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  1. #26
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    houston in 6 both years

  2. #27
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
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    yeah i feel the matchup is tougher (for the rockets) in 94 than 95, but the rockets matchup problems were definitely an issue.

    also the mental aspect. winning 3 in a row was difficult enough and you could already see burnout settling in, compared to a hungry team that hadn't won it all yet. add in the fact that the bulls would no longer be the more talented team by miles (compared to all of their previous opponents they had faced, some of whom they still struggled against), and id say all of that gives the rockets the overall edge in the matchup.
    Burnout more than lack of talent is why o never bought the MJ Bulls could have win 8 straight narratives

  3. #28
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    '94 Pippen MVP candidate + Jordan

    Is arguably greatest Duo ever

  4. #29
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple tbh, MJ just won't lose in the finals. Just the way he's wired I guess.

  5. #30
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple tbh, MJ just won't lose in the finals. Just the way he's wired I guess.
    It's hard to lose against ty Finals oopponents tbh

  6. #31
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    It's hard to lose against ty Finals oopponents tbh
    dont fall for the obvious troll job. no one can be stupid enough to actually believe what he wrote.








    actually, nvm

  7. #32
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    It's hard to lose against ty Finals oopponents tbh
    91 Lakers swept Hakeem

    Kemp's Sonics eliminated Hakeem twice including a sweep

    97 Jazz eliminated Hakeem

    98 Jazz eliminated Hakeem

  8. #33
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    91 Lakers swept Hakeem

    Kemp's Sonics eliminated Hakeem twice including a sweep

    97 Jazz eliminated Hakeem

    98 Jazz eliminated Hakeem
    Great logic
    Will share with Skip and SAS

  9. #34
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Great logic
    Will share with Skip and SAS


    FS1 ruined "Speak for Yourself"

  10. #35
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Horace Grant was 15/11 for Chicago the previous season. I think he even made the all star team.

    If he is on that 95 Bulls team(he stays if MJ stays imo) then they beat the Rockets in 7.

    Would have been toughest Final's opponent for Chicago because of their matchup issues with them. But they still pull it out. Phil let's Dream get 40 and clamps down on everyone else. Series.

  11. #36
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Horace Grant was 15/11 for Chicago the previous season. I think he even made the all star team.

    If he is on that 95 Bulls team(he stays if MJ stays imo) then they beat the Rockets in 7.

    Would have been toughest Final's opponent for Chicago because of their matchup issues with them. But they still pull it out. Phil let's Dream get 40 and clamps down on everyone else. Series.
    Grant hated jordan. Jordan was the primary reason he left the bulls and he was ecstatic when they beat the bulls in 95.

  12. #37
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Grant hated jordan. Jordan was the primary reason he left the bulls and he was ecstatic when they beat the bulls in 95.
    True, but like Pippen, he liked winning.

  13. #38
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    True, but like Pippen, he liked winning.
    Nah he really ing hated Jordan and wanted out. No way he was ever turning down the chance to go play with Shaq and Penny.

  14. #39
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    I thought Grant left for more money

  15. #40
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Horace wins 5 straight Rings and he's probably in the NBA Hall of Fame. Even he would recognize the value in staying with MJ.

  16. #41
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    HomerKing. That Bulls team had no chance against the 95 Rockets. Dream would have shown his ass...scoring, kick outs, defense...there was no answer. Double teams? lmao. Come on man.

  17. #42
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    True, but like Pippen, he liked winning.
    Jordan needed grant and Pippen as well. Pippen is obvious, but grant was instrumental in holding the paint on defense and he that rebounder for the bulls in the first three peat. Jordan’s failure to understand that helps explain why he’s been such a terrible GM.

    I thought Grant left for more money
    That’s part of it, but grant hated jordan for the continuous disrespect and the lie of him being a source for the jordan rules. Grant also wanted to have a bigger role on offense. I remembered reading an article back in the day how Harvey grant wanted to win and Horace grant wanted a bigger role like Harvey with the bullets.

