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  1. #26
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Saw this article posted on reddit and damn... Didnt know they hated this website so much.

    Looks like they really hated timvp's takes.
    Well, this site is extremely toxic and has never been cleaned up. Like, years after it should have been.

  2. #27
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Well, this site is extremely toxic and has never been cleaned up. Like, years after it should have been.
    Nah, ST is fine. It's amazing how well folks get along here rather than in other forums that repress hostility so much. A lot of people who are used to heavy moderation have a low tolerance for certain things because when it comes up on their sites, it causes this big stir, with mods running in to ban posters, threads getting closed, warnings getting issued. A thread like that one about MKE protested would've been banned within a day on RGM for being "divisive" or "off-topic". Here it stayed around, folks who wanted to engage in it did so, those who didn't just used different threads, and everyone moved on with their lives.

    Plus it feel so much better being able to go at posters here without fear of mods.

  3. #28
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    Before I took a deep dive on Hampton, I had him somewhere around ~20. His stats in Australia are really scary, including the numbers you pointed out.

    The Spurs are known to be one of the better teams at developing players and if you're looking for a raw prospect to develop, Hampton is pretty high on that list. Extremely fast, great burst, good size at 6-foot-5, good touch, etc. And then when you factor in that he was basically a junior in high school who reclassified to a senior and then went pro all within a couple months -- his struggles in Australia are pretty understandable. Australia isn't a great league but they have a lot of former, old, desperate NBA-ish guys at the guard positions who didn't hesitate to beat him up.

    Plus, Hampton only played like 300 minutes in Australia. I don't think it's wise to make any decisions based on a sample size that small. For example, Keldon Johnson played more minutes as a rookie and if we go by his numbers, we'd be counting on him to be a better version of Kawhi and we'd be celebrating his 100th percentile three-point jumper.
    Yeah i see it, looks like a spurs type project pick. Young, skills relative to age, tools for defensive upside ( athleticism, point guard reflexes/instincts ), decision making, projectable shooting, outlier athleticism for his size. He's just been dropping so much lately that the touch might not be there. His NBL shooting percentage is in line with his highschool percentage, except for the FT% which got lower. No in between game, no mid range pull up, no floater. Just don't see how he contributes early on while he works on his shot profile, strength and defense.

  4. #29
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Do you think that over time, in the next 5 years, that rules will change again and bigs will become a thing again? Or does the statastics are just too far in favour of shooting 3s?

  5. #30
    I want some NASTY! SpurPadre's Avatar
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    Do you think that over time, in the next 5 years, that rules will change again and bigs will become a thing again? Or does the statastics are just too far in favour of shooting 3s?
    In 5 years, we might be seeing 7 footers on the street begging for food or joining the circus.

  6. #31
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Do you think that over time, in the next 5 years, that rules will change again and bigs will become a thing again?
    Depends on the TV ratings for the near term . . .

    But over the long haul, it's hard to imagine the game of basketball in which really tall guys are not at the top of the heap.

    And as far as ratings go, the slam-dunk contest has always gotten higher ratings than the 3-point contest.

  7. #32
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    I'm fairly certain your percentage assesments of Poku are way off. Guys with his combination of (not-stiffness with size) + (feel for the game) + (skills) + (youth) only end out of the NBA if they get injured /off court stuff (eg. cocaine) or have absolutely no physical development from 18 onwards... IMO, there's a 75% chance of becoming at a minimum a bench big. 50% chance of becoming a started in the long term, and 10% chance he becomes a star.
    135%. Sweet.

  8. #33
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I don't think he meant for those % to be added up, tbh.

    In his opinion, Poku has a 75% chance of being at least a bench player. 50% chance of being a starter. And 10% of being a star.

  9. #34
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    Do you think that over time, in the next 5 years, that rules will change again and bigs will become a thing again? Or does the statastics are just too far in favour of shooting 3s?
    Bigs still are a thing. The 3 of 4 quarter finalists this year - Jokic, Bam, Davis...

    If you count KD as a big - he is 6'11" or so... they never went away.

  10. #35
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    The definitions overlap...

  11. #36
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Hey timvp, what do you think the chances are of each of these combo guards, you have in your top 10, of being as good or better than Derrick White?
    Ball and Edwards will probably be Better than White. I'd give them both about a 60-70% chance (which is pretty low for the best two players in the draft -- but this is a really weak draft at the top). Haliburton and Vassell are probably both about 40-50%. Hampton is probably only around like 20% -- but his actual ceiling is really high. If we're talking ceilings, I'd say all those guys have a higher ceiling than White other than possibly Vassell.

