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  1. #3801
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    What about MJ without Pip?
    84: 27-55 - Missed playoffs
    85: 38-44 - 1st round exit
    86: 30-52 - 1st round exit
    87: 40-42 - 1st round exit

    1987: traded for Pippen's draft rights (dumbass Sonics) to save his monkey ass

    4th year in, and already exhibiting TOSB symptoms. Pip had to carry Air Jaundice:


    88: 50-32 - lost 2nd round, +10 wins
    89: 47-35 - lost ECFs, -3 wins
    90: 55-27 - lost ECFs, +8 wins

    Pip without Jordan? Okay:

    99: 31-19 - lost 1st round (Houston)
    00: 59-23 - lost WCFs (tlongs)
    01: 50-32 - lost 1st round (tlongs)
    02: 49-33 - lost 1st round (tlongs)
    03: 50-32 - lost 1st round (tlongs)

    I'm not gonna count Washington Wizards MJ and Pip's swan song (playing 6 games) in 04 before retirement.

    Boiled down: Pip won 55 games while MJ was striking out in baseball and has a lot more winning without MJ did without him. Neither won a le without each other but I'd argue Pip was more successful without MJ than the other way around. But MJ's shadow is too big for Pip to ever overcome to get his due.

  2. #3802
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Raptors heart of champions stun Celtics with 0.5 sec or less three!
    I hope this messes up their heads. What a boneheaded way to lose

  3. #3803
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    But MJ's shadow is too big for Pip to ever overcome to get his due.
    how he going to get his due when he cantget his due against future who made him a cuck

  4. #3804
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    how he going to get his due when he cantget his due against future who made him a cuck
    Jim - who "unknowingly" bout mi amigo Juan Carlos a gym - is a cuck. And he only sees his kids on weekends. And Amy got half. And he has to work as an "assistant coach" to make ends meet. FOH son. Be quiet when grown folks are talking.

  5. #3805
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    that ref has some money on the game imp


  6. #3806
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Stella

    A favorite of mine

  7. #3807
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Boiled down: Pip won 55 games while MJ was striking out in baseball and has a lot more winning without MJ did without him. Neither won a le without each other but I'd argue Pip was more successful without MJ than the other way around. But MJ's shadow is too big for Pip to ever overcome to get his due.
    Jordan was better without Pippen than vice versa. That season with Rockets is big stain. Those seasons with the Blazers he was unable to put them over the hump. Jordan would have.

  8. #3808
    Veteran
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    What about MJ without Pip?
    84: 27-55 - Missed playoffs
    85: 38-44 - 1st round exit
    86: 30-52 - 1st round exit
    87: 40-42 - 1st round exit

    1987: traded for Pippen's draft rights (dumbass Sonics) to save his monkey ass

    4th year in, and already exhibiting TOSB symptoms. Pip had to carry Air Jaundice:


    88: 50-32 - lost 2nd round, +10 wins
    89: 47-35 - lost ECFs, -3 wins
    90: 55-27 - lost ECFs, +8 wins

    Pip without Jordan? Okay:

    99: 31-19 - lost 1st round (Houston)
    00: 59-23 - lost WCFs (tlongs)
    01: 50-32 - lost 1st round (tlongs)
    02: 49-33 - lost 1st round (tlongs)
    03: 50-32 - lost 1st round (tlongs)

    I'm not gonna count Washington Wizards MJ and Pip's swan song (playing 6 games) in 04 before retirement.

    Boiled down: Pip won 55 games while MJ was striking out in baseball and has a lot more winning without MJ did without him. Neither won a le without each other but I'd argue Pip was more successful without MJ than the other way around. But MJ's shadow is too big for Pip to ever overcome to get his due.


    Growing up during the 90's I actually liked Pippen more than MJ. The bulls won 55 the first year without MJ but it also helped they added a lot of depth in getting Kukoc,Longley,Kerr. The next season they lost Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright. That year they were awful with a record of 34-31 before MJ came back. Pippen got exposed in the sense that he was not mentally strong enough to carry a team and live up to being the number 1 guy. He still put up great numbers but he had a bunch of meltdowns during the season and was a terrible leader who couldn't keep himself composed. Scottie had the incident where he threw the chair on the court and got suspended. He was also on ESPN every week demanding to get traded and complaining about Jerry Krause.

