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  1. #2451
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    Paul had 0 turnovers in game 6 and people are still hating on him
    Little point guards always get hated on man. IT and AI got plastered constantly by media, fans and even other players alike.

    If CP3 rings this year, he's third PG ever behind Magic and Isaiah. Oscar being fourth, Stockton being fifth.

    No one is even close to Magic though. Might be the most lopsided best and second best of any position in the NBA tbh lol.

  2. #2452
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    Little point guards always get hated on man. IT and AI got plastered constantly by media, fans and even other players alike.

    If CP3 rings this year, he's third PG ever behind Magic and Isaiah. Oscar being fourth, Stockton being fifth.

    No one is even close to Magic though. Might be the most lopsided best and second best of any position in the NBA tbh lol.
    That’s an interesting proposition.

    Although Oscar is often viewed as a top 10 caliber guy himself, while I think Zeke isn’t even considered top 20-25 to a lot of people. It’s a shame for those who didn’t really get to appreciate him the way Detroit fans did. He was basically a faster, better scoring mini version of Magic. Just watched that Bad Boys 30 for 30 again last night and relived some of those years, including that 25 point third quarter in game 6 of 1988 while he had a sprained ankle.

    As for that proposition... small forward maybe?

    I’m not even sure who would be third behind LeBron, Bird. Is it Dr. J? Durant? Elgin? Hondo? Guess it would depend whom you thought was third and how close you think he is to Bird.

  3. #2453
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    That’s an interesting proposition.

    Although Oscar is often viewed as a top 10 caliber guy himself, while I think Zeke isn’t even considered top 20-25 to a lot of people. It’s a shame for those who didn’t really get to appreciate him the way Detroit fans did. He was basically a faster, better scoring mini version of Magic. Just watched that Bad Boys 30 for 30 again last night and relived some of those years, including that 25 point third quarter in game 6 of 1988 while he had a sprained ankle.

    As for that proposition... small forward maybe?

    I’m not even sure who would be third behind LeBron, Bird. Is it Dr. J? Durant? Elgin? Hondo? Guess it would depend whom you thought was third and how close you think he is to Bird.
    Zeke is definitely underrated. The whole walking off the court in the Bulls series probably did him in in that regard, unfortunately. This guy was as tough and fearless as Iverson but with a much higher basketball IQ and leadership skills.

  4. #2454
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    Zeke is definitely underrated. The whole walking off the court in the Bulls series probably did him in in that regard, unfortunately. This guy was as tough and fearless as Iverson but with a much higher basketball IQ and leadership skills.
    It’s also media and fan overblown.

    It was a little glossed over in the 30 for 30 but not overlooked by Pistons fans. But when the Pistons finally got over on the Celtics in 88, the Celtics all walked off the court also with time left on the clock. However, there’s video of McHale shaking hands with Isiah so somehow that is remembered instead of Bird and the rest of the cast not shaking hands and just walking off. And Isiah even said, at that moment, they weren’t offended that the Celtics had walked off. They were like, oh , did we finally just beat them? But Jordan’s thin skinned ass had to feel all insulted over the same Larry had done because it was Isiah and the Bad Boys, and NOT video’d or at least not brought to attention was that Joe Dumars did trail behind and shake some of the Bulls players hands, just like McHale did. got twisted because the Pistons were national villains.

    So telling how the media shaped the perception of those two similar events.

  5. #2455
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    It’s also media and fan overblown.

    It was a little glossed over in the 30 for 30 but not overlooked by Pistons fans. But when the Pistons finally got over on the Celtics in 88, the Celtics all walked off the court also with time left on the clock. However, there’s video of McHale shaking hands with Isiah so somehow that is remembered instead of Bird and the rest of the cast not shaking hands and just walking off. And Isiah even said, at that moment, they weren’t offended that the Celtics had walked off. They were like, oh , did we finally just beat them? But Jordan’s thin skinned ass had to feel all insulted over the same Larry had done because it was Isiah and the Bad Boys, and NOT video’d or at least not brought to attention was that Joe Dumars did trail behind and shake some of the Bulls players hands, just like McHale did. got twisted because the Pistons were national villains.

    So telling how the media shaped the perception of those two similar events.
    Not to mention the Pistons walked off because the Bulls criticized the Pistons between games 3 and 4
    I’m sure Isiah and Co wouldn’t have walked off if the Bulls kept their mouth shut
    Last edited by lefty; 07-03-2021 at 01:11 PM.

  6. #2456
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    It’s also media and fan overblown.

    It was a little glossed over in the 30 for 30 but not overlooked by Pistons fans. But when the Pistons finally got over on the Celtics in 88, the Celtics all walked off the court also with time left on the clock. However, there’s video of McHale shaking hands with Isiah so somehow that is remembered instead of Bird and the rest of the cast not shaking hands and just walking off. And Isiah even said, at that moment, they weren’t offended that the Celtics had walked off. They were like, oh , did we finally just beat them? But Jordan’s thin skinned ass had to feel all insulted over the same Larry had done because it was Isiah and the Bad Boys, and NOT video’d or at least not brought to attention was that Joe Dumars did trail behind and shake some of the Bulls players hands, just like McHale did. got twisted because the Pistons were national villains.

