Shams: Spurs & Toronto Engaged in Serious Trade Talks Centered Around Kawhi & DeRozan

[Ariel]

Mfs really forgetting that teams were lowballing like crazy cuz Nephew's camp had made it know that there was a 100% chance of him bolting to LA. Even Lakers lowballed us thinking Nephew was guaranteed to land in their lap one way or another.

Fwiw, I do wish that we had rebuilt by trading for trash and picks instead of trying to compete with DDR. But it's not like PATFO were drowning in top tier trade offers and happened to chose the worst one. That's just some revisionist bs.

Yeah, cir stances matter, and at the time it was really difficult getting back equivalent value with everything going on. But my biggest gripe isn't so much with what we got, but with the direction that the team took, which set us back 3 years. That's not on Kawhi, and it wasn't all that difficult to see. Ainge figured it out much sooner, and from a much better starting point... so no excuses.

[BillMc]

A recap of the original trade and follow ups:

1. Traded Kawhi Leonard + Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan + Jakob Poeltl + Toronto's 2019 1st round pick.
2. Drafted Keldon Johnson using Toronto's 2019 1st (#29)
3. Got Detroit's 2022 1st by taking in Hutchinson
4. Traded DDR for Thaddeus Young + Al Farouq Aminu + Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8) + Lakers 2022 2nd + Chicago's 2025 2nd
5. Traded Thaddeus Young + Eubanks + Detroit's 2022 2nd for Toronto's 2022 1st + Goran Dragic
6. Drafted Branham using Toronto's 2022 1st (#20)
7. Traded Lakers' 2022 2nd for Lakers' 2024 2nd (by drafting Kennedy Chandler and trading his rights to Memphis)

So to this date the balance is something like this:
COSTS:

• One year's worth of Kawhi Leonard (was gone anyway)
• Danny Green (31 y.o.)
• Drew Eubanks ()
• took in the expiring contracts of Hutchinson, Aminu, Young (half a season) & Dragic (half a season)

BENEFITS:

• 3 seasons of DDR (hey... it's technically accurate...)
• Jakob Poeltl (4 seasons + whatever we can get for him)
• Keldon Johnson (Toronto's 2019 1st)
• Malaki Branham (Toronto's 2022 1st)
• Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8)
• Lakers' 2024 2nd
• Chicago's 2025 2nd

Probably the Spurs could have gotten a better deal for Kawhi in the first place, but in time and taking in consideration subsequent moves, the return for what would have been one season of a disgruntled and often injured Leonard doesn't seem too bad, does it?

And if you extrapolated it back to the original Hill trade for Kawhi and Bertans it becomes sort of amazing. For Hill we got X number years of Kawhi, 2 DPOY, a Final's MVP, 1 Ring + Y number of years of Davis all in addition to what you mentioned.

[Ditty]

Jakob > OG

[MarCowMar]

And if you extrapolated it back to the original Hill trade for Kawhi and Bertans it becomes sort of amazing. For Hill we got X number years of Kawhi, 2 DPOY, a Final's MVP, 1 Ring + Y number of years of Davis all in addition to what you mentioned.

I love tracing back to that original George Hill pick. It's like swapping a Gameboy into a house over several years.

Is there a more valuable pick in NBA history? Ginobili is the closest comparison I can think of, and there are some other late round picks that were very nice hits, but they didn't usually get cycled back into more picks. Maybe the Goebert or Dejounte trades will become comparable.

[CGD]

I love tracing back to that original George Hill pick. It's like swapping a Gameboy into a house over several years.

Is there a more valuable pick in NBA history? Ginobili is the closest comparison I can think of, and there are some other late round picks that were very nice hits, but they didn't usually get cycled back into more picks. Maybe the Goebert or Dejounte trades will become comparable.

White trade also has this potential. So far it’s netted Blake, Richardson, and maybe a decent swap in 2028 of Tatum leaves Boston by then.

Romeo May even be flippable soon.

[cjw]

And if you extrapolated it back to the original Hill trade for Kawhi and Bertans it becomes sort of amazing. For Hill we got X number years of Kawhi, 2 DPOY, a Final's MVP, 1 Ring + Y number of years of Davis all in addition to what you mentioned.

You forgot Demarre Carroll in your math!

[Leetonidas]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

[Ariel]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

It's true that if we go back we can trace every trade to the flapping of a butterfly's wings millions of years ago, but the point is that was the centerpiece of every asset listed there, so we wouldn't have had DDR/Poeltl/Keldon + subsequent assets, and that's a fact. Not sufficient, but necessary.

[exstatic]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

I once wrote a piece on how GH3 could well be the 3rd best draft pick in Spurs history. Parsed out the win shares of each player in the chain during their Spurs tenure, and that number came out higher than Tony Or Manus career WSs. Only Tim and David had higher WS numbers during the championship era.

