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  1. #701
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    Is it not common knowledge that NBA teams only have 15 roster spots (plus two way contracts) while NFL rosters carry 53 players?

    Of course 2nd and 3rd and even 4th and 5th rounds picks from the NFL draft have a higher success rate than 2nd round NBA picks.

    There are nearly 4 times as many NFL roster spots than NBA roster spots in a given season. And the turnover rate is greater too because the average NFL career is shorter than an average NBA career.

    Why on earth would you compare 2nd round drafted NBA players to day 2 drafted NFl players?

  2. #702
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    out of all the double digit amount of 2nd round draft and stash eurotrash padawans in the Popovich era, literally 1 of them paid off. The others all fizzled in the NBA, stayed overseas, or had to be traded for miscellaneous reasons

    compare that with day 2 picks in the NFL and rate of success.

    also the Spurs would still have the 2003 championship with Steve Smith playing those backup-Jackson minutes instead of Manu. And in 2014 he was an afterthought, the 5th best player on the team. Also Manu cost the Spurs Jackson and who knows if Jackson would be as good as Manu in 2005, he definitely would have been at least as good as Manu in 2007 to win us that le and also in 2004 Manu was still very green and Jackson's replacement was an incompetent turkish piece of who couldn't shoot or score or play defense.
    I’m not exactly sure what you meant by paid off. But having a HoF let in the second round is a home run. And there were about five or six second round draft and stash players.

    As for Steve smith, did you see the guy play? He was beyond done at that point. There is no way the spurs would get past the lakers without manu to just put in some decent minutes. Smith would be hemorrhaging points.

    2014 manu was pivotal. He was a 15ppg or so scorer in the playoffs and was the PG in the game. Without manu the spurs wouldn’t be able to get past Mavs in the first round.

    Seriously, what do you expect? For the spurs to draft an entire starting lineup in the second round? Name one single team better at drafting in the second round than the spurs in the last 25 years. Nuggets with jokic. Who else?

  3. #703
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    completely re ed, he was arguably the true MVP of that series, every time he came in, it would be a close game or miami would be a little ahead, and suddenly the spurs go on a run, mostly spearheaded by his playmaking. he was ridiculously vital to that team, since kawhi was not (and still isnt) a strong playmaker


    Leonard was easily the best player on the team, arguably on both ends of the court. TP was still the highest scorer, Duncan was still an All-Star level force in the paint on both ends, and even Manu himself admitted that LDN was better than him. Jackson had too much ego and couldn't admit that LDN was better than him so he got kicked off the team and missed out on the championship TP "it's the big boss decision"

  4. #704
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Not a chance. Smith was a horrendous defensive turnstile and couldn't create for himself offensively. And no way the Spurs were going to run him in the post instead of dumping it to Duncan there.
    To be fair, Smith was an above average defender for his career, even for his era.... but when the '02-03 season began and Smith got back from his injury that kept him out the first two games of that championship season, it was clear that Smith wasn't the same solid player as he was in the 2002 season or years prior. The Spurs started that season 19-13 and that was largely due to Smith being a liability, no backup point guard due to Claxton being out the majority of the year (I was actually at the game Claxton tore up his arm, the inaugural SBC Center game, game 3 of 82) - the replacement was Anthony Goldwire and he was awful, forcing Steve Kerr to play too many minutes and he was terrible on defense, and Danny Ferry still getting too many minutes (it was the Admiral's last year and he missed a TON of time that year) and being a liability like prime Bonner because Popovich hadn't fully discovered that Kevin Willis still had plenty left in the tank at that point. Once Popovich wisened up and actually decided that Jackson and Willis should play ahead of Smith and Ferry, and that Manu was a competent backup PG when not injured.... we started to actually consistently win games and ended up 60-22 tied with Dallas with the tiebreaker and even got to tank the last game of the season because Dallas needed to win to stay ahead of Sacramento and we didn't.

    The Main reason the Spurs won the championship in 2002-03 though was Tim Duncan and no one else but Tim Duncan. The GOAT. He made up for a ton of other deficiencies. Robinson's injuries, Willis's age, Parker's inconsistency, "Trick Or Treat Malik" Rose, Bowen being a one trick pony on offense, Jackson and Manu being young and inconsistent, etc.

    Steve Smith would be considered a lockdown defender for today's NBA standards, though. Today's gasoline and baby formula shortage is nothing compared to the current shortage of defensive talent in the NBA.
    Last edited by Millennial_Messiah; 05-17-2022 at 10:06 AM.

  5. #705
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    To be fair, Smith was an above average defender for his career, even for his era.... but when the '02-03 season began and Smith got back from his injury that kept him out the first two games of that championship season, it was clear that Smith wasn't the same solid player as he was in the 2002 season or years prior. The Spurs started that season 19-13 and that was largely due to Smith being a liability, no backup point guard due to Claxton being out the majority of the year (I was actually at the game Claxton tore up his arm, the inaugural SBC Center game, game 3 of 82) - the replacement was Anthony Goldwire and he was awful, forcing Steve Kerr to play too many minutes and he was terrible on defense, and Danny Ferry still getting too many minutes (it was the Admiral's last year and he missed a TON of time that year) and being a liability like prime Bonner because Popovich hadn't fully discovered that Kevin Willis still had plenty left in the tank at that point. Once Popovich wisened up and actually decided that Jackson and Willis should play ahead of Smith and Ferry, and that Manu was a competent backup PG when not injured.... we started to actually consistently win games and ended up 60-22 tied with Dallas with the tiebreaker and even got to tank the last game of the season because Dallas needed to win to stay ahead of Sacramento and we didn't.

