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  1. #351
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    jags should just pay him or accept a 3rd pick for him, still better than the comp pick they would get in like 2021 if they dumped him now
    they should take what they can get now.

    appreciate the fact that you had cheap production for a few years from what was a third round pick and still get a draft pick back. they should be one of the tank for trevor candidates. theres little benefit to paying him franchise tag money this year for a middling team only to get a 2022 comp pick. just get the draft pick now and clear up cap space which you can roll over

    yannick is a very good player but he's NOT the caliber of guy who should be setting the market (imo kinda like cooper on the WR spectrum)

  2. #352
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    jags also looking to dump fournette

    cant imagine they'll find a taker for anything more than a third day pick

  3. #353
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    im becoming a believer of the denzel mims hype... i think he's a steal if he falls to the second route. he reminds me a lot of josh gordon, and not just because they both went to baylor.

    he's a great athlete when it come to height/weight/speed but he's not in the julio/calvin category of freak in that they are also absurdly sharp route runners in addition to their size. but he's a long strider who still manages to separate, use his frame to create more space, and has uncanny ball skills. it's like if Kenny Golladay was much faster. baylor didnt run a pro style offense so watching most of his games, he's basically just running a vertical route tree, but even then he shows great subtlety to his game, varies his releases, attacks corners' leverages, etc.

    coaches were apparently impressed with him at the senior bowl where supposedly in drills he was shredding everybody running all kinds of routes which baylor didnt ask him to run. i cant really speak to that stuff, but even based on what i've seen at baylor, he looks more refined (though less physically imposing) than DK Metcalf did last year

    this class is absurdly deep... if i had to put guys in tiers

    tier 1 - lamb/jeudy
    tier 2 - ruggs/mims/jefferson/reagor
    tier 3 - aiyuk/pittman/higgins
    tier 4 - shenault/edwards/hamler/van jefferson
    Last edited by spurraider21; 04-20-2020 at 08:42 PM.

  4. #354
    you're a phony Holden_Caulfield's Avatar
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    spurraider21's Official 2020 Mock Draft:

    (link to my 2019 mock draft: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...=1#post9778114)

    I won't be projecting any trades. The main shock here is that I don't see a natural spot for Isaiah Simmons here, except possibly the Giants or Panthers. I don't think it's a sure thing he goes as high as people think because of positional need. Assuming he does go top 10, though, that changes the Raiders first pick to a WR. Without further ado:

    1 - Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow, QB. No explanation needed. He checks every box imaginable except that he doesn't have a cannon like Stafford, but very few do.

    2 - Washington Redskins - Chase Young, DE. Assuming they stay put at #2, he's easily the best player on the board, and the Skins won't be going QB only a year after taking Haskins. He is in the Myles Garrett tier of DE prospects. Once every few years kind of guy. This is not a deep edge class, but he is better than anybody who came out last year.

    3 - Detroit Lions - Jeffrey Okudah, CB. It's not a position that ordinarily goes this high, but he is a pretty complete prospect. The Lions don't have any need for one of the big name OT's, and they really need a CB to replace Slay. I think Simmons is tempting for Patricia here, but Okudah fills a huge need.

    4 - New York Giants - Andrew Thomas, OT. Honestly, I think the top 4 OT's are graded pretty similarly, and it's hard to peg what order they'll go in. Thomas is not the most athletic of the group. He and Wirfs are the best technicians, but Thomas gets the nod because he has played on the left side more. I think Simmons is the BPA, but the Giants are investing in Daniel Jones and he needs help in the worst way.

    5 - Miami Dolphins - Tua Tagovailoa, QB. They really wanted Rosen to emerge, but ended up having to go back to Fitzmagic. It was worth giving up a 2 for Rosen, but he's not worth passing up on the position here. His durability concerns me more than his arm strength, but he has great ball placement and solid mobility, but he's not some scrambling dynamo like Russell Wilson. He's more reminiscent to Drew Brees than anybody when factoring height/accuracy/mobility, but I have concerns because he played with a ridiculously elite supporting cast and his first read got open nearly every time.

