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  1. #2301
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    That's going to be a tricky one to prove, tbh. Some of the evidence will be blocked by HIPAA. Primo's defense will also hammer home the point that if she felt threatened, her code of ethics states he should have been referred elsewhere and she should have stopped working with him.

    Considering that Primo basically admitted some sort of guilt in his initial press release and considering that the Spurs waived him, Primo is probably a serial offender who deserves to be punished. I ... just don't think the psychologist has the greatest case due to the unique cir stances of her job and the limitations that will create when it comes to which evidence can be used in a court of law.

  2. #2302
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    That's going to be a tricky one to prove, tbh. Some of the evidence will be blocked by HIPAA. Primo's defense will also hammer home the point that if she felt threatened, her code of ethics states he should have been referred elsewhere and she should have stopped working with him.

    Considering that Primo basically admitted some sort of guilt in his initial press release and considering that the Spurs waived him, Primo is probably a serial offender who deserves to be punished. I ... just don't think the psychologist has the greatest case due to the unique cir stances of her job and the limitations that will create when it comes to which evidence can be used in a court of law.
    There seems to be a misunderstanding here: HIPAA, client-attorney, patient-doctor, etc do not shield criminal conduct.
    The rest is correct. Ultimately, unless she has a taped recording it’s all hearsay (even if she reported it to the Spurs)

    This is why her attorney is looking for additional victims, so he can establish a pattern (which would at least help a civil prosecution). Neither the Spurs or Primo have made any reference or admission about exposure being the ‘trauma’.

  3. #2303
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    That's going to be a tricky one to prove, tbh. Some of the evidence will be blocked by HIPAA. Primo's defense will also hammer home the point that if she felt threatened, her code of ethics states he should have been referred elsewhere and she should have stopped working with him.

    Considering that Primo basically admitted some sort of guilt in his initial press release and considering that the Spurs waived him, Primo is probably a serial offender who deserves to be punished. I ... just don't think the psychologist has the greatest case due to the unique cir stances of her job and the limitations that will create when it comes to which evidence can be used in a court of law.
    I said in another thread- I have a problem with a health care provider suing and or filling criminal charges against a patient.
    Of course we don't know all the facts- the rumor about him blocking her from getting out

  4. #2304
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I hope all (or most, more realistically) of the facts eventually come out, because it's such a confusing situation. I don't doubt at all that Primo did something extremely improper, but I still have a hard time wrapping my brain around the image of Dr Cauthen getting up one morning after having been sexually flashed by Primo eight previous times, checking her schedule for the day, and moving forward by getting ready for yet another session with him. I have two good friends who are in the psych/counseling world, and both say it makes little to no sense.

  5. #2305
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    The details are going to be both interesting and cringe-worthy to watch unfold.
    I can imagine that the prosecution is betting that this never sees a court room. Once the shock and awe of the allegations wear off, they may not have the detailed data to win a case.
    If they do, however, our Spurs citadel and all its precious culture will be crumbling before our eyes. Today, my money is on the Spurs.

  6. #2306
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    There seems to be a misunderstanding here: HIPAA, client-attorney, patient-doctor, etc do not shield criminal conduct.
    True, but what I meant was a lot of the discussions she had with Primo during their sessions would not be allowed in a court room, AFAIK. Whereas, the supposed Reddit Four Seasons Accuser wouldn't have any restrictions on what was said between her and Primo.

  7. #2307
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    I hope all (or most, more realistically) of the facts eventually come out, because it's such a confusing situation. I don't doubt at all that Primo did something extremely improper, but I still have a hard time wrapping my brain around the image of Dr Cauthen getting up one morning after having been sexually flashed by Primo eight previous times, checking her schedule for the day, and moving forward by getting ready for yet another session with him. I have two good friends who are in the psych/counseling world, and both say it makes little to no sense.
    same. i know a few therapists who are trying to piece together the missing pieces because it all sounds so baffling to them.

  8. #2308
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    I don't have a background in counseling but the two things that had me scratching my head about her side of this is continuing to see Primo after 1 or 2 times of improper conduct and that she did not have the urgency to get a meeting with Wright for almost three months. I know Wright was supposedly the one putting it off but I would go talk to someone else if I couldn't get in to see him for months.

  9. #2309
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    That's going to be a tricky one to prove, tbh. Some of the evidence will be blocked by HIPAA. Primo's defense will also hammer home the point that if she felt threatened, her code of ethics states he should have been referred elsewhere and she should have stopped working with him.

    Considering that Primo basically admitted some sort of guilt in his initial press release and considering that the Spurs waived him, Primo is probably a serial offender who deserves to be punished. I ... just don't think the psychologist has the greatest case due to the unique cir stances of her job and the limitations that will create when it comes to which evidence can be used in a court of law.

    So where is the line crossed with his behavior ?
    Actually raping her
    He blocked the door at one point .

