...a new study shows that Hispanic and Black men are (almost) three times as likely to wind up in a prison cell than in a college dorm...caucasion men are twice as likely to wind up in a college dorm than a prison cell....minority men receive a inferior education in high school mainly because better teachers move to richer, and thus, whiter districts....
Sign on San DiegoMore than three times as many black people live in prison cells as in college dorms, the government said in a report to be released Thursday.
The ratio is only slightly better for Hispanics, at 2.7 inmates for every Latino in college housing. Among non-Hispanic whites, more than twice as many live in college housing as in prison or jail.
The numbers, driven by men, do not include college students who live off campus. Previously released census data show that black and Hispanic college students commuters and those in dorms far outnumber black and Hispanic prison inmates.
Nevertheless, civil rights advocates said it is startling that blacks and Hispanics are more likely to live in prison cells than in college dorms.
As I've said before, you want to get rid of affirmative action in TX universities, then lets equal out the educational disparaties between the kids in high schools....spread the money out equally, reduce the number of crooked districts and superintendent, and subsidize teachers to teach in districts that teach to minorities...so they can keep better teachers too....
It doesn't work. The minorities are not having bad grades because of the schools. It's because of the values they are raised with. My state does equalize the money out over the schools and give troubled schools even more. We have one particular school, Jefferson High, mostly black. The state and city have tried and tried, but the bottom line is with the thugary at ude the kids are raised with, it isn't cool to do good in school.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 09-27-2007 at 10:56 PM. Reason: changed 'it' to 'is'spelling:
Great topic Dan and I'm glad you brought this up. Many of the problems that plague the black community can be fixed if the disproportinate funding of schools here in America was fixed. Look at it this way, how many well educated men abandon their families, and teach their children improper values. That is what I talk about when I say we need govenment. aid.
WC, concerning the high school you mentioned, that is why you try to solve this problem when they are young and still very impressionable. It is very difficult to try to instill different values to somebody when they have reached a certain age. Can't teach a old dog new tricks.
Pick a few articles from this Alta Vista search:
Jefferson High articles
Texas also equalizes some of the money over the schools, but it has not made a difference in teacher pay.....a skilled teacher can make $5-10K more per year by working in a north-side district in SA....maybe not in starting pay, but yearly increases add up....besides, parents are just as busy in the North side as they are on the South side....the real educational differences show up around middle school for minorities...that is why I have proposed doing away with middle schools....
Really don't think there's much hope with this guy Dan.
Ah yes, more money! The panacea of politicians for cons uents (of all races) who are too lazy, ignorant and unwilling to provide or apply a workable remedy for a problem.
Unless more money is going to repair the largely dysfunctional homes that many African Americans are raised in (it isn't), or encourage whatever parent or guardian that's raising to become involved and supportive in their pursuit of an education (it won't), then pumping more money into the schools is an effort in futility.
The root of the problem, in large part, is the breakdown in family structure which is a result of the abandonment of morals and traditional family values.
Of course, the promise of more money gets politicians votes, whereas calling for cultural and behavioral change as an antidote for problems loses votes.
America and integrity are fast becoming antonymous.
It' starts at home.
This begs the question as to what has been the precipitating factor (I should say apparent, primary precipitating factor), in that breakdown of family structure and guidance in the black community. It hasn't always been this way, afterall. When did it begin, and what caused it?
Teacher salary after 25 years:
NISD: $53,484
SAISD: $53,253
That's nearly $20 dollars a month!!! THE HUMANITY!!!
I'd be curious to see some data for urban versus suburban school funding from this decade. All I could find on the internets was for the '80s and early '90s, so I don't know whether our childrens is under the same disparity or whether I am misunderestimating reform over the last 20 years.
It's on a per-district basis; but almost all district sites publish their pay schedules.
I'm curious to see per-student funding rather than teacher pay.
And I'll try to actually read your posts from here on.
On the relation of money to school performance
...and don't just slam it 'cause it's the CATO ins ute; read it first.
You think?
Blacks perform lower than whites in a same-school environment. Please explain the phenomena based on your hypothesis.
That and A LOT more data here
Last edited by 101A; 09-28-2007 at 09:21 AM.
Stay out of jail. It's not that god damn hard.
It is correct that improving funding by itself does not improve educational results.
We also have seen that ins uting accountability measures, while improving the ability of students to pass a specific standardized test, does not improve actual educational results.
Has anyone around here ever taught in a poor district, or been close to someone who has? And by poor, I'm not talking about facilities. The difference is not that the kids don't have textbooks or working bathrooms (and when that is the case, it has a lot more to do with corrupt and incompetent administration than with lack of funding). The difference is that some kids have parents and families who, despite being poor, have been present in their lives and given them experiences to develop their minds, have provided a structured and stable home environment, and have made education a priority. As a generalization, this is more prevalent in Mexican immigrant families than in poor white, poor U.S. Hispanic, or poor black families (I became quite familiar with the truism 'La maestra siempre tiene razon.'). Those students tend to have higher achievement.
Other students have parents who are uninvolved in their lives, where there is no extended family in existence, where the kids have never so much as been out of their neighborhood in their lives, know nothing other than television, have no rules or structure, fall asleep in class because they stay up until 1 AM, have their parents' sex partners in and out of their homes, with stress, domestic violence, abuse, and either indifference or outright hostility to the concept of education. You could send those kids to schools made of cut marble with gold-leaf textbooks and mahogany desks, and they will still fail miserably. They may hang in there through the third or fourth grade, but eventually not only do they fail, but also through their inability to function in the social setting of school they cause the failure of those around them as well.