    So telling how the media shaped the perception of those two similar events.
    Yup, pretty much this.

  7. #2457
    Defense Wins Championships Texas_Ranger's Avatar
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    giannis out.

  8. #2458
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    Not to mention the Pistons walked off because the Bulls criticized the Pistons between games 3 and 4
    I’m sure Isiah and Co wouldn’t have walked off if the Bulls kept their mouth shut
    Thank you. Specifically it was Michael. He was publicly quoted saying the Pistons were bad for basketball. And everyone outside of Detroit would be happy when they were gone. You put those thoughts out there in the media and then and whine about their bad sportsmanship. Yeah okay... But the media was all too happy to oblige his Airness.

    Funny though, in reality, as great as Jordan was, it was he who likely ruined basketball more than the Bad Boys. Kids all around the country started playing blackhole, midpost iso trying to be Like Mike. It was the slow death of team basketball. Because of Michael.

  9. #2459
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    That’s an interesting proposition.

    Although Oscar is often viewed as a top 10 caliber guy himself, while I think Zeke isn’t even considered top 20-25 to a lot of people. It’s a shame for those who didn’t really get to appreciate him the way Detroit fans did. He was basically a faster, better scoring mini version of Magic. Just watched that Bad Boys 30 for 30 again last night and relived some of those years, including that 25 point third quarter in game 6 of 1988 while he had a sprained ankle.

    As for that proposition... small forward maybe?

    I’m not even sure who would be third behind LeBron, Bird. Is it Dr. J? Durant? Elgin? Hondo? Guess it would depend whom you thought was third and how close you think he is to Bird.
    I think IT is clearly better than Oscar, and played against much tougher compe ion. Showtime Lakers, Prime Jordan, Bird/McHale Celtics. People just hate Pistons for Street balling on diva stars like Jordan and Bird (who are both all time greats)

    Birds career was cut very short by injuries. I think him and Lebron are really close, all era bias aside. I think LeBron is great but his image will be very different 10 years down the line. Third would be Dr J without question. A lot of folks I know would put him above Larry or Lebron tbh. Think it's a much tighter top 3 than PG. Durant is admittedly an all time great scorer but dude can't win without making unfair compe ion within the NBA due to this stupid ing superteam trend. But that can also take a point away from Bron too so idk.

    Duncan/Barkley/Malone can be looked at too, because Duncan was so much more successful, but skill wise it was close. Esp Barkley. He's so underappreciated.

  10. #2460
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Thank you. Specifically it was Michael. He was publicly quoted saying the Pistons were bad for basketball. And everyone outside of Detroit would be happy when they were gone. You put those thoughts out there in the media and then and whine about their bad sportsmanship. Yeah okay... But the media was all too happy to oblige his Airness.

    Funny though, in reality, as great as Jordan was, it was he who likely ruined basketball more than the Bad Boys. Kids all around the country started playing blackhole, midpost iso trying to be Like Mike. It was the slow death of team basketball. Because of Michael.
    Exactly

    People are saying there was a lot of iso ballers back then because of the rules (no zone D) but Magic and Bird - who were talented enough to average 30 ppg - played in the no zone D era and were team 1st players. (James Worthy is another player who strikes me as an unselfish superstar, underrated)
    They just had the right mindset so no excuse for Jordan

    Jordan was a ballhog and inspired future ballhogs

  11. #2461
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    Exactly

    People are saying there was a lot of iso ballers back then because of the rules (no zone D) but Magic and Bird - who were talented enough to average 30 ppg - played in the no zone D era and were team 1st players. (James Worthy is another player who strikes me as an unselfish superstar, underrated)
    They just had the right mindset so no excuse for Jordan

    Jordan was a ballhog and inspired future ballhogs
    you're right but he was excellent at it and won 6 les. What exactly is your point? Or is this another roundabout way of saying a fringe Top 10 player in LeBron is somehow better than a lock for top 3 player because that apparently is your shtick.

  12. #2462
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    you're right but he was excellent at it and won 6 les. What exactly is your point? Or is this another roundabout way of saying a fringe Top 10 player in LeBron is somehow better than a lock for top 3 player because that apparently is your shtick.
    I am trying to get him to acknowledge that he was, indeed, a Ewing, Reggie Miller or Karl Malone fan in the 90's.

    Just come clean lefty it will help start the healing process

  13. #2463
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    I am trying to get him to acknowledge that he was, indeed, a Ewing, Reggie Miller or Karl Malone fan in the 90's.

    Just come clean lefty it will help start the healing process
    Those 3 were good players though. Reggie is very underrated amongst young dudes.

  14. #2464
    Defense Wins Championships Texas_Ranger's Avatar
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    Bucks gonna choke. Jrue holiday is such a bad player.

  15. #2465
    The Golden Goddess TheCultOfPersonality's Avatar
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    Scrub Reddish looking like Steph Curry out there.

