’re missing the point. Had KG been a true franchise player he would’ve led the Wolves to a better REGULAR season record which gives you an easier match up. But KG the best he did was 2004. Besides that ONE year the best he did was the 5th seed (once) and 7th or 8th seed the other years. One of those years he got swept by Dirk, who averaged over 30 against his ass. My point of bringing up DRob was to compare KG to another player who was seen as a playoff choker except that even Robinson did better in the playoffs than KG. The Spurs made it to the second round numerous times.
    Are you folks serious? For years, the best Garnett had to work with was Wally ing Szcerbiakghdgdhdk (or however that guy is called). On the toughest conference of all time (the early to mid 2000's West). It is almost a miracle the Wolves were a playoffs regular, tbh. Once he got a little help (and by "little", I mean literally "a little": past prime Sam alien looking mother er Casell and almost washed up Latrell Sprewel) he made it all the way to WCF.

    BTW, "unclutch" Garnett pulled a 30-20 game in game 7 to get to that point.


  21. #96
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I guess Shaq should have been closing out games like Superstars do instead of deferring to guys like Nick Anderson. Dirk > Shaq

    See how re ed this "clutch" argument is? It seems as if you guys would hang on everything to try and make your case, tbh.
    literally stupid because the offense frequently still ran through Shaq in the clutch, and he was frequently ranked among the top "clutch" scorers in the league because he was so productive. you seem to think buzzer beating game winners are the only clutch shot. they arent.

    I would argue that KG's biggest strength had nothing to do with stats: being an elite defensive anchor and quarterback. People underrated the importance of having an elite defensive bigman that is vocal and directs the entire defense of a team by telling his teammates how to move and where to be.
    i dont disagree, but his minnesota teams were much more successful offensively than defensively.

    Are you folks serious? For years, the best Garnett had to work with was Wally ing Szcerbiakghdgdhdk (or however that guy is called). On the toughest conference of all time (the early to mid 2000's West). It is almost a miracle the Wolves were a playoffs regular, tbh. Once he got a little help (and by "little", I mean literally "a little": past prime Sam alien looking mother er Casell and almost washed up Latrell Sprewel) he made it all the way to WCF.
    literally untrue except for a year or two. and wally made an all-star team in the west. he was no slouch of a player. they regularly had very solid squads until after the WCF year.

    BTW, "unclutch" Garnett pulled a 30-20 game in game 7 to get to that point.

    lol a career as long as his, and this is about the only truly memorable game where he put his team on his back

    a great performance no question. but these werent the norm for him. it was more of the anomaly.

  22. #97
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    literally stupid because the offense frequently still ran through Shaq in the clutch, and he was frequently ranked among the top "clutch" scorers in the league because he was so productive. you seem to think buzzer beating game winners are the only clutch shot. they arent.



    i dont disagree, but his minnesota teams were much more successful offensively than defensively.



    literally untrue except for a year or two. and wally made an all-star team in the west. he was no slouch of a player. they regularly had very solid squads until after the WCF year.



    lol a career as long as his, and this is about the only truly memorable game where he put his team on his back

    a great performance no question. but these werent the norm for him. it was more of the anomaly.
    Garnett has a career average of 18.2 ppg and 10.7 rpg in the playoffs.

    For comparisson's sake: Duncan, a similar style of player and one who was never acussed of not being clutch or not showing up for the playoffs, has a career average of 19 ppg and 10.8 rpg.

    Garnett did just fine, individually, in the playoffs. He just never played in a good enough team so he lost more often than not, therefore folks started this choker narrative. Kinda like Lebron in Cleveland. The same fame Dirk had prior to 2011.
    Last edited by DAF86; 06-23-2020 at 07:54 PM.

  23. #98
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    5 shots in a 12 years span. What's that suppossed to prove? Garnett also had his share of clutch shots taken with the Celtics in a much shorter time span, tbh. Just because we can't remember every single one like we do with Spurs related material, it doesn't mean it didn't existed. In any case, with the 2 shots I showed while he was on the Celtics, he already matches your 5 in 12 years that Duncan took. KG played only 5 postseasons with the Celtics.
    That's exactly what that means.

    Where does Eric Dampier rank in your all time center list? top 100? 200? Probably not.
    Where does Josh Howard rank in your SF list? What about Devin Harris as a point guard? Those were the bums Dirk took to the finals. You complain about Wally but Dirk had equally ty teammates and took them waaay farther than Garnett did as a timberwolve. You just keep getting on and back up your stuff with zero evidence. The fact is that Dirk TWICE led a team to the finals without another all star on his team. He won the second one. How is Garnett the better franchise player when he never had the success as Dirk.

    So Garnett led the C's? Not Pierce? Garnett was always the best player on the C's? 2008 is arguable between him and Pierce. 2009 he got hurt and by 2010 he was definitely not the best player on the Celtics team. Btw Garnett shot 37% in game 2 of the 2008 Finals and 28% in game 3. He had a better game 4 where he scored 18 in a balanced team win. But he followed it up with 13 points in game 5. He did step up in game 6 and was a monster in the 1st half. He helped blow the out of the Lakers and that game was never even close thanks to him.