Government will never solve that problem unless we agree to take those kids away from their parents at an early age and make some kind of American Janissaries out of them.
Our culture is in full-scale collapse, and though it is most prevalent in the black community, because of its lack of cultural capital in the first place against which to fight the general social decay in America, this collapse is coming to everyone. We see it in the change in at ude from Mexican immigrants to third-generation Hispanics. We see it in poor whites. It is spreading in the middle class. Once the middle class falls, America as a meaningful power soon will cease to be. No foreign power will overtake us; we simply will perish of our own doing. And the idea that the federal government has the responsibility to fix the problem is indicative of the problem in the first place.
Every culture and society is subject to decay and corruption. Societies survive in cultures which understand this, and are vigilant to fight it. I don't mean that the governments are vigilant to fight it -- I mean that the people themselves are. Societies die when people become complacent and stuffing their faces while the house starts falling down around them, metaphorically speaking. They want other people to do their work for them while they play. They placate themselves with decadent pleasures while neglecting the discipline needed to maintain their own way of life. They give away their wealth for trifles.
It happened to the Romans. It happened to the Arabs. It happened to the Greeks. It happened to the Turks. It has happened to the Chinese several times. There is a big long book which Jews and Christians use that details how it happened over and over again to ancient Israel. Eventually the system gets so rotted out at the core that leaders can't reverse the momentum. The bed is already made. And then some calamity comes, the people go back into bondage, and only then do they see the error of their ways, change their course, and go back into the behaviors and disciplines which made their society successful in the first place.
Bravo, Stout. I only hope I've been in the dirt for many years when the collapse is complete.It is correct that improving funding by itself does not improve educational results.
We also have seen that ins uting accountability measures, while improving the ability of students to pass a specific standardized test, does not improve actual educational results.
Has anyone around here ever taught in a poor district, or been close to someone who has? And by poor, I'm not talking about facilities. The difference is not that the kids don't have textbooks or working bathrooms (and when that is the case, it has a lot more to do with corrupt and incompetent administration than with lack of funding). The difference is that some kids have parents and families who, despite being poor, have been present in their lives and given them experiences to develop their minds, have provided a structured and stable home environment, and have made education a priority. As a generalization, this is more prevalent in Mexican immigrant families than in poor white, poor U.S. Hispanic, or poor black families (I became quite familiar with the truism 'La maestra siempre tiene razon.'). Those students tend to have higher achievement.
Other students have parents who are uninvolved in their lives, where there is no extended family in existence, where the kids have never so much as been out of their neighborhood in their lives, know nothing other than television, have no rules or structure, fall asleep in class because they stay up until 1 AM, have their parents' sex partners in and out of their homes, with stress, domestic violence, abuse, and either indifference or outright hostility to the concept of education. You could send those kids to schools made of cut marble with gold-leaf textbooks and mahogany desks, and they will still fail miserably. They may hang in there through the third or fourth grade, but eventually not only do they fail, but also through their inability to function in the social setting of school they cause the failure of those around them as well.
Government will never solve that problem unless we agree to take those kids away from their parents at an early age and make some kind of American Janissaries out of them.
Our culture is in full-scale collapse, and though it is most prevalent in the black community, because of its lack of cultural capital in the first place against which to fight the general social decay in America, this collapse is coming to everyone. We see it in the change in at ude from Mexican immigrants to third-generation Hispanics. We see it in poor whites. It is spreading in the middle class. Once the middle class falls, America as a meaningful power soon will cease to be. No foreign power will overtake us; we simply will perish of our own doing. And the idea that the federal government has the responsibility to fix the problem is indicative of the problem in the first place.
Every culture and society is subject to decay and corruption. Societies survive in cultures which understand this, and are vigilant to fight it. I don't mean that the governments are vigilant to fight it -- I mean that the people themselves are. Societies die when people become complacent and stuffing their faces while the house starts falling down around them, metaphorically speaking. They want other people to do their work for them while they play. They placate themselves with decadent pleasures while neglecting the discipline needed to maintain their own way of life. They give away their wealth for trifles.
It happened to the Romans. It happened to the Arabs. It happened to the Greeks. It happened to the Turks. It has happened to the Chinese several times. There is a big long book which Jews and Christians use that details how it happened over and over again to ancient Israel. Eventually the system gets so rotted out at the core that leaders can't reverse the momentum. The bed is already made. And then some calamity comes, the people go back into bondage, and only then do they see the error of their ways, change their course, and go back into the behaviors and disciplines which made their society successful in the first place.
Ok smartass, but what's the difference in scale between NEISD and some of the south-side districts?
....while I agree that family values plays a part in how well kids to in schools, studies have also shown that those districts that spend higher per pupil averages turn out smarter kids....
If your a rich white business owner, you call the shots, yeah, you may work a lot too, but you also generally have more flexibility to be there for your kids if they need you. In general, minorities who are successful and work a lot are already over-burdened, over-stressed at work, always over-spent at home, most are home for only a few hours with their kids every day. Fact is, whatever your skin color, statistics show that most parents spend less than a hour per day with their kids....so it's more than just culture....
Great take! You came so close to the real crust of the problem but refused to cross over the Rubicon Stout...
And who have you proposed this idea too? The only people you've proposed this to is everyone on this forum isn't it?
So true. This is what is happening in the Western World. It is more pronounced in some countries than in others, but it is present from Canada to Argentina, from W. Europe to E. Europe.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
