Reply With Quote
In all fairness - you and lefty are essentially the same en y on this forum
I mean you agree on everything, constantly.
to clarify, I actually liked mark price a lot. I think he would be successful in any era. and I like him a lot more than I like trae young. but they skill levels between the two simply aren't comparable.
I don't believe in trae's playing style at all. I also don't think a team could win a championship with him as the #1. his size simply limits him too much. but to deny that he has an exceptional level of talent and skill would be silly. and to think mark price could have the same level of success even if given the same type of offense would be ridiculous. as solid of a player as he was, he simply had too many limitations compared to modern elite guards.
also to think mark price would have even a chance at making 1st team all NBA in an era rich with fantastic guards like Luka, Harden, Steph, Dame, Butler, Russ, CP3, Kemba, Klay, etc... would just be absurd.
In all fairness - you and lefty are essentially the same en y on this forum
I mean you agree on everything, constantly.
Last edited by Dirks_Finale; 12-17-2020 at 10:03 AM.
Yes, and we had talented bigs back then who could post you up and score at will. Now bigs are stretch players who would be lost downlow.
Different game. Better? Depends on perception. But yes, quality guards are more plentiful now. Doesn't detract from Price's ability to shoot the rock well, from anywhere on the floor. What I think it is - is that he is a white dude so people with all their stereotypes assume that he was a bum. (plumber, etc)
We just both believe in logic instead of media driven narrativesIn all fairness - you and lefty are essentially the same en y on this forum
I mean you agree on everything, constantly.
while there was definitely a stretch where there werent many good bigs in the mid-to-late 00's, there are plenty of talented bigs now too. they simply are not showcased anywhere near as much as they were in the 80s and 90s where basically every offense was ran through the low post out of habit. even crappy post up players had a ton of offense ran through them, simply because it was the norm. additionally with allowing zone defensive schemes to be used, it completely changes how big men are defended, is a big reason why there is far less offense ran out of the low post, and is a big reason why teams with undersized centers (which you frequently joke about) can effectively defend the paint. lets also not fall into the media driven narrative that every 90s big man was dominant down low like Shaq. in fact, most of the top big men in the 90s, operated very similarly to how AD and Joker operates, only without shooting 3s. Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem all were known for facing up and shooting mid range jumpers and/or frequently working out of the high post unless facing a size mismatch. malone was a PnR big, who on switches would then dominate with his size, but when faced with legit defenders would often settle for jumpers.
shaq was simply an anomaly and freak of nature. but no one was anything like him. pretty much any other big man who worked primarily in the low post, did so because they were big and had virtually no other skills.
i never said anything to detract from price. i also never assumed any stereotype. ive always thought quite highly of him in fact. he was basically a smaller, and a little less skilled version of steve nash.
My thing with Trae is that he plays so damn stupid. He's young and he has talent and can shoot the ball, but has no idea how to really play the game as of yet. His answer to everything is to shoot from further back. They guard him 25 feet out so he shoots from 30. But that style of play freezes out his teammates and gets them out of rhythm. He puts Collins out of position just by his play.
But a lot of that is ty coaching tbh and that plays a lot into his stupid style. Like why is Dedmon averaging so many shots and shooting so many 3s? Same for Jabari Parker, why is he jacking up 12 shots a game? The entire offense is a mess and I can't help but feel that's partly because Trae can't run a proper one like Mark could. Getting people in spots where they can succeed is the goal of point guards and very few did it better than Mark Price. If Trae had Price's smarts then he would be a monster.
I agree that Mark Price wouldn't be all nba first team, but he would still make a team putting up those kinda stats. Plus his points per game would probably go up to about 20-23ish just because they would coach him to shoot more 3s than he did. Like Trae averages ten 3point FGA per game. That's a ridiculous amount.
tbh my point wasn't really even to compare the two of them. they aren't similar players at all. and if I we're building a team, I'd much rather have price than trae because of many of the things you mentioned.
I only brought up trae because he's a guard who has had exceptional success, popularity, and is incredibly skilled, yet didn't make any All-NBA team, while Price who clearly wouldn't make 1st team All-NBA in the modern NBA (if any at all), made first team in his day (and it wasn't like a Nash situation where his team went from being 29 wins to 62 wins by adding him). the talent levels of the league from about 1991-2003 was pretty low compared to other eras, and especially this era.
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/12/14/to...21-daily-cover
Top ten out and LBJ gets 1 even though not deserved.