    The Main reason the Spurs won the championship in 2002-03 though was Tim Duncan and no one else but Tim Duncan. The GOAT. He made up for a ton of other deficiencies. Robinson's injuries, Willis's age, Parker's inconsistency, "Trick Or Treat Malik" Rose, Bowen being a one trick pony on offense, Jackson and Manu being young and inconsistent, etc.

    Steve Smith would be considered a lockdown defender for today's NBA standards, though. Today's gasoline and baby formula shortage is nothing compared to the current shortage of defensive talent in the NBA.
    What are you talking about? Smith was a horrible defender in 01-02. I remember an Express News article that year where David Robinson was raving about how great Duncan and Bowen were defensively as well as Malik Rose and Charles Smith and then when it came to Steve Smith David said he was really good at calling for help. Smith was an even worse turnstile than Derek Anderson was the year before. Couldn't move his feet at all and made Brent Barry look like Artest defensively.

  6. #706
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Smith was a horrible defender in 01-02. I remember an Express News article that year where David Robinson was raving about how great Duncan and Bowen were defensively as well as Malik Rose and Charles Smith and then when it came to Steve Smith David said he was really good at calling for help. Smith was an even worse turnstile than Derek Anderson was the year before. Couldn't move his feet at all and made Brent Barry look like Artest defensively.
    Yeah he was ass

    The media were saying he was one of the best perimeter defenders when he was with the Atlanta Hawks
    anything to make MJ look good I guess

  7. #707
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Smith was a horrible defender in 01-02. I remember an Express News article that year where David Robinson was raving about how great Duncan and Bowen were defensively as well as Malik Rose and Charles Smith and then when it came to Steve Smith David said he was really good at calling for help. Smith was an even worse turnstile than Derek Anderson was the year before. Couldn't move his feet at all and made Brent Barry look like Artest defensively.
    no, but, Smith wasn't the core strength of the defense. Defense was very up and down in '01-02. But it wasn't just Smith. Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter and Danny Ferry were all awful on defense (and of course TP, but you forgive him because he's a rookie and a point guard) and it was clear we needed more size and defense on the wings. Anderson didn't cut it either; he was a good 3 & D guy against average SG's but he was just too small and weak to guard Kobe. Ergo, enter Bowen.

    Malik Rose was trick or treat on defense. His best skills were flopping taking a charge and "pulling the chair out" in the post getting less than stellar post players to commit a turnover. But Rose always folded like a lawn chair against the big boys. He was a career overachiever though being a little less than NBA-talented but made a decent career for himself despite limited skills. He was what DeJuan Blair should have been if he had actually got off his lazy ass and tried to make a career for himself.

    The 01-02 team got off to a hot start (20-4) but were very up-and-down the rest of the year. Both on offense and defense. We'd win a game 81-74, win a game 120-113, then lose a game 77-80, then lose a game 109-119.
    Last edited by Millennial_Messiah; 05-17-2022 at 03:05 PM.

  8. #708
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    no, but, Smith wasn't the core strength of the defense. Defense was very up and down in '01-02. But it wasn't just Smith. Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter and Danny Ferry were all awful on defense (and of course TP, but you forgive him because he's a rookie and a point guard) and it was clear we needed more size and defense on the wings. Anderson didn't cut it either; he was a good 3 & D guy against average SG's but he was just too small and weak to guard Kobe. Ergo, enter Bowen.

    Malik Rose was trick or treat on defense. His best skills were flopping taking a charge and "pulling the chair out" in the post getting less than stellar post players to commit a turnover. But Rose always folded like a lawn chair against the big boys.

    The 01-02 team got off to a hot start (20-4) but were very up-and-down the rest of the year. Both on offense and defense. We'd win a game 81-74, win a game 120-113, then lose a game 77-80, then lose a game 109-119.
    Smith was the core weakness of the defense. And he was offensively too outside of starting the season red hot from the three point line.

  9. #709
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Smith was the core weakness of the defense. And he was offensively too outside of starting the season red hot from the three point line.
    Hence he got benched for an objectively better player in Jackson, not until the Sonics road game on Jan. 8th, 2003... he talks about that game all the time in his memoirs... Jackson who I called for to have more playing time in 2002, but he was effectively redshirted by Poop that year because of muh "get over yerself"..... maybe we could have pushed the LAL to 7 or even won that series in '02 with an experienced Stephen Jackson instead of Smith and Porter, Daniels, etc

    people will say that the 2003 season was turned around by the (inaugural) RRT or the Mavericks choking, but really the turning point which got us the championship was starting Jax and benching Smitty.