    6 - LA Chargers - Justin Herbert, QB. I really hope this happens. The Chargers are obviously in the QB market (no, Tyrod Taylor is not a legitimate long term plan), but the dropoff after Tua is steep. Herbert has all the tools, but doesn't put it together on tape. He's like Trubisky with better size and arm strength, or Josh Allen with worse running ability. This isn't a deep QB class, but they take what's there.

    7 - Carolina Panthers - Derrick Brown, DT. I think they're also very tempted to take Isaiah Simmons, who is falling because of need, not talent. They lost Gerald McCoy, Dontari Poe, and Mario Addison from their defensive line, Brown is brutally strong and provides just enough disruption in the passing game to justify being picked this high.

    8 - Arizona Cardinals - Mekhi Becton, OT. Before the Hopkins trade, I would have penciled them in for a WR to help out Kyler, but now they want to give some pass protection, and take the guy with by far the most upside at the position in Becton. The Louisville Cardinal becomes an Arizona Cardinal.

    9 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Tristan Wirfs, OT. While WR remains a possibility here, they are satisfied enough with DJ Chark and Dede Westbrook to justify waiting until a later pick in a deep class to add to that position. They shore up the offensive line which was a liability last year. The Jags are a legitimate Tank for Trevor contender.

    10 - Cleveland Browns - Jedrick Wills, OT. The Browns are also tempted to go Simmons here, but this team was disastrous on the OL last year, particularly at tackle. Wills is the last of the "big four" tackles.

    11 - New York Jets - Jerry Jeudy, WR. The Jets need a lot of help at both WR and OT, and the decision became easier after 3 straight tackles came off the board. Jeudy steps in day 1 as the preferred target for Darnold.

    12 - Las Vegas Raiders - Isaiah Simmons, LB/S. The Raiders had been locked in on taking either of Jeudy or Lamb. Great talents at a position of need. The Simmons slide ends though, as the Raiders take a dynamic hybrid defensive player to combat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

    13 - San Francisco 49ers - CeeDee Lamb, WR. They add another YAC monster to an offense that already includes George Kittle and Deebo Samuel. They let Emmanuel Sanders walk, and replace him with a long term WR1.

    14 - Tampa Bay Bucs - Javon Kinlaw, DT. The Bucs were really hoping one of the top tier OT's fell so they could protect Brady, but the value isn't there to take Josh Jones at this point, so they take the best player on the board, a disruptive, pass rushing interior lineman to fill the void left by Gerald McCoy a year ago.

    15 - Denver Broncos - Henry Ruggs, WR. While I'm not very high on Ruggs, he provides an ideal complement to the more possession based Sutton, and gives Drew Lock an explosive downfield weapon.

    16 - Atlanta Falcons - CJ Henderson, CB. The Falcons have needs across their defense, but Henderson has great physical tools and is a tier ahead of any CB remaining on the board.

    17 - Dallas Cowboys - K'Lavon Chaisson, DE. While this isn't particularly the biggest position of need, and the Cowboys were really hoping to land CJ Henderson to replace Byron Jones, Chaisson is the only other edge rusher in this draft worthy of a day 1 pick after Chase Young. He sits opposite Demarcus Lawrence to wreak havoc on Wentz. You dont need great cover corners if opposing QB's don't have time in the pocket.

    18 - Miami Dolphins - Josh Jones, OT. Miami decides its not too early to take Josh Jones and protects Tua, their new franchise QB.

    19 - Las Vegas Raiders - Kristian Fulton, CB. The Raiders decide that after Lamb/Jeudy are off the board, the next 6-7 receivers on the board are comparable enough in value to justify waiting (and perhaps trading up into the second round) for their next pick to take one. Instead, they address another glaring position of need, and take the prototypically sized Fulton who was battle tested in the SEC.

    20 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Justin Jefferson, WR. After having taken an offensive lineman earlier, they take the next WR off their board, a guy who has shown he can play in the slot or outside. Jefferson looked like a possession WR in college, but he ran in the 4.4 range, giving teams hope he can become a more dangerous weapon with some development. Perhaps they give Minshew a chance to shine with a stronger OL and a new toy out on the perimeter.