I'm not sure if the talent level was really low as compared to the talent was more towards the big man. I mean Robinson, Barkley, Mailman, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Kemp were pretty elite players. Grant Hill was an elite player too before injuries took their toll along with Scotty. Just to name a few (of course Jordan too
I agree though it was a weaker time for point guards. Magic and Isiah were s s of themselves or out of the league. And there is a pretty big drop off from Magic and Zeke to Stockton and Price and Kj and Tim Hardaway. Penny was supposed to be that next great point guard and people often forget about that. Like if Penny's career wasn't derailed then that 90's point guard class doesn't look that bad tbh with a young J-Kidd in there as well as the glove
thats convenient
not as convenient as saying "the 90s are the best era ever because it had a bunch of greats who would easily win 10 in a row in this era but only couldnt because they faced mike!thats convenient"
or perhaps many of the 90s stars simply werent as good as people thought they were
thankfully around 2003-2005 guys like kobe, TD, dirk, nash and KG helped lift the talent levels of the league back up as they hit their primes, and then several classes of talent were drafted around the same time
Mark Price had more skills than Curry, tbh. He'd be a 3x MVP in Today's NBA.
Dirk took Neo's manhood and anal virginity in one fell swoop.
This is actually a solid post with many valid points.
When I refer to quality bigs from that era, I am also talking about how they could actually put a body on people and protect the rim on the other end. That's an art form in and of itself because not everyone does/did it well in any era and it's something we see less of now, obviously, because of how much the dynamics of the game has changed with bigs having to step out to defend the 3.
Let me ask you and lefty, or anyone else here who cares to reply - do you get tired of watching 3 point contests every night? I get the value of the 3 point shot now. It has been estimated that in order for a 2 point basket to be as valuable as a 3 in today's game, it needs to be hit at at a 60% clip. So you shoot a bunch of 3's or you lose, basically. Pop has said there is no beauty in this and called it boring. And I agree with him. I'll take a 78-77 Spurs vs Pistons Finals game from 2005 over this current game any day, tbqh.
Last edited by Dirks_Finale; 12-17-2020 at 06:18 PM.
And we had those players in previous eras. JWill and Antoine Walker. Back then it drove coaches crazy. Now it is heralded.
What would Trae average in the 90's without all the ticky tack fouls?
So you think lefty really had mark price as his plumber and not saying it as a joke? Sure.
did anyone?
No it’s not. Changing systems, rules, defensive focus etc of different eras all have impact on stat inflation.if you are comparing inflated stats on an individual basis, such as one player simply having more of an opportunity to shoot, that's one thing.
but the specific word you used was "nowadays", which seemed to indicate you were comparing eras. if that's the case, then yes inflated possessions are probably about the only legitimate, factual comparison that exists, while everything else you might try to argue ("no one plays any defense anymor
lol condescending much? tbh i am starting to second guess myself if you actually agree considering your history around here of having some of the stupidest opinions ever seen on spurstalkThis is actually a solid post with many valid points.
so basically they were able to do it because the playing style allowed them to, while the modern playing style wouldn't allow them to do so nearly as effectively. therefore, by your evaluation of "quality bigs" of the 90s, they would be of less quality in the modern game, bringing them to a comparable level of "quality" as other modern bigs - by your aforementioned evaluation that is. got it
it depends. i loved how golden state played. sure they shot a lot of threes, not just for the sake of shooting them, but because they were exceedingly proficient at it. GS also had a heavy focus on attacking the paint (it is one of stephs most underrated and underappreciated skills) for easy buckets, incredible play-calling, constant off-ball movement, and they did a masterful job of attacking mismatches. id say that the 2014-2016 warriors arguably played the most "beautiful" offense ive ever seen.
however, i do not like how teams like houston or atlanta plays at all. they play stat-padding offensive schemes that works against crappy teams, or good teams that simply dont care much about the regular season.
dallas is another example of a team that launches a lot of 3s, but they have a well executed system that makes them pretty entertaining to watch. Miami is very fun to watch too.