[XDT76]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

In that case people should also stop saying Rap got the championship bcos of the trade, they later got M.Gasol who is top 3 in every categories in the playoff. It's not as if the Rap did nothing else after the Kawhi trade.

[TD 21]

In that case people should also stop saying Rap got the championship bcos of the trade, they later got M.Gasol who is top 3 in every categories in the playoff. It's not as if the Rap did nothing else after the Kawhi trade.

[MarCowMar]

Trying to modify the Kawhi trade to include all the things obtained years later after DD was traded it silly. Might as well go back and say the George Hill was the greatest trade of all time

Not saying it didn't even out over the years but the fact remains Spurs trade was Leonard and Green for DD/Jak/29. Adding Young and picks, etc made in subsequent moves is just face saving tbh

There's nothing silly at all about it--unless you qualify all of sports as silliness. A point I certainly don't dispute much.

It's simple analysis of a closed economic system where the inputs are draft picks and free signings.

The management of the George Hill pick is the highest value extraction of an NBA asset that I'm aware of and it's not yet reached its terminus. Of course each followup transaction can be evaluated individually, but the dependent origin of those transactions was George Hill from "ooey pooey" @ 26 back in 2008.

[Dex]

Gonna put this here...

Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Out Indefinitely Amid ACL Recovery


BUT THE SPURS DOCTORS WERE WRONG

[Mugen]

What a con job by Kawhi and Dennis tbh

I only wish the Spurs sent his ass to LAC earlier for SGA

[Mugen]

Gonna put this here...

Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Out Indefinitely Amid ACL Recovery


BUT THE SPURS DOCTORS WERE WRONG

It's fine to doubt the first 1 or 2 doctors. But when the next 8 tell you the same thing, you should probably listen. Still got PAID tho

[Atl Spur]

Gonna put this here...

Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard Out Indefinitely Amid ACL Recovery


BUT THE SPURS DOCTORS WERE WRONG

Nice!

[K...]

I Can't wipe my own ass is back with 6pts and

“Just rehabbing, getting ready," Leonard said of what he was going through since experiencing stiffness in his surgically repaired right knee on Oct. 25. "I'm not going to explain it because I'm not a doctor, and nobody in here is one. So just getting back, ready to get on the floor„

Same old, same ol kawhi bag

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...art-vs-pistons

“"After I played those first two games, it was dead already," Leonard said of his preference to start „

[exstatic]

It wouldn’t shock me if he were out of the league after this contract. He’ll be 34ish, and this is the second team he’s pulled this on. He’s owed a ton of money over next 3 seasons, and probably won’t earn a fraction of it.

[spurs1990]

I know I'm piling on but Derozan just lost to the Magic at home. Banchero didn't play for Orl. He has Vucevic, Caruson, Lavine, Patrick Williams, Dragic, Drummond... a solid cast. 41 pts and all.
To all the fans who said he didn't have enough help here

[exstatic]

I know I'm piling on but Derozan just lost to the Magic at home. Banchero didn't play for Orl. He has Vucevic, Caruson, Lavine, Patrick Williams, Dragic, Drummond... a solid cast. 41 pts and all.
To all the fans who said he didn't have enough help here

Chicago is 6-10. There’s no way that should be with that roster, so they may just be tanking. They owe this pick to Orlando unless it falls 1-4, so they could be tanking to save the pick and get a shot at Scoot or Wemby.

[spurs1990]

Chicago is 6-10. There’s no way that should be with that roster, so they may just be tanking. They owe this pick to Orlando unless it falls 1-4, so they could be tanking to save the pick and get a shot at Scoot or Wemby.

If that s is true that's tanking on a whole new plane.
San Antonio jettisons their starters in advance of a rebuild, while Chicago and Charlotte have a slew of high level players AND All-Stars and can't do any better than 6-10 and 4-13??

They're gaming the system and muddying up who deserves a chance at the corner stone prospects. Stern needs to get off his PR can and address this.

Spurs are left to 'work' their way in the grouping with the wretched Pistons and Rockets.

[exstatic]

If that s is true that's tanking on a whole new plane.
San Antonio jettisons their starters in advance of a rebuild, while Chicago and Charlotte have a slew of high level players AND All-Stars and can't do any better than 6-10 and 4-13??

They're gaming the system and muddying up who deserves a chance at the corner stone prospects. Stern needs to get off his PR can and address this.

Spurs are left to 'work' their way in the grouping with the wretched Pistons and Rockets.

David Stern is dead, and can no longer affect NBA policy.

Chicago is ridiculous, but Charlotte was only a play in team last year, and lost starters Trezz Harrell and Bridges. Ball has missed a lot of time, too.