    21 - Philadelphia Eagles - Jalen Reagor, WR. The Eagles desperately need downfield speed on their offense, and Reagor is that guy with Ruggs off the board (I personally think Reagor is the better of the two). Their offense sputtered out after DeSean Jackson got hurt, and Reagor fits what they need perfectly.

    22 - Minnesota Vikings - AJ Terrell, CB. The Vikings use the Stefon Diggs pick to replace Xavier Rhodes, and what was been a declining corner position for them, generally. Terrell had a rough championship game, but that was against an all-time college QB throwing to 2 first round caliber WR's (Chase will go top 10 next year).

    23 - New England Patriots - Patrick Queen, LB. I'm not buying the Jordan Love talk for this pick. He was quite frankly not a good college QB, and I don't think BB has the patience for a guy as raw as this. Instead, they take an athletic, versatile linebacker who can run/tackle but also showed good coverage instincts and burst.

    24 - New Orleans Saints - Kenneth Murray, LB. These 2 linebacker picks can be swapped, as they are similar in profile. Murray is a bit better at being physical and taking on blocks in the run game, though Queen shows a tad more pop/burst, though I think they are very close. The Saints don't have a lot of weaknesses, but they take a versatile defender who can hopefully help out against all division rivals (Falcons just traded for Hayden Hurst, the Panthers will use and abuse CMC, and even with those big time receivers, Brady still loves the short passing game).

    25 - Minnesota Vikings - Yetur Gross-Matos, DE. The Vikings are tempted to go receiver here, but Zimmer will bang the table for more defense, and they need to replace Everson Griffen, even though the value here isn't outstanding.

    26 - Miami Dolphins - AJ Epenesa, DE. The Dolphins use the 3rd of their picks to help out on defense. With the 2 highest paid corners in the league (Xavien Howard and Byron Jones) already in the secondary, and the two top linebackers off the board, they take a defensive linemen who was projected to go significantly higher before testing awfully at the combine.

    27 - Seattle Seahawks - Ross Blacklock, DT. The Seahawks need to address their defensive front, which was good not great even with Clowney last year. There isn't much value left at edge, so they take an athletic, strong, penetrating defensive tackle.

    28 - Baltimore Ravens - Michael Pittman, WR. So, the Ravens don't really have much in the way of needs... maybe they could use help at linebacker, but there aren't any worth taking here after Murray/Queen. After the resounding success that was Marquise Brown as Lamar Jackson's deep weapon, they get him another complement on the outside, with the big and fast Michael Pittman. His catch radius is big enough to give Jackson some margin for error, and his big frame allows him to win contested balls on tough third downs.

    29 - Tennessee ans - Jaylon Johnson, CB. The ans have committed to Tannehill, and they think AJ Brown is a legit WR1, which is why they don't go offense here. Instead, they shore up an underperforming CB group with a physical, instinctive CB who maybe needs to learn a bit of discipline, but has a very high ceiling and good ball skills.

    30 - Green Bay Packers - Tee Higgins, WR. The Packers receivers outside of Davante Adams were a massive weakness last year, and they currently don't really have much in the way of a tight end. In comes Tee Higgins, a big slot receiver with great ball skills and good enough speed to make it at the next level.

    31 - San Francisco 49ers - Xavier McKinney, S. After getting Lamb earlier, the Niners go defense here, with the versatile, do-it-all McKinney who shows good enough cover skills to play FS but also is a very sturdy tackler who can match up against TE's and play SS. He will slide in next to Jimmie Ward to complete that secondary.