fact is, it comes down to a matter of personal preference. but imo, the issues with todays games are ultimately the same as always. you have a few teams that execute a well ran offense that people love to watch, and the rest of the league is basically boring to watch because they simply aren't that good, or they spam the heck out of whatever system is popular. in the 80s to the mid 90s, most teams would just dump it into the low-post and let them go iso until the defense sends a double team. in the late 90s to early/mid 10s, most teams would just let their best guard/wing go iso from the perimeter. then over the past few years we've seen a transition to outgunning your opponent with 3s. but throughout it all, you had some teams that played a better brand of basketball, and they were always the ones winning championships. so i dont understand why people want to be critical of the modern generation for the same thing that their own generations were guilty of. if someone simply doesnt like the style, so be it. but just because you dont like the style, doesnt mean the players or that the quality is poor. that would be as ridiculous as someone who loves steak complaining about a wagyu steak not being "what im used to" and then saying "its poor quality steak".
believing ticky tack fouls didnt exist in the 90s when no player has benefitted more in NBA history from ticky tack fouls than the GOAT himself who dominated in the 90s
you compared his saying that to being an accusation that mark price "sucked". but if its in "jest", that would make it a joke. so what makes it immediately mean lefty was inferring "mark price sucks"? i've never understood that saying something "in jest" means "100% serious" or "an absolutely intended insult".
but perhaps you should simply ask him if he thinks mark price sucks since splitting hairs to make your point on this aspect of the conversation seems to mean so much to you.
ah yes, but apparently its too illogical that the statistical difference between two players could possibly be a result of one player being far superior to the other
yeah except neither of those guys were anywhere near as good of a shooter as a guy like trae is. if they could actually shoot like him, dame, steph or harden, they may well have been heralded like they are
go back to crying about how the election was rigged for biden, or whatever other re ed crap you believe in
Read what I wrote. I said lefty said Mark Price sucked by saying he is his plumber in jest. Do I have to draw a diagram now? You stupid .
Or maybe you can just go and read.
Did I say that?ah yes, but apparently its too illogical that the statistical difference between two players could possibly be a result of one player being far superior to the other
lol condescending much? tbh i am starting to second guess myself if you actually agree considering your history around here of having some of the stupidest opinions ever seen on spurstalk
so basically they were able to do it because the playing style allowed them to, while the modern playing style wouldn't allow them to do so nearly as effectively. therefore, by your evaluation of "quality bigs" of the 90s, they would be of less quality in the modern game, bringing them to a comparable level of "quality" as other modern bigs - by your aforementioned evaluation that is. got it
it depends. i loved how golden state played. sure they shot a lot of threes, not just for the sake of shooting them, but because they were exceedingly proficient at it. GS also had a heavy focus on attacking the paint (it is one of stephs most underrated and underappreciated skills) for easy buckets, incredible play-calling, constant off-ball movement, and they did a masterful job of attacking mismatches. id say that the 2014-2016 warriors arguably played the most "beautiful" offense ive ever seen.
however, i do not like how teams like houston or atlanta plays at all. they play stat-padding offensive schemes that works against crappy teams, or good teams that simply dont care much about the regular season.
dallas is another example of a team that launches a lot of 3s, but they have a well executed system that makes them pretty entertaining to watch. Miami is very fun to watch too.
fact is, it comes down to a matter of personal preference. but imo, the issues with todays games are ultimately the same as always. you have a few teams that execute a well ran offense that people love to watch, and the rest of the league is basically boring to watch because they simply aren't that good, or they spam the heck out of whatever system is popular. in the 80s to the mid 90s, most teams would just dump it into the low-post and let them go iso until the defense sends a double team. in the late 90s to early/mid 10s, most teams would just let their best guard/wing go iso from the perimeter. then over the past few years we've seen a transition to outgunning your opponent with 3s. but throughout it all, you had some teams that played a better brand of basketball, and they were always the ones winning championships. so i dont understand why people want to be critical of the modern generation for the same thing that their own generations were guilty of. if someone simply doesnt like the style, so be it. but just because you dont like the style, doesnt mean the players or that the quality is poor. that would be as ridiculous as someone who loves steak complaining about a wagyu steak not being "what im used to" and then saying "its poor quality steak".
You don't take compliments very well, I see.
There are no real rivalries, Neo. That makes things interesting.
Why do you think that is? Could it have anything to do with the lack of physicality/chippiness? Star player used to want to rip your head off; now they all want to play together and go for boatrides.
You can mention Cavs/GSW and call it a rivalry - but it never gave me that feel because I had no doubt that if Lebron had the chance he would go suit up for the Warriors or anybody else who had a stacked, ready made le team, tbh.
touchy touchy
already did. he didnt say mark price sucks. thanks for playing
never said you did
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