    The fact is that you are talking out of your ass with Garnett. Comparing 2 game clutch moments to 5 and calling it the same thing because of what percentage? Well yeah I suppose if your just get rid of Duncan's 99,01,02,03,04 seasons then yes Garnett has the same percentage as Timmy. But you know that makes it 10/18 for Duncan which is 55% of the time the team went to him in crunch time. I mean what kind of idiot says Garnett is just as clutch as Tim Duncan. Beyond stupid. Take away your fan card. You don't know about the NBA hoss and apparently don't know about your own damn team

  24. #99
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Garnett has a career average of 18.2 ppg and 10.7 rpg in the playoffs.

    For comparisson's sake: Duncan, a similar style of player and one who was never acussed of not being clutch or not showing up for the playoffs, has a career average of 19 ppg and 10.8 rpg.

    Garnett did just fine, individually, in the playoffs. He just never played in a good enough team so he lost more often than not, therefore folks started this choker narrative. Kinda like Lebron in Cleveland. The same fame Dirk had prior to 2011.
    Nothing like them. At BEST you can say Kevin made it out of the 1st round twice as the man and 2008 I could argue he wasn't the man and Pierce was. Both Lebron and Dirk made it out of the 1st round multiple times as the man. Lebron also never missed the playoffs in his prime like Kevin did. And Dirk I think missed it in 2013 once when he was still kinda relevant but not really in his peak. You can only compare it really to Tmac.

    Duncan played nothing like Garnett which is how I know you never saw the Wolves play. Duncan was bigger and stronger than Kevin and played only in the post. Garnett had some post moves but was easy to move out of the box and liked to settle for jumpers. Kevin had no go to move at the end of games. he had no killer instinct. His stats look good because he is a good player but he isn't a take over player. When he should be scoring he rebounds. When he should be taking over he defers to Wally. Duncan has way more playoff games than Garnett which is the only reason why the stats are close. It's easy to play great for 3 games as you're getting swept by the Mavericks (something he didn't do btw as Kevin was ty in game 2), it's much harder playing great in later rounds and more brutal games. News flash, the compe ion gets harder the farther along you get, which I know Kevin Garnett didn't really know anything about that, so you can't tell me just because he averaged 25 points and 13 rebounds a game in 3 whole games in round one that means he would average that in round 2, CF, and the Finals. It's a ridiculous statement

  25. #100
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    That's exactly what that means.

    Where does Eric Dampier rank in your all time center list? top 100? 200? Probably not.
    Where does Josh Howard rank in your SF list? What about Devin Harris as a point guard? Those were the bums Dirk took to the finals. You complain about Wally but Dirk had equally ty teammates and took them waaay farther than Garnett did as a timberwolve. You just keep getting on and back up your stuff with zero evidence. The fact is that Dirk TWICE led a team to the finals without another all star on his team. He won the second one. How is Garnett the better franchise player when he never had the success as Dirk.

    So Garnett led the C's? Not Pierce? Garnett was always the best player on the C's? 2008 is arguable between him and Pierce. 2009 he got hurt and by 2010 he was definitely not the best player on the Celtics team. Btw Garnett shot 37% in game 2 of the 2008 Finals and 28% in game 3. He had a better game 4 where he scored 18 in a balanced team win. But he followed it up with 13 points in game 5. He did step up in game 6 and was a monster in the 1st half. He helped blow the out of the Lakers and that game was never even close thanks to him.

    The fact is that you are talking out of your ass with Garnett. Comparing 2 game clutch moments to 5 and calling it the same thing because of what percentage? Well yeah I suppose if your just get rid of Duncan's 99,01,02,03,04 seasons then yes Garnett has the same percentage as Timmy. But you know that makes it 10/18 for Duncan which is 55% of the time the team went to him in crunch time. I mean what kind of idiot says Garnett is just as clutch as Tim Duncan. Beyond stupid. Take away your fan card. You don't know about the NBA hoss and apparently don't know about your own damn team
    Your entire argument is based on the idea that Garnett wasn't the go to guy in the clutch to try and sell the narrative that he wasn't clearly the Celtics' best player in 2008, and I'm the one getting on with zero evidence?

    That's rich son. Even the other guys that are on the Dirk > KG side of the discussion agreed that Garnett was the Celtics' best player in 2008. You know who else agrees with this? The MVP voting list of that year that had Garnett at 3rd in the entire ing league.

    Look, you can think Dirk > KG all you want. It's pretty much a wash in my book. But don't come here trying to act like I'm not providing sound evidence while you come up with primary school level arguments like " but he doesn't take the last shot ".
    Last edited by DAF86; 06-23-2020 at 11:32 PM.

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