  10. #710
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    LMAO no Smart and Horford in game 1?

  11. #711
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Have to give Heat organization credit they just hang in there despite only one quasi superstar but are very well coached. Boston still a threat but not surprised if Heat are in finals again.

  12. #712
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Klay looks washed out there

  13. #713
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    So which game does Doncic get hurt in? Thinking game 2 myself.

  14. #714
    faggy opinion + certainty Mark Celibate's Avatar
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    well this series is over IMO. Didn't want to write them off, but I knew it would be an uphill battle since they're playing a composed team with championship pedigree as opposed to the two mentally weak frontrunning teams they had played prior. There's no stiff at the center position this round either for them to expose in the pick and roll

  15. #715
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    The Suns really suck lmao

  16. #716
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    everything about this game came down the Mavs role players. they missed the wide open stuff the first half. second half the warriors didn't even guard them and just packed the paint and played the lanes, leading to the turnovers. and they still missed despite literally not being defended.

    hit open 3s and everything is resolved. if they do, Mavs win the series. impossible for Luka, brunson or dinwiddie to do anything more if they get trapped and face 2 weakside help defenders every single drive.

  17. #717
    my teammates suck Luka Doncic's Avatar
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    well this series is over IMO. Didn't want to write them off, but I knew it would be an uphill battle since they're playing a composed team with championship pedigree as opposed to the two mentally weak frontrunning teams they had played prior. There's no stiff at the center position this round either for them to expose in the pick and roll
    Warriors had extra rest, and the Mavs had a Game 7 hangover. You won’t steal two in San Francisco right off the bat. Mavs are fine.

    ”Everybody acting tough when they up!”

  18. #718
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Warriors had extra rest, and the Mavs had a Game 7 hangover. You won’t steal two in San Francisco right off the bat. Mavs are fine.

    ”Everybody acting tough when they up!”
    That's what I saw out there. It was evident in the first quarter.

  19. #719
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    That's what I saw out there. It was evident in the first quarter.
    The problem being if you lose tomorrow night of that age old bromide of either of 2 eventualities:::win 4 in-a-row, or, a Game 7 in San Francisco.

  20. #720
    ......................... mystargtr34's Avatar
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    everything about this game came down the Mavs role players. they missed the wide open stuff the first half. second half the warriors didn't even guard them and just packed the paint and played the lanes, leading to the turnovers. and they still missed despite literally not being defended.

    hit open 3s and everything is resolved. if they do, Mavs win the series. impossible for Luka, brunson or dinwiddie to do anything more if they get trapped and face 2 weakside help defenders every single drive.
    Pretty much. At one point they were 3-21 on threes when I looked up at the scoreboard. Finished 11-48 for 23%. As you said this series will come down to the Mavs making their open 3’s. That will also open up the paint for Luka.

  21. #721
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Pretty much. At one point they were 3-21 on threes when I looked up at the scoreboard. Finished 11-48 for 23%. As you said this series will come down to the Mavs making their open 3’s. That will also open up the paint for Luka.
    they dont even have to shoot exceptionally well. if they just shoot between 35-40% on 3s, then thats an extra 20-25 points, as well as probably around 10 less points for the opponent just off of the fastbreaks and easy buckets from the misses, and its a dallas victory

    most games arent that simple, but last nights was. dallas missed a bunch of wide open shots, golden state adjusted to take full advantage of it, and it led to a loss.

  22. #722
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    they dont even have to shoot exceptionally well. if they just shoot between 35-40% on 3s, then thats an extra 20-25 points, as well as probably around 10 less points for the opponent just off of the fastbreaks and easy buckets from the misses, and its a dallas victory

    most games arent that simple, but last nights was. dallas missed a bunch of wide open shots, golden state adjusted to take full advantage of it, and it led to a loss.
    Those (impossible) shots by Curry are back breakers and mind ers. They stagger the visitors, albeit but a second, but affect tremendously. He's not as "impersonal" as Ginobilli was with his, but damn near as effective.

    Green comes to play every- ing-second. That wears on a team. & he knows it.

  23. #723
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    Generally, I liked what I saw from the Mavs as far as scheme and defense. But when you live by the 3 you are going to lose some games like that. I think Mavs in 6 but it's going to be a battle.

  24. #724
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Used to like Chuck and Shaq. Never have liked Kenny.

    Have Shaq and Chuck ever commented on bogus reffing?
    Never hear a word out of either of them re WarriorRef.

    Shaq may have to keep quiet due to his co MVP LakerRef aiding he and role player Bryant in the early 00s.
    Then the DWade gifts in 2006.

    But Barkley? Why the does Mr. Tell it Like it Is seemingly never comment?

  25. #725
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    It's already been said, but Mavs don't really need to change much except make their open shots. Make enough of those open jumpers, it causes the defense to adjust, to stop shading and cheating and doubling on the ball so much. Defense plays honest, and they get more clean one-on-ones for Luka and the other playmakers. Then they have a chance.

    Make open shots, and Dallas will be in the game with a chance to win. Don't make open shots, Dallas probably has no chance. Simple and basic but true.

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