  16. #2466
    Hans Brix??? Oh no!!!! Kim Jong-il's Avatar
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    Such low IQ basketball Suns gonna destroy whoever wins this

    Capela out, Lopez in, and the Bucks shoot a bunch of pullup 3’s

  17. #2467
    Believe.
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    Garbage content... I'll watch but it doesn't matter, over time more people will lose interest in this .

  18. #2468
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    TNT interviewer : “coach Bud this team is taking you to the Finals”

    Damn

  19. #2469
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I think IT is clearly better than Oscar, and played against much tougher compe ion. Showtime Lakers, Prime Jordan, Bird/McHale Celtics. People just hate Pistons for Street balling on diva stars like Jordan and Bird (who are both all time greats)

    Birds career was cut very short by injuries. I think him and Lebron are really close, all era bias aside. I think LeBron is great but his image will be very different 10 years down the line. Third would be Dr J without question. A lot of folks I know would put him above Larry or Lebron tbh. Think it's a much tighter top 3 than PG. Durant is admittedly an all time great scorer but dude can't win without making unfair compe ion within the NBA due to this stupid ing superteam trend. But that can also take a point away from Bron too so idk.

    Duncan/Barkley/Malone can be looked at too, because Duncan was so much more successful, but skill wise it was close. Esp Barkley. He's so underappreciated.
    I'll clearly take LeBron over Bird. He matches Bird's peak while nearing Duncan's longevity. Taking that 09 Cavs roster to 66 wins in a conference with the defending champion Celtics and a pretty good Orlando team is about as impressive a season as I have ever seen out of a player. And I'd never call those Cavs teams superteams. Irving has never done much without LeBron with Love was exposed as empty stats. Also you can't tell me Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers weren't super teams. Built differently but same result with overwhelming talent disparities.

  20. #2470
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    you're right but he was excellent at it and won 6 les. What exactly is your point? Or is this another roundabout way of saying a fringe Top 10 player in LeBron is somehow better than a lock for top 3 player because that apparently is your shtick.
    Clearly you can’t read

  21. #2471
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    Trae > Curry + Doncic giving that “no fear” performance to end the series...

  22. #2472
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    I'll clearly take LeBron over Bird. He matches Bird's peak while nearing Duncan's longevity. Taking that 09 Cavs roster to 66 wins in a conference with the defending champion Celtics and a pretty good Orlando team is about as impressive a season as I have ever seen out of a player. And I'd never call those Cavs teams superteams. Irving has never done much without LeBron with Love was exposed as empty stats. Also you can't tell me Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers weren't super teams. Built differently but same result with overwhelming talent disparities.
    Absolutely right on the Lakers/Celtics superteams. Especially Showtime but didn't Celtics draft most of their high end roleplayers? How is that different from pre KD Warriors?

    Regarding Bron, the longevity is insane but when matched against the greats of the 2000s, he lost twice to Duncan and once to Dirk. Would've lost to Kobe in 09 and '10 had he played him. As I said I think he's top 3 SF for sure but recency bias has him as a GOAT contender which I honestly think he lost when losing against Mavs.

    He was drafted in what? 05? Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe all came in dominating and winning chips.

    Clearly you can’t read
    You're right I think I just see your name and assume whats going to be said :/

    Trae > Curry + Doncic giving that “no fear” performance to end the series...
    But he isn't better than either.

  23. #2473
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Absolutely right on the Lakers/Celtics superteams. Especially Showtime but didn't Celtics draft most of their high end roleplayers? How is that different from pre KD Warriors?

    Regarding Bron, the longevity is insane but when matched against the greats of the 2000s, he lost twice to Duncan and once to Dirk. Would've lost to Kobe in 09 and '10 had he played him. As I said I think he's top 3 SF for sure but recency bias has him as a GOAT contender which I honestly think he lost when losing against Mavs.

    He was drafted in what? 05? Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe all came in dominating and winning chips.

    You're right I think I just see your name and assume whats going to be said :/



    But he isn't better than either.
    Of course he would have lost to Kobe in 09 and 10. Kobe had Gasol, Bynum, and Odom and LeBron had Mo Williams and then for a year the corpse of Antawn Jamison's career. Can't really blame him for losing to Duncan in 07, Spurs were a superteam with Duncan + Ginobili + Parker all in their primes while the Cavs starting backcourt was Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic. It would be like blaming Duncan for losing to the 01 Lakers when Terry Porter and Danny Ferry were starters for the Spurs. LeBron's 11 Finals were a disgrace for sure, but Bird got swept by Milwaukee and Magic threw away the 84 Finals, it happens even with the greats in their primes.

  24. #2474
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    But he isn't better than either.
    Time to get some new AA batteries. Your sarcasm detector ain’t working.

    For reference why I posted that and why you missed the sarcasm, see posts #2236 and #2237 on page 90 of this thread.

  25. #2475
    Defense Wins Championships Texas_Ranger's Avatar
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    Trae > Curry + Doncic giving that “no fear” performance to end the series...
    Doncic in elimination playoff games: 42, 8, 11.5 on 54.5% shooting.

    Trae in elimination playoff games: 17.5, 3.5, 9.5 on 22% shooting.

    Oh and one also played vs the 2 best perimiter defenders in the NBA. Whoever thinks Trae is better than Luka is a re .

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