    She has a unique job but she should not see all his private parts

  10. #2310
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    True, but what I meant was a lot of the discussions she had with Primo during their sessions would not be allowed in a court room, AFAIK. Whereas, the supposed Reddit Four Seasons Accuser wouldn't have any restrictions on what was said between her and Primo.
    Yep. The fact that the Spurs feel confident about letting the legal process go through suggests there’s no ‘smoking gun’ type of evidence they hold. After discovery we’ll know if the plaintiff is holding any cards too.

  11. #2311
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    I don't have a background in counseling but the two things that had me scratching my head about her side of this is continuing to see Primo after 1 or 2 times of improper conduct and that she did not have the urgency to get a meeting with Wright for almost three months. I know Wright was supposedly the one putting it off but I would go talk to someone else if I couldn't get in to see him for months.
    She could not afford to lose her job
    Wright did not believe her so she kepted working

  12. #2312
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    Am i the only one that thinks after she reported this the spurs were probs like “yeah he’s a sicko that’s why we sent him to to you”.

    And when she asked “why aren’t you doing something about it” they were like “we thought we were. We sent him to the shrink”
    This is my interpretation as well. There is a part where it says that after she talked to Wright about it he asked her what did she think the next steps would be and continued to have her see him cause you know, he seems to have a mental health problem, and she is a mental health professional.

    I wonder if at any time did she refer primo to a different doctor? I also wonder was she not retained because, well, Primo mental health issue never got resolved. So what is the point of keeping her employed?

    Or maybe she views it as he had some different mental health issue and the flashing thing is just Primo being a y...pun intended...19 year old millionaire who thinks that type of thing is funny and he can do what he wants and she doesn't view that as being part of his mental health issue and him just being a dirtbag?

    Weirdest set of cir stances I have seen in awhile tbh.

  13. #2313
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    For whatever reason someone is muddying the waters here. Typically that means someone is trying to buy time in order to get a strategy straight or a legal complaint more focused. Although the shrink said she isn't looking for money, someone is looking for a good sized payday. When the truth comes out and it eventually will, someone will pay either with the loss of their job, career, reputation or big money. Whichever way it goes, the lawyers will get their piece of the pie.

  14. #2314
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    For whatever reason someone is muddying the waters here. Typically that means someone is trying to buy time in order to get a strategy straight or a legal complaint more focused. Although the shrink said she isn't looking for money, someone is looking for a good sized payday. When the truth comes out and it eventually will, someone will pay either with the loss of their job, career, reputation or big money. Whichever way it goes, the lawyers will get their piece of the pie.

    Yep... the only thing that's an absolute certainty here is that two law firms will be making a lot of money.

  15. #2315
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    You dont think fans are owed anything? Even with the “we are family” stuff? And how outspoken they are on other issues?
    That’s like believing a company that you work for when they say that. Only chumps would.

  16. #2316
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Very low odds Primo ever faces criminal charges... but asking the Bexar County sheriff to investigate is good theater.

  17. #2317
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I said in another thread- I have a problem with a health care provider suing and or filling criminal charges against a patient.
    Of course we don't know all the facts- the rumor about him blocking her from getting out
    Doesn’t make it illegal or even unethical.

  18. #2318
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    How can you unintentionally flash someone 8 times?

  19. #2319
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    They literally had a higher pick the year before. Hopefully Vassell is just hurt and not caught up in this, but the importance of the Primo pick is overstated compared to their other picks. He's a miss and legal hassle, but relatively speaking, he isn't a bigger missed opportunity than James Anderson was. Anderson was a high pick admit a sea of low picks. Primo is just one of the many high and mid picks the Spurs have had recently
    Sorry for the late quote, but I remember wanting to respond to the comparison to Anderson.

    The #12 in Primo's draft was a bigger missed opportunity than the #20 in Anderson's draft, due to the talent available. Just looking at how many more lottery picks they'll have as a bad team I don't think paints a complete picture.

    The 2010 was notorious for being crap after 19. A couple of years after it happened I remember a Bill Simmons podcast talking about and gushing over how lucky the Celtics were to be 19 because Avery Bradley was the last draftable player and it's hard to argue he was wrong. From 20-60, only 2 guys had 10 year careers, Whiteside and Lance Stephenson, and both guys had their particular issues getting there. Only Trevor Booker other than those 2 had an 8 year career.

    There's probably starting with the #12 pick about 10 guys in the 21 draft I could foresee having 10+ year careers (or at least 8 years) from a list of about 15 names give or take.

    I'm most positive about the chances of (in draft order) Moody, Sengun, Mann, I. Jackson, Grimes, Hyland, Aldama, JRE, Herb Jones, Dosunmu.

    There's more guys who will still could end up having better careers than the rest of the 2010 picks from 20-30 whose best guy was probably Trevor Booker who played 8 years. Duarte, Kispert, Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson, Josh Christopher, and some other guys who might stick around.