    Once MJ came back it restored some structure and semblance for the bulls and they ended up going 13-4 for the rest of the year and winning 47 games. MJ was a beast even during the final le run where Scottie missed I think the first 20-30 games, MJ still kept the bulls afloat with the second best record in the east up until Pippen came back.

    There are guys that are going to be great players regardless of where they play ala Pippen, David Robinson but at the same time they can never win a championship being the number 1 guy. I look at a guy like Paul George if the Clippers win it all and he will fall in that category. I'm not saying he's as good as Pippen-Robinson but that he just falls in a category as being great in a number 2 but not as a number 1. I put Anthony Davis in that category to if the Lakers win it all because even at old age Lebron is still better at being the number 1 guy than AD.

  9. #3809
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Jordan was better without Pippen than vice versa. That season with Rockets is big stain. Those seasons with the Blazers he was unable to put them over the hump. Jordan would have.
    You talking hypothetically "if Jordan played for those Blazer teams" but what I'm saying is in reality Pip was better without him than he was without Pip. That's irrefutable.

  10. #3810
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Growing up during the 90's I actually liked Pippen more than MJ. The bulls won 55 the first year without MJ but it also helped they added a lot of depth in getting Kukoc,Longley,Kerr. The next season they lost Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright. That year they were awful with a record of 34-31 before MJ came back. Pippen got exposed in the sense that he was not mentally strong enough to carry a team and live up to being the number 1 guy. He still put up great numbers but he had a bunch of meltdowns during the season and was a terrible leader who couldn't keep himself composed. Scottie had the incident where he threw the chair on the court and got suspended. He was also on ESPN every week demanding to get traded and complaining about Jerry Krause.

    Once MJ came back it restored some structure and semblance for the bulls and they ended up going 13-4 for the rest of the year and winning 47 games. MJ was a beast even during the final le run where Scottie missed I think the first 20-30 games, MJ still kept the bulls afloat with the second best record in the east up until Pippen came back.

    There are guys that are going to be great players regardless of where they play ala Pippen, David Robinson but at the same time they can never win a championship being the number 1 guy. I look at a guy like Paul George if the Clippers win it all and he will fall in that category. I'm not saying he's as good as Pippen-Robinson but that he just falls in a category as being great in a number 2 but not as a number 1. I put Anthony Davis in that category to if the Lakers win it all because even at old age Lebron is still better at being the number 1 guy than AD.
    Not gonna disagree with any of this, other than to say he had legit beef with Jerry Krause. I blame Pip and his agent, but he was MAJORLY underpaid. He was easily the Robin but was paid peanuts. From 87-97, the Bulls paid him $22.3M! Didnt mean to laugh, but compare that to how much they paid Jordan ($33.1M) in 1997 alone.

    And unlike today, there was no player empowerment back then. He could have easily forced the Bulls to trade him or pay him in today's NBA, but not back then.

    Everyone knows what he meant to MJ and the Bulls yet they paid him like a scrub. I bet that's why Horace left for the Magic in 94 too.

    I don't blame Pip one bit if he lashed out. They short changed him at least $100M over 11 years he was there. It took him leaving to get paid. Sad tbh.

    There are 3 things you never mess with:

    A man's woman
    A man's food
    A man's money

    In that order

  11. #3811
    Veteran
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    Not gonna disagree with any of this, other than to say he had legit beef with Jerry Krause. I blame Pip and his agent, but he was MAJORLY underpaid. He was easily the Robin but was paid peanuts. From 87-97, the Bulls paid him $22.3M! Didnt mean to laugh, but compare that to how much they paid Jordan ($33.1M) in 1997 alone.

    And unlike today, there was no player empowerment back then. He could have easily forced the Bulls to trade him or pay him in today's NBA, but not back then.

    Everyone knows what he meant to MJ and the Bulls yet they paid him like a scrub. I bet that's why Horace left for the Magic in 94 too.