    But, I mean, I don't think having White should stop the Spurs from going after White-like players. How many White clones would you take on this team before you say the Spurs have too many? I'd probably take like five or six, tbh

  12. #37
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Do you think that over time, in the next 5 years, that rules will change again and bigs will become a thing again? Or does the statastics are just too far in favour of shooting 3s?
    That's a tough question. Logically, you'd think that centers becoming perimeter oriented is the future. In a perfect world, your center is big enough and skilled enough in the post to force the other team to put their best interior defender on him -- but then is also skilled enough on the perimeter to drag that aforementioned interior defender out to the three-point line. If you remove the other teams best interior defender, then your offense will find the sledding to be easy.

    But, then again, once the next Shaq comes along, that could all go out of the window. In the Shaq era, teams had to carry at least two or three burly seven-footers or else he'd crush them. You drop Shaq into today's NBA and suddenly all the unemployed seven-foot brutes would find work again. And then there was Duncan, who always feasted on undersized bigs. Unskilled mountains like Diop were rosterable back then because they'd at least make Duncan work.

    So, yeah, for now when there are literally no bigs in the league who can win a playoff game from the post, it's difficult to justify paying a traditional center even half of the MLE. That will probably change at some point but it's impossible to know if that will be in three years or thirty years.

  13. #38
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    Nah, ST is fine. It's amazing how well folks get along here rather than in other forums that repress hostility so much. A lot of people who are used to heavy moderation have a low tolerance for certain things because when it comes up on their sites, it causes this big stir, with mods running in to ban posters, threads getting closed, warnings getting issued. A thread like that one about MKE protested would've been banned within a day on RGM for being "divisive" or "off-topic". Here it stayed around, folks who wanted to engage in it did so, those who didn't just used different threads, and everyone moved on with their lives.

    Plus it feel so much better being able to go at posters here without fear of mods.
    It also feels like you get more genuine takes here. Other sites have much more of a mob-homerism mentality where everyone agrees with the same vanilla bull .

  14. #39
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    It also feels like you get more genuine takes here. Other sites have much more of a mob-homerism mentality where everyone agrees with the same vanilla bull .
    Yeah, and that's because folks are able to defend their takes and can hold the views publicly without worrying about being labeled a troll by an overly sensitive community. It also helps that the mods here don't flex very often. I've yet to see any of them try to direct conversation from the perspective of a mod, like trying to keep things on topic or whatever. If they want to close a thread or move something, they just do it. That not only makes folks feel freer, but it let's the forum police itself more than a place like RGM, where that's consider side-seat moderating and specifically not allowed.

    All in all, so long as the spamming (both of threads and of posts in threads) is kept down and no one breaks the law, ST runs perfectly. Though I guess it would be nice if it didn't cut out so much.
    Last edited by Chinook; 09-16-2020 at 05:15 PM.

  15. #40
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    It also feels like you get more genuine takes here. Other sites have much more of a mob-homerism mentality where everyone agrees with the same vanilla bull .
    i agree! go spurs!

  16. #41
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    It also feels like you get more genuine takes here. Other sites have much more of a mob-homerism mentality where everyone agrees with the same vanilla bull .
    Spurstalk is not so far off ... You have plenty of people here taking timvp's scouting reports/ big board as if it's gospel and as if he's an expert

  17. #42
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    Spurstalk is not so far off ... You have plenty of people here taking timvp's scouting reports/ big board as if it's gospel and as if he's an expert
    You also get a lot of people who ride him for his godawful takes when he makes them.

    saying the Grizz would beat the Spurs in 2013
    it still hurts

  18. #43
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Ball and Edwards will probably be Better than White. I'd give them both about a 60-70% chance (which is pretty low for the best two players in the draft -- but this is a really weak draft at the top). Haliburton and Vassell are probably both about 40-50%. Hampton is probably only around like 20% -- but his actual ceiling is really high. If we're talking ceilings, I'd say all those guys have a higher ceiling than White other than possibly Vassell.

    But, I mean, I don't think having White should stop the Spurs from going after White-like players. How many White clones would you take on this team before you say the Spurs have too many? I'd probably take like five or six, tbh
    Imho, Vassell is more of a wing (2, 3), than a combo guard (1, 2).

