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Folks from before the 70's weren't ranked, I think.
black players will never give manu his due. it's like IT saying people only cared about bird because he was white. sports are very racist
Folks from before the 70's weren't ranked, I think.
Looks like not everyone rides the short bus. Not everyone is a card-carrying Krew member. People outside of ST laughing at the idea of Manu being the second best Spur. Dude never even averaged 20 PPG or 5 APG, lol. Great bench player though, gotta admit.
Dude - again with the ing stats - this guy never played full minutes so you can't expect him to crack 20 pts average in his career. Math indicates he could have reached those numbers easily had he played to pad his numbers.
People analyzing Manu on the standpoint of numbers are missing the point, more than with any other player of his caliber.
This guys is CLEARLY anywhere between top 30 to 50. Not sure top 30 since we can come up with a pretty decent list from 0 to 30.
sports journalists trying to put their names out there by churning out contrarian opinions just for the sake of having an alternative opinion are disgusting. I don't know how these people enjoy splitting teeny tiny hairs to create the illusion of intelligence. You've got guys like Rob Perez and Matt Moore and then you've got guys like this and Cris Carter.
You've also got emotional lesbians like that Project Spurs homer Quixem Ramirez.
I don't think it's a big argument in whether he is top 30 or not.
He's a HOF, which is all that really matters.
If you go by skill, he's top 30 in my book.
If you go by NBA accomplishments, he's not top 30 in my book.
If you go by top closers in the game, he's top 5.
If you go by influence/contributions to the game, he's top 5.
If you go enjoyable to watch, he's probably top 5.
Manu obviously doesn't have the PPG stats, but his Plus/Minus, VORP, and Win Shares per 36 minutes are all Top 50 of all-time in both playoffs and regular season. PER is 65th all-time.
The guy was a winner, plain and simple. He made things happen that others couldn't. On the all-time SG list, I'd probably only put MJ, Kobe, Wade, and maybe Drexler above him.
Agreed! Excellent post! Two has-been NFL players spouting nonsense! Smh
Why? The NBA didn't begin with Jordan. Just like boxing didn't begin with Ali, Tyson, Leonard or Mayweather jr.
Sure, but come on man. Kobe and Wade were way better. Don't be a homer
Iverson was a way better player. Other (modern) guys in the conversation include Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Allan Houston, Michael Finley to name a few
Stanley Sharpe? WGAF?
I don't like comparing the advanced metrics for all time greatness because Manu could never handle 40 MPG over his entire career. You can't play the way he played and not get seriously hurt. So he was perfect as a bench spark plug but to have a guy crash into everyone in the paint for 40 minutes a game and he would have torn an acl or shattered an ankle by the time he was 28.
Tony's NBA career accomplishments are certainly better than Manu's, but the inclusion of international ball makes up for the gap imo.
I would be shocked if either of them made it to the second ballot and absolutely floored if it took a third. Tony's HoF case will be similar to Pau's but a bit stronger due to the FMVP award and four top-10 finishes in MVP voting, while Manu's international accomplishments are so impressive and unique that the combination of that and his NBA career will get him in quickly.
For what it's worth, bkref has Tony with a 93.9% HoF probability, Pau 93.3%, Manu 20.0%. But the inclusion of Manu's success in Italy and with the Argentina national team should put him in. That gold medal carries a lot of weight.
https://www.basketball-reference.com.../hof_prob.html
Last edited by Seventyniner; 08-29-2018 at 02:34 PM.
And who is saying they aren't? Do you understand what my sig says?
Iverson is a better basketball player than Manu and most everyone in the NBA. He's not great on teams, but his individual abilities in his prime were off the charts. His speed and ability to shoot...dude was incredible to watch. If he were a few inches taller, he'd be better than both Lebron and Jordan. Again, individual talent-wise. He was certainly not going to win an NBA le.
He also played in a different era, where loyalty to one's city and the team that drafted him was held higher in regard versus ring chasing. Players and people in general had more loyalty back then. Now in the social media age every one wants to be an icon, and that means ring chasing a la KD. No one sees any glory in winning in the small town market that trusted you enough to draft and develop you as a 19 year old. Iverson could have definitely won a ring in today's era, if clones like Kyrie Irving (who is basically the 2018 Stephon Marbury) can win rings alongside players like LeBron. If Iverson played in today's game he would be eve more amazing with the lack of physical defense and defenders in general. He would be on a super team paired with a guy like LeBron or Anthony Davis or whatever and nobody would label him as a cancer, just as another awesome baller.
That being said, Argies gonna Argie. Just respect Manu for what he is/was. A great, great ball player, certainly a hall of famer, an icon for his style of play, a great steward/ambassador of the game, selfless personality who chose to win at all costs including his own personal glory. One of the best if not the best international players of all time to play in the NBA. And in the conversation among the game's all time great SGs. But not above guys who were clearly better players.
COME OWLN SKIIILP!!
Shannon's always good for a laugh. Takes, nah.
So, is he really that great, then?
Also, great hability to shoot what? 40% from the field, 30% from 3 and 75% from FT's?
"Argies gonna Argie"Realizing Manu was a better basketball player than Iverson has nothing to do with nationalities you xenophibic mofo. Tell me one ing thing Iverson was better than Manu at, other than speed. Just one ing thing.
Swap Manu and Iverson in the '04 Olympics and team USA wins by 30. That's how much better Manu was than Iverson as a basketball player.
All stats have blind spots or shortcomings, but advanced stats like Win Shares and BPM, especially when measured over a longer period of time, show pure effectiveness on the court free from sentimentality, perception, Public Relations, etc., etc.
It's not a coincidence that Manu was usually near the top of the league in these stats during his prime.
Awards like Finals MVP are overrated. The award in '07 easily could've gone to Duncan instead of Parker, and if the Spurs had pulled out the win in '13, it might've gone to Danny Green. Manu was an integral part of a championship level team for more than a solid decade. That means much more than a single award.
It’s like listenning a spurstalk post
No value under my roof in Shannon sharpes opinion. I feel fortunate Manu was a leader on my favorite team and sure that he is a first ballot HOF’er.
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