    I don't blame Pip one bit if he lashed out. They short changed him at least $100M over 11 years he was there. It took him leaving to get paid. Sad tbh.

    There are 3 things you never mess with:

    A man's woman
    A man's food
    A man's money

    In that order
    It would have been the same today if Reinsdorf is the owner. Reinsdorf is old school he's not going to bend to a player no matter how bad the publicity he recieves. This is the same guy who was openly portrayed as the villain during the bulls second Three Peat but made no apologies about what he did. Now if was any other owner Scottie would be able to successfully force a trade

    Pippen was severely underpaid but it was his fault for signing that deal. His agent is on the record stating that he was against Pippen signing the deal. Pippen even confirms this so Pippen only has himself to blame for that terrible contract.

  12. #3812
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    It would have been the same today if Reinsdorf is the owner. Reinsdorf is old school he's not going to bend to a player no matter how bad the publicity he recieves. This is the same guy who was openly portrayed as the villain during the bulls second Three Peat but made no apologies about what he did. Now if was any other owner Scottie would be able to successfully force a trade

    Pippen was severely underpaid but it was his fault for signing that deal. His agent is on the record stating that he was against Pippen signing the deal. Pippen even confirms this so Pippen only has himself to blame for that terrible contract.
    Wow. Damb. SMH

  13. #3813
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    LkrFan LAL with LaRoid and DaQuit exposed tonight - worries yet?

  14. #3814
    Believe. anon's Avatar
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  15. #3815
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    LkrFan LAL with LaRoid and DaQuit exposed tonight - worries yet?
    Nope. Dame was up 1-0 too.

  16. #3816
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rummpd
    LkrFan LAL with LaRoid and DaQuit exposed tonight - worries yet?

    Nope. Dame was up 1-0 too.
    That's the spirit Eduardo.

  17. #3817
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    How many rings does Pippen have without Jordan?
    As many as Jordan without Pippen

  18. #3818
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    As many as Jordan without Pippen
    How many rings does Magic have without Kareem?

  19. #3819
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rummpd
    LkrFan LAL with LaRoid and DaQuit exposed tonight - worries yet?



    That's the spirit Eduardo.

  20. #3820
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    How many rings does Magic have without Kareem?
    What it has to do with Jordan's inability to win rings without elite 2nd option? True greats like Timmy, Hakeem and Dirk were able to do it

  21. #3821
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    What it has to do with Jordan's inability to win rings without elite 2nd option? True greats like Timmy, Hakeem and Dirk were able to do it
    Yeah, they all won every season he played thus Jordan losing despite being the best performer in every series proves he couldn’t ever have won without Pippen. Magic at his peak couldn’t do it without Kareem but I never hear you trashing him for it.

  22. #3822
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Yeah, they all won every season he played thus Jordan losing despite being the best performer in every series proves he couldn’t ever have won without Pippen. Magic at his peak couldn’t do it without Kareem but I never hear you trashing him for it.
    Nobody saying that Magic is goat and head and shoulders above everybody else. That's why I don't talk about him.

    Oh, wow, Jordan didn't play from 2004-2020, so all these rings doesn't count. Nevermind that Pistons contained him (as well as Seattle in 96 and Knicks in 93) and league changed rules to make it easier for Jordan. Some stars won les with much less help then Jordan. But it's LeBron who needs moar help

  23. #3823
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Nobody saying that Magic is goat and head and shoulders above everybody else. That's why I don't talk about him.

    Oh, wow, Jordan didn't play from 2004-2020, so all these rings doesn't count. Nevermind that Pistons contained him (as well as Seattle in 96 and Knicks in 93) and league changed rules to make it easier for Jordan. Some stars won les with much less help then Jordan. But it's LeBron who needs moar help

  24. #3824
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Book Lopez as 2nd team all defense

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ive-first-team


    Robert Covington, Jimmy Butler, Embiid, Jarrett Allen, Myles Turner, Steven Adams, Whiteside, Purrtl, all say o and f that

    https://www.espn.com/nba/stats

  25. #3825
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Bucks have joined the VIP section of the exclusive Silver and Black 8! club

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