    But jordan rubbed a lot of his teammates the wrong way, he wouldn’t have won anything if phil Jackson didn’t help turn their collective animosity towards the GM and have at least some form of cohesiveness.


    Horace wins 5 straight Rings and he's probably in the NBA Hall of Fame. Even he would recognize the value in staying with MJ.
    This is a pretty bad take. Grant had enough of jordan at that point. Pippen was able to get some level of respect from jordan (or so he thought) but everybody else was routinely disrespected by jordan. People always try to stretch that jordan was the leader of those bulls but Pippen and Jackson did way more than jordan. Jordan was actively do ented to cause all types of unnecessarily friction in the locker room. He also had penis envy on Pippen because of Madonna.

  18. #43
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Putting aside the debate of what Horace would have done. Let's all agree his decision to leave Chicago was a terrible one in hindsight. Went from center piece of one of American sports greatest dynasties to barely remembered "that guy with the goggles". Truly sad for someone that endured the difficult foundation building phase.

    Pippen stuck it out and will forever be arguably overrated in History's eyes.

  19. #44
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Putting aside the debate of what Horace would have done. Let's all agree his decision to leave Chicago was a terrible one in hindsight. Went from center piece of one of American sports greatest dynasties to barely remembered "that guy with the goggles". Truly sad for someone that endured the difficult foundation building phase.

    Pippen stuck it out and will forever be arguably overrated in History's eyes.
    Not sure why that is the case. Pippen is about one of the most underrated players in NBA history. The guy has alpha talent in a beta mindset, and yet he will forever be rated as a beta talent with a beta mindset. Grant got his four rings, he got more All-NBA team votes in Orlando than he got in Chicago, he continued to get all-D second team in Orlando, he's happier (according to himself), and most importantly, he got paid. He made $41.8M in 5 seasons with the Magic, compared to $7.48 in 6 seasons with the Bulls. In fact, his highest paid season in Orlando is TWICE his total pay with the Bulls. He was routinely underappreciated by the Bulls (especially Jordan) and he was right.

    For someone who is supposed to be a Bulls fan, I am shocked at how little you know about your team.

  20. #45
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    Nothing is getting "settled" in this thread.

  21. #46
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    The thing is Dream was at his absolute peak. No one could handle him in the playoffs. What are the Bulls going to do to contain him?
    Nothing, take it to everyone else on the other end.

  22. #47
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Not sure why that is the case. Pippen is about one of the most underrated players in NBA history. The guy has alpha talent in a beta mindset, and yet he will forever be rated as a beta talent with a beta mindset. Grant got his four rings, he got more All-NBA team votes in Orlando than he got in Chicago, he continued to get all-D second team in Orlando, he's happier (according to himself), and most importantly, he got paid. He made $41.8M in 5 seasons with the Magic, compared to $7.48 in 6 seasons with the Bulls. In fact, his highest paid season in Orlando is TWICE his total pay with the Bulls. He was routinely underappreciated by the Bulls (especially Jordan) and he was right.

    For someone who is supposed to be a Bulls fan, I am shocked at how little you know about your team.
    Horace didn't receive a significant pay raise to leave Chicago. Bringing his rookie contract into the conversation is pointless.



    It wasn't until Grant RESIGNED with Orlando that he was paid. And by then the Bulls were on Ring #2 without him

    Grant left Chicago before MJ returned. His decision had nothing to do with Jordan. He left because Phil didn't see him as an offensive weapon just a rebounder.

    Grant gambled that he was joining the next Dynasty and instead his former home turned into one! What a blunder on his part.

    Bulls clearly won this exchange. Horace let his ego defeat him and he probably lost a chance at the Hall of Fame because of it.

    Bottomline: 1 career All Star game and it was in Chicago

  23. #48
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Horace didn't receive a significant pay raise to leave Chicago. Bringing his rookie contract into the conversation is pointless.