    32 - Kansas City Chiefs - Jeff Gladney, CB. The Chiefs are loaded on offense, and their defensive front is disruptive. However, they are very vulnerable on the back end, and they address it with Gladney, who isn't the biggest or most imposing corner, but has good coverage instincts and is aggressive on the ball. The Chiefs prioritize playmaking/turnovers above all else.

    no way simmons gets past the jags if hes even available. our lb core and safeties are very weak. if hes not available we take jeudy/lamb. dede is a slot wr and either wr would be great opposite of chark. we have young OTs who are developing atm. also we are definitely picking a CB in the 1st round. no one worth the 7th pick but at 20 should be a CB.

    and yannick what a crybaby. package him and 4net for anything at this point. maybe the bucs will give us the 14th pick for both

  5. #355
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    im becoming a believer of the denzel mims hype... i think he's a steal if he falls to the second route. he reminds me a lot of josh gordon, and not just because they both went to baylor.

    he's a great athlete when it come to height/weight/speed but he's not in the julio/calvin category of freak in that they are also absurdly sharp route runners in addition to their size. but he's a long strider who still manages to separate, use his frame to create more space, and has uncanny ball skills. it's like if Kenny Golladay was much faster. baylor didnt run a pro style offense so watching most of his games, he's basically just running a vertical route tree, but even then he shows great subtlety to his game, varies his releases, attacks corners' leverages, etc.

    coaches were apparently impressed with him at the senior bowl where supposedly in drills he was shredding everybody running all kinds of routes which baylor didnt ask him to run. i cant really speak to that stuff, but even based on what i've seen at baylor, he looks more refined (though less physically imposing) than DK Metcalf did last year

    this class is absurdly deep... if i had to put guys in tiers

    tier 1 - lamb/jeudy
    tier 2 - ruggs/mims/jefferson/reagor
    tier 3 - aiyuk/pittman/higgins
    tier 4 - shenault/edwards/hamler/van jefferson
    Idk I think Metcalf is a sure fire HOFer if he stays healthy. Especially considering who his QB is. Metcalf was running near perfect routes and making insane catches by playoff time, and he was a god in the Eagles playoff game.

  6. #356
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    jags also looking to dump fournette

    cant imagine they'll find a taker for anything more than a third day pick
    I guess the saving grace about Fournette is that he's still cheap for another year or two.. but he hasn't stayed healthy since his rookie season

    Just imagine where the Jags would be today if they had drafted Mahomes instead of making the cardinal sin everyone already knew about by drafting a HB #4 overall.

    Mahomes + that 2017 sacksonville defense would have been like playing madden on easy mode

  7. #357
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    they should take what they can get now.

    appreciate the fact that you had cheap production for a few years from what was a third round pick and still get a draft pick back. they should be one of the tank for trevor candidates. theres little benefit to paying him franchise tag money this year for a middling team only to get a 2022 comp pick. just get the draft pick now and clear up cap space which you can roll over

    yannick is a very good player but he's NOT the caliber of guy who should be setting the market (imo kinda like cooper on the WR spectrum)
    I agree, but I don't think there's anyone stopping Carolina in that regard. Carolina has by far the worst roster in the league talent-wise and it isn't even close. They also just overhauled their coaching staff. And, they play in a division with Brady, Brees and Julio Jones.

    Then again, if Prescott holds out like Leveon Bell, the Cowboys could be in the mix if they're forced to start Cooper Rush and then go through a 2015 like parade of retreads that all suck

  8. #358
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    no way simmons gets past the jags if hes even available. our lb core and safeties are very weak. if hes not available we take jeudy/lamb. dede is a slot wr and either wr would be great opposite of chark. we have young OTs who are developing atm. also we are definitely picking a CB in the 1st round. no one worth the 7th pick but at 20 should be a CB.

    and yannick what a crybaby. package him and 4net for anything at this point. maybe the bucs will give us the 14th pick for both


    i think CJ Henderson is also a legitimate option for the Jags as well. WR is a possibility, but i cant imagine thats the priority. they've gotta replace Cam Robinson... who do they have in-house to replace him?

  9. #359
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Idk I think Metcalf is a sure fire HOFer if he stays healthy. Especially considering who his QB is. Metcalf was running near perfect routes and making insane catches by playoff time, and he was a god in the Eagles playoff game.
    What's your metric that backs up "near perfect routes"?