    With the Anderson pick, there's basically nobody who could be reasonably seen as doing any better as a spur, because there wasn't anyone who could have been expected to do better. Whiteside was too immature. Lance definitely would not have been over himself, and guys like Booker and Vasquez were just 8th-10th men at best. But for 2021 I'm certain there will be players who could be looked back on as players who could have done more for SA than Barry Allen

    As a final illustration of how bad that draft was with only 2 players from 20-60 having a 10 or more year career:

    I went back to the 2000 draft through the 2013 draft, and the fewest other than 2010 was a year with 5 guys. But there were 2 years of 14 or 15 ! guys. Even forecasting forward 3 years through the 2016 draft, I can't imagine those years having fewer than 5 guys.

    00 - 6 players
    01 - 11
    02 - 8
    03 - 15
    04 - 8
    05 - 14
    06 - 7
    07 - 8
    08 - 9
    09 - 10
    10 - 2
    11 - 5 for now but Bojan Bogdanovic is sitting at 9 years and just signed a 2 year extension
    12 - 5
    13 - 6 (though I'd barely count Muscala)
    14 projection - 8
    15 projection - 9
    16 protection - at least 5, outside chance of a couple more but they'd likely be fringe

    2010 draft picks 20-60 = trash

  20. #2320
    Believe.
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    She could not afford to lose her job
    Wright did not believe her so she kepted working
    So she was hired to help, saw an issue 9 times but never tried to correct the issue. As in why she was hired. So she wasn’t asked to summer league? Why most players are just tryouts. Asked to work from home in the off season? Well players are on vacation. Her contract wasn’t pick up. Well she never addressed the problem she saw. Only asked others to do so.

  21. #2321
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    Doesn’t make it illegal or even unethical.
    Not illegal
    I think the latter if up for debate
    But only if one knows all the facts

  22. #2322
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    She said she never called him out on it. She’s says she can’t say what they talked about, yet said she let 9 issues slide.

  23. #2323
    Since 1979 Das Texan's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late quote, but I remember wanting to respond to the comparison to Anderson.

    The #12 in Primo's draft was a bigger missed opportunity than the #20 in Anderson's draft, due to the talent available. Just looking at how many more lottery picks they'll have as a bad team I don't think paints a complete picture.

    The 2010 was notorious for being crap after 19. A couple of years after it happened I remember a Bill Simmons podcast talking about and gushing over how lucky the Celtics were to be 19 because Avery Bradley was the last draftable player and it's hard to argue he was wrong. From 20-60, only 2 guys had 10 year careers, Whiteside and Lance Stephenson, and both guys had their particular issues getting there. Only Trevor Booker other than those 2 had an 8 year career.

    There's probably starting with the #12 pick about 10 guys in the 21 draft I could foresee having 10+ year careers (or at least 8 years) from a list of about 15 names give or take.

    I'm most positive about the chances of (in draft order) Moody, Sengun, Mann, I. Jackson, Grimes, Hyland, Aldama, JRE, Herb Jones, Dosunmu.

    There's more guys who will still could end up having better careers than the rest of the 2010 picks from 20-30 whose best guy was probably Trevor Booker who played 8 years. Duarte, Kispert, Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson, Josh Christopher, and some other guys who might stick around.

    With the Anderson pick, there's basically nobody who could be reasonably seen as doing any better as a spur, because there wasn't anyone who could have been expected to do better. Whiteside was too immature. Lance definitely would not have been over himself, and guys like Booker and Vasquez were just 8th-10th men at best. But for 2021 I'm certain there will be players who could be looked back on as players who could have done more for SA than Barry Allen

    As a final illustration of how bad that draft was with only 2 players from 20-60 having a 10 or more year career:

    I went back to the 2000 draft through the 2013 draft, and the fewest other than 2010 was a year with 5 guys. But there were 2 years of 14 or 15 ! guys. Even forecasting forward 3 years through the 2016 draft, I can't imagine those years having fewer than 5 guys.

    00 - 6 players
    01 - 11
    02 - 8
    03 - 15
    04 - 8
    05 - 14
    06 - 7
    07 - 8
    08 - 9
    09 - 10
    10 - 2
    11 - 5 for now but Bojan Bogdanovic is sitting at 9 years and just signed a 2 year extension
    12 - 5
    13 - 6 (though I'd barely count Muscala)
    14 projection - 8
    15 projection - 9
    16 protection - at least 5, outside chance of a couple more but they'd likely be fringe

    2010 draft picks 20-60 = trash
    Ya but that Anderson pick isnt really their fault.

    Injuries happen, he looked real good before the foot issue from what I recall at the time and looked to be every bit worth of being the #20 pick or even higher.

    Then the foot thing happened and he was never the same unfortuantely.

    Hard to fault the Spurs for really anything but awful and terrible luck (and Anderson as well).

    This Primo pick is in a category all in and of itself alone.

  24. #2324
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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  25. #2325
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