    And regarding how many Whites I would be cool with, that's what I'm trying to figure out, tbh. Is it really worth it to draft another White having so many other folks at that position? If you tell me we would be drafting the next Lillard, then I'm all for it, but another very good, not quite all-star, guard? I don't know man.

    I would undoubtedly be cool with another White lite player at the forward position though. Another White at guard doesn't move the needle much. A White at Forward? That's a game changer, imho. That's why I'm so against drafting a combo guard. The player would need to be an all-star to make a difference, while a solid role player at forward would be enough to elevate this team's ceiling a couple levels, imho.

  19. #44
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    That's a tough question. Logically, you'd think that centers becoming perimeter oriented is the future. In a perfect world, your center is big enough and skilled enough in the post to force the other team to put their best interior defender on him -- but then is also skilled enough on the perimeter to drag that aforementioned interior defender out to the three-point line. If you remove the other teams best interior defender, then your offense will find the sledding to be easy.

    But, then again, once the next Shaq comes along, that could all go out of the window. In the Shaq era, teams had to carry at least two or three burly seven-footers or else he'd crush them. You drop Shaq into today's NBA and suddenly all the unemployed seven-foot brutes would find work again. And then there was Duncan, who always feasted on undersized bigs. Unskilled mountains like Diop were rosterable back then because they'd at least make Duncan work.

    So, yeah, for now when there are literally no bigs in the league who can win a playoff game from the post, it's difficult to justify paying a traditional center even half of the MLE. That will probably change at some point but it's impossible to know if that will be in three years or thirty years.
    It’ll also depend on whether or not the league takes a step back to allowing physicality and defense again. Even just a small step back in that direction would bring a ton of value to bigs.

    I wonder if there’s a point of diminishing returns where this game ends up becoming a street ball game that largely consisting of a FT shooting contest in between the fewer and fewer moments of unguarded offense. All this soccer flopping and ticky tack gets old. Neutering the physicality of the game is/was a huge contributing factor to the decline of bigs.

  20. #45
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    Yeah the full swing to 3 pointers really neutered the game I miss the old days where people could guard people and bigs where still valuable.

  21. #46
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Physicality is tricky. It’s super soft on the perimeter with weak fouls for sure. But in the interior...it is basically no blood/no foul, right?

  22. #47
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    That's a tough question. Logically, you'd think that centers becoming perimeter oriented is the future. In a perfect world, your center is big enough and skilled enough in the post to force the other team to put their best interior defender on him -- but then is also skilled enough on the perimeter to drag that aforementioned interior defender out to the three-point line. If you remove the other teams best interior defender, then your offense will find the sledding to be easy.

    But, then again, once the next Shaq comes along, that could all go out of the window. In the Shaq era, teams had to carry at least two or three burly seven-footers or else he'd crush them. You drop Shaq into today's NBA and suddenly all the unemployed seven-foot brutes would find work again. And then there was Duncan, who always feasted on undersized bigs. Unskilled mountains like Diop were rosterable back then because they'd at least make Duncan work.

    So, yeah, for now when there are literally no bigs in the league who can win a playoff game from the post, it's difficult to justify paying a traditional center even half of the MLE. That will probably change at some point but it's impossible to know if that will be in three years or thirty years.
    Embid is that big you describe and yet we know what happened there. I'm talking rule changes. Imagine you couldn't arm check a big in the post lol.

  23. #48
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Yeah the full swing to 3 pointers really neutered the game I miss the old days where people could guard people and bigs where still valuable.
    I just missed when teams had their own style. The way the Pistons and Spurs played was different to the Kings, Mavs, and Suns. It made coaching in particular more important. A lot of chest being played. Pgs were also important at controlling the pace. That's what I missed the most.

  24. #49
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antoni...t-big-board-1/

    Who's too high? Who's too low?

    I'll probably end up doing a handful of these as the draft approaches. It sounds like we'll get genuine measurements and some athletic testing at some point, which will cause movement on the Big Board.
    timvp would love to see your updated Big Board which I’m sure your’e working on.

    9 of the top 10 picks seem almost universal now, with in no particular order:
    Ball, Wiseman, Edwards, Okungwu, Avdija, Toppin, Okoro, Hayes, Haliburton.

  25. #50
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    I think you have Wiseman too low based on where I believe SA will actually have him.

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