  10. #360
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    What's your metric that backs up "near perfect routes"?
    There's no metric for that, obviously it's subjective. But early on in the season it looked like he was confusing Wilson on things like comeback vs curl routes etc, later on it looked like he ran routes that made sense vs the coverage and was almost always open. Wilson missed him a few times and he had a couple drops midseason otherwise his stats would have been pretty gaudy.

  11. #361
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    There's no metric for that, obviously it's subjective. But early on in the season it looked like he was confusing Wilson on things like comeback vs curl routes etc, later on it looked like he ran routes that made sense vs the coverage and was almost always open. Wilson missed him a few times and he had a couple drops midseason otherwise his stats would have been pretty gaudy.
    That's not subjective. There are metrics that are widely accepted to grade out a WR's route running ability.

    But you confirmed my su ion. Your comment was pretty much based on whatever plays you happened to see.

  12. #362
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    i didnt see anything from metcalf that made me think he's a remarkable route runner. but he did show great tracking skills and ball skills, along with a QB who throws a great deep ball and can buy time for downfield separation. we knew metcalf had those traits coming in, and he was able to shine because he got drafted to a team that made use of those limited (albeit useful) skills.

    a lot of what happens with young WR's is the situation they land in. metcalf would have looked like with the Jets, for example. AJ Brown didnt look very good until Mariota was replaced. even steve smith had a career revival when he left the panthers

  13. #363
    Gronk wants to join Tommy in TB


  14. #364
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Will Hunting
    mono

  15. #365
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Gronk wants to join Tommy in TB
    damn, you got me by seconds.

    i know you're on top of the spurs forum but since when do you break anything in the NFL Forum

  16. #366
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    If they can get draft picks for a retired player I’m good with it. Patriots are in rebuilding mode either way.

    They might as well trade Edelman to Tampa with Gronk.

  17. #367
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    My Bucs are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked

  18. #368
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    If they can get draft picks for a retired player I’m good with it. Patriots are in rebuilding mode either way.

    They might as well trade Edelman to Tampa with Gronk.
    its true that they should commit to the rebuild... but does come off as a cucking tbh

  19. #369
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    My Bucs are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked
    you called it

  20. #370
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    its true that they should commit to the rebuild... but does come off as a cucking tbh
    If they only get a draft pick for him and he plays productively then it’s a cucking to some extent. If he looks as broken down and busted as he did in 2018 then I’m not really worried about it.

    Im also still skeptical because he’s clearly skimmed down a lot since retiring. Doesn’t look like an NFL ready tight end right now.

  21. #371
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Gronk/Edelman for Howard/2nd tbh

  22. #372
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    If they only get a draft pick for him and he plays productively then it’s a cucking to some extent. If he looks as broken down and busted as he did in 2018 then I’m not really worried about it.

    Im also still skeptical because he’s clearly skimmed down a lot since retiring. Doesn’t look like an NFL ready tight end right now.
    rapsheet said gronk has already been putting on weight in the anticipation of a comeback. he didn't look like himself in 2018, but he's still not that old. could be a marshawn lynch situation where the year out of football actually did him some good. lynch looked pretty done in seattle but then played well for the raiders

  23. #373
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Gronk/Edelman for Howard/2nd tbh
    throw in a coach swap for the lulz

    tampa has a good history of trading for head coaches

  24. #374
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    If they only get a draft pick for him and he plays productively then it’s a cucking to some extent. If he looks as broken down and busted as he did in 2018 then I’m not really worried about it.

    Im also still skeptical because he’s clearly skimmed down a lot since retiring. Doesn’t look like an NFL ready tight end right now.
    I don't get that move if it happened. I get that there might be some chemistry between Brady and Gronk but by most accounts, Howard is an incredible athlete and very good pass blocker. I'm not sure that Gronk adds anything.
    All this on top of what you said about the shape he's in right now.

  25. #375
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I don't get that move if it happened. I get that there might be some chemistry between Brady and Gronk but by most accounts, Howard is an incredible athlete and very good pass blocker. I'm not sure that Gronk adds anything.
    All this on top of what you said about the shape he's in right now.
    there's a trust factor with Brady that can't be understated, and arians hasnt been shy about not liking Howard.

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