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Just in time. Thanks Pop!
Figured this was worthy of its own thread.
I ran across a tweet today and although I knew we were bad -- I've recently been ranting about our poor defense over the last multiple years, and our current league worst defensive stats like +/-, and PPG -- until I saw the tweet, I had no idea we were currently the worst defensive team in NBA history. And rank near the worst ALL-TIME in several other categories.
The Spurs have one of the worst defenses in NBA history...
-Worst Defensive Rating (119.9) EVER
-3rd-worst opponent 3P% (39.9%) EVER
-25th-worst opponent FG% (50.7%) EVER
-First team to allow <120 PPG since '90-'91
Just a strange sight from a team coached by Gregg Popovich...
https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/...497964550?s=19
Just in time. Thanks Pop!
Whatever it takes, tbh.
If true, Pop deserves a bonus!
Way to go guys, we getting serious.
#1 Tank Commander!
Would agree if this wasn't a trend. But it is. Several years running now. Not sure Wembanyama changes that substantially. Which is my main concern.
Worst team ever, in an 82 game season was the 72-73 Philadelphia 76ers, who went 9-73. We’ve already won more games than that and it’s not even All Star break yet. I don’t care about stats, since most of them are relevant only in their era. This is the You Cannot Defend Shooters era.
It's actually 8th worst in history because the true measure is relative to league average, as opposed to just total since so many stats are so inflated now.
But yeah, I was harping on this months ago. Despite mostly having players with defensive reputations in prominent roles and the genius, who'd supposedly waive his magic wand (that coincidentally seemed to break or go missing when one of the GOAT players/cores aged out) and will a baseline of competency out of any group, they're even worse than the much maligned Rockets.
I think you have to look at it differently. Good defense = bad lottery pick; bad defense = good lottery pick. This is a necessary evil. If we get the number one pick, our defense will improve dramatically.
There's certainly merit to that argument but the only constant we have to measure the teams over the years is in fact the statistics.
It should be noted also that even within this era, the Spurs are several points below/worse than the next closest team.
Additionally, to me this is about the reality of this still being a pop-coached team as the tweet underscores. A guy that historically demanded excellence on that end, that's allowed a multi-year slide into historical ignominy
You sure about that? What about the last several years makes you think one player, even someone as long as Wembanyama, makes a significant difference? We are who our talent says we are, and that isn't a good defensive BB team.
I discount the "WORST EVAH" moniker because this era it's practically impossible to actually and legally play defense in many sets. You get called for so much , contact that's created by the offense, contact that's not fouls... it's absurd. And I'm not sure why it's not more of an issue.
That said... the team SUCKS at covering shooters and most rotations and it's completely baffling why.
Too bad it didn't show up tonight when we needed it most.
That’s covid vaccine at a super spreader event level defense lol
I really wonder if Pop knows how to coach defense in this era.
He needs to quit whining about 3 pointers, accept reality, and figure out how to defend modern offenses
And we are still better than HOU who is in third year of their rebuild with 2 top 3 picks and better than CHA who is supposed to have their centerpiece in LaMelo lol
Yes in the standings by 3 or so games. But to the point of this thread, our defensive rating currently makes this the worst team in NBA history. That's a record that will stay on the books -- until broken at least. Who finished 3rd or 4th in the 2023 season matters not other than who gets the golden ticket for Wembanyama.
Records don't mean , and are meant to be broken. Especially so in this era of a dozen 40-a-game type players.
Who cares about defensive rating on a tanking season? Believe it or not, a triple-A prospect like Wembanyama can absolutely, significantly shape not only the defensive composition of the team, but its entire working. Can you really tell me that replacing Sochan (or sliding him to the 3, even better), and putting another 7 foot player, who just so happens to be so freakishly nimble and agile as to guard the perimeter with excellence as well, will not result in a complete overhaul of the Spurs' iden y and play?
Let's freak out about defensive performance once the Spurs are no longer trying to actively tank, but still suck at it. As many have pointed out already, it's pretty likely that most, if not all, of the current roster will be gone by the time the Spurs are ready to compete again. Why worry about such non-consequential stats like these?
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Besides that, I absolutely wouldn't put the difference between the Rockettes and the Spurs as "only 2-3 wins in the standings". Have you watched them at all? It's no wonder that, as talent-deprived and actively-tanking as we are, the Spurs beat them convincingly each time they faced (that I got to watch at least). There's a big gap between both teams in multiple areas, including offensive and defensive sets, ball distribution, player discipline, teamwork, good and healthy player development, team iden y, and of course coaching itself, which impacts development significantly.
It's why I was never on board with a Rockettes-level tank job. Once the wheels come off completely, it ain't so easy to get them back on, at all... You gotta fix the entire car first, from the ground up. Spurs are, relatively, much closer to "getting back on track", despite having had no access to top lottery picks yet.
Spurs traded their best defenders DJ and Derrick to rebuild. Plus I have been very critical of Poeltl as overrated and lacks the consistency. I thought he’d be much better with a bigger defender like Sochan at PF. But basically, Poeltl’s on-man defense leaves much to be desired. He seems to cower against dominant bigs. Still I think this season we cannot really read too much as Spurs being last in defensive rating. They are rebuilding, DNP’s and playing young rookies. I will not read too much of it. I think they will be better than average simply because it’s Pop’s team, and that’s where he hangs his hat on - defense. I think we have young athletic team who should be able to defend better. Tre is actually a good point-of-attack defender, likewise Vassell, Sochan. Keldon is moving well. I know JRich could be gone, but Stanley Johnson could be a good defender off the bench who can theoritically defend 1-5. Collins is always fighting for position. Spurs might need a bigger guard next draft and could very possibly be one of the Thompson Twins. Let’s see.
Last edited by John B; 01-18-2023 at 12:12 PM.
I watch Sochan a lot on defense. Seems like he is playing roving zone a lot instead of staying with his man. As a result he often gets caught out of position near the lane with his man open for a corner 3. (Probably worked for him more in college)
My questions are:
1. Is this a tactic approved and put in place by the coaches because they think he is all league on defense?
2. Rookie mistake in perception of how good NBA shooters are and can be corrected?
I hope someone has been watching as well and can confirm or correct my analysis.
One player can make a great impact on defense. Wembanyama and Poetl in the middle would be a crazy shot blocking combination and both are mobile. Plus the other positions are not manned with bad defenders. Sochen's best skill is defense. Vassel was drafted mostly because of his great defensive instincts and three point shooting. Getting defense and shooting at the 4 with that kind of size would make this a very good defense.
Disagree. This NBA is about wing defenders and Stanley Johnson or Romeo Langford might be our best. Rim protection means less in this new run and gun, 3ball era.
Vassell isn’t even an average wing/guard defender. Keldon was active last night but is still a horrible man to man defender.
I don't know about the last point, but props for not getting caught up in the big man bias movement and pretending wing/perimeter defenders could ever have the same impact as an elite anchor/rim protector, who are still and always will be the lone archetype able to singlehandedly prop up a defense.
Sure, mobility is more important than ever, but it's not everything. Look no further than Antetokounmpo being unable to maintain the Bucks' perennially elite defense mostly sans Lopez last season and it returning the second the latter did.
WGAF TBH.
Does it really matter? This team is aiming for a high draft pick. Should we really be upset that the defense sucks?
^
It kinda looked like the Nets were tanking last night.
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