    It wasn't until Grant RESIGNED with Orlando that he was paid. And by then the Bulls were on Ring #2 without him
    You said it was the wrong move, I came in a showed that he made much more money in Orlando, it is the right move. By the time Grant was making $14M a year, the Bulls were paying $30M a year to Jordan and there is nothing left for anyone. There was no way Grant would have made $14M a year with the Bulls if he stayed, and it won't even be particularly close to it.

    Grant left Chicago before MJ returned. His decision had nothing to do with Jordan. He left because Phil didn't see him as an offensive weapon just a rebounder.
    Him not getting touches is also true, but Grant has said multiple times how he hated Jordan and how Jordan paid no respect to anyone on the team. Grant had a deep hatred for the Bulls and Jordan was a huge reason why. Funny he had pretty much the same number of shots in the Magic compared to when he was with the Bulls, yet he was much happier, wonder why.

    Grant gambled that he was joining the next Dynasty and instead his former home turned into one! What a blunder on his part.
    What blunder? He got 4 rings. You see Pippen getting love? He got routinely underrated. The only people who got their credit with those Bulls teams were Jordan and Jackson. You think people will remember Grant if he stayed with the Bulls? Most people don't even remember Rodman and the only reason they remembered him is because of how crazy he is. You think anybody remembered John Paxson, and Cliff Levingston? Even guys like Ron Harper who were a huge part of the 2nd 3 peat?

    Bulls clearly won this exchange. Horace let his ego defeat him and he probably lost a chance at the Hall of Fame because of it.

    Bottomline: 1 career All Star game and it was in Chicago
    Grant will get into the Hall of Fame if he stayed with the Bulls? You name me another 12/8 player who made the HoF after the 70s. Anyone. Robert Horry won SEVEN rings, you see him in the Hall? John Salley? James Edwards? None of them made it. Horace Grant would have made the HoF if he stayed with the Bulls is about the most ludicrous thing I have heard. Why didn't Steve Kerr make it as a player? He got 3 rings with the Bulls and two more with the Spurs. You see him in the Hall?

  24. #49
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    You said it was the wrong move, I came in a showed that he made much more money in Orlando, it is the right move. By the time Grant was making $14M a year, the Bulls were paying $30M a year to Jordan and there is nothing left for anyone. There was no way Grant would have made $14M a year with the Bulls if he stayed, and it won't even be particularly close to it.



    Him not getting touches is also true, but Grant has said multiple times how he hated Jordan and how Jordan paid no respect to anyone on the team. Grant had a deep hatred for the Bulls and Jordan was a huge reason why. Funny he had pretty much the same number of shots in the Magic compared to when he was with the Bulls, yet he was much happier, wonder why.



    What blunder? He got 4 rings. You see Pippen getting love? He got routinely underrated. The only people who got their credit with those Bulls teams were Jordan and Jackson. You think people will remember Grant if he stayed with the Bulls? Most people don't even remember Rodman and the only reason they remembered him is because of how crazy he is. You think anybody remembered John Paxson, and Cliff Levingston? Even guys like Ron Harper who were a huge part of the 2nd 3 peat?



    Grant will get into the Hall of Fame if he stayed with the Bulls? You name me another 12/8 player who made the HoF after the 70s. Anyone. Robert Horry won SEVEN rings, you see him in the Hall? John Salley? James Edwards? None of them made it. Horace Grant would have made the HoF if he stayed with the Bulls is about the most ludicrous thing I have heard. Why didn't Steve Kerr make it as a player? He got 3 rings with the Bulls and two more with the Spurs. You see him in the Hall?

    I'm with you on some of this, but come on now...Harp was a washout by the time he went to Chicago. 3-D without the 3

  25. #50
    #FreeDerp Monostradamus's Avatar
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    In 94 the Bulls might not even get to the Finals, people forget how good that Knicks team was. They were a game away even with Ewing pulling the ultimate chokejob.

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