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  1. #326
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Yes, but our star wanted out and everyone knew it...in this scenario the broken star wants out and everyone knows it..
    Leonard is/was a but still a legit star. I suppose you could say it was two broken stars that were swapped, or a broken superstar for a broken star, but we knew we lost that trade the second it happened, so I consider DDR more broken than Leonard. Anyway, this conversation is getting off track and kind of silly.

  2. #327
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    I don't know that you can say that Simmons wants to play on a big market team. I mean, maybe he does, but he didn't grow up in this country so he probably doesn't have the same preference that American players have in their destinations. Kawhi was from L.A., so it wasn't a stretch for him to want to play in L.A. LMA was from Texas and wanted to be in Texas, which is why he signed with the Spurs. LBJ didn't want to go to L.A. until his career was at an end and he could start is Hollywood life.

  3. #328
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    We traded a star for a broken star. Not everything is logical. Lots of factors in trades. But big picture, I’m discussing what I think Morey wants and not what I think is going to happen. This is a complicated situation with Simmons and likely we won’t be involved or even indirectly involved. But we’ll see.
    Technically, although we didn’t know it at the time, we traded a broken star for a broken star, I’m not sure anyone knew that over the next 3 seasons, he wouldn’t play more than 75% of his team’s games.

  4. #329
    Believe.
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    Odds makers give the Spurs the 5th best chance at acquiring Simmons.

    https://www.basketballinsiders.com/b...the-favorites/

  5. #330
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    Odds makers give the Spurs the 5th best chance at acquiring Simmons.

    https://www.basketballinsiders.com/b...the-favorites/

    I don't mind this as it's a ranking of who is most desperate to overpay, ranked from most desperate to least.

  6. #331
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    I don't know that you can say that Simmons wants to play on a big market team. I mean, maybe he does, but he didn't grow up in this country so he probably doesn't have the same preference that American players have in their destinations. Kawhi was from L.A., so it wasn't a stretch for him to want to play in L.A. LMA was from Texas and wanted to be in Texas, which is why he signed with the Spurs. LBJ didn't want to go to L.A. until his career was at an end and he could start is Hollywood life.
    1. LBJ always wanted to be in LA but he couldn't go there earlier in his career because it was occupied by Kobe until '16. There was no way he was going to share the spotlight with Kobe.
    2. Simmons may not be from the States but his father is from NYC. I'm sure through his dad he knows a lot about American culture which also applies to city life. Plus this kid has always wanted to be a Lakers since he was at LSU. I still remember him posting videos of him saying he wanted to be a Laker back when he was at LSU.
    3. Simmons wants to badly be in a big market. He hangs out a lot in LA during the off season. He's also is into the party lifestyle. He's been a longterm relationship with a Kardashian. Anybody who dates those type of women are into the big city lifestyle.
    4. If the Spurs get him he will play ball and use them to rehabilitate his bad image. Simmon's people aka Klutch knows he needs to build back his rep and image so he won't do anything crazy and disruptive in SA because it would destroy his value and possibility to get a second max contract. Once his rehabilitation is complete he will leave through FA.
    5. I don't think it's beneficial for the Spurs to have a 3-4 year rental in Simmons unless there is a possibility of winning a le during that stretch.

  7. #332
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I’ve said this over and over: betting odds aren’t real odds. The casino NEEDS the money to go down evenly, so that the losers pay the winners, and the casino simply takes its cut. If too much money goes one or two directions, the casino adjusts the payoff odds for the remaining teams to increase their winning payoff, which attracts money.

    Betting odds aren’t real odds.

    Betting odds aren’t real odds.

  8. #333
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Simmons had a down year last year ... but here is how his stats last year would rank on the Spurs last year:

    points per game 4th
    rebounds pg 2nd
    assists pg tied 1st
    vorp 2nd
    bpm 3rd
    dws 1st
    ows 2nd
    ws 2nd
    ftms 2nd

    ..............

    again i think many here are undervaluing simmons, but more egregiously are overvaluing our ty spurs
    That’s not really the right way to look at it imo. It’s more about what type of team would they have around him both short term and for longer term what assets would they have to build around him.

    The reality is that depletion of your team to get him makes little sense. Despite him being a “good” player he’s not someone whose impact is so big on his own that you’re basically a playoff team guaranteed. He also needs a very specific build to maximize his talent which Sa doesn’t have.

    That’s why it all comes down to cost. It’s not that people should/should not value SAs guys a certain way imo. It’s more about what path (stand pat or trade for Simmons) offers up the most upside for shaping your next 4-6 years.

    Meaning if this was a trade for another player without these warts you wouldn’t see people so worried about costs and our youth; it’s because of the above that you are seeing that.

  9. #334
    Veteran pookenstein's Avatar
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    4. If the Spurs get him he will play ball and use them to rehabilitate his bad image. Simmon's people aka Klutch knows he needs to build back his rep and image so he won't do anything crazy and disruptive in SA because it would destroy his value and possibility to get a second max contract. Once his rehabilitation is complete he will leave through FA.
    I wouldn't mind a slightly different scenario: Simmons comes in to use the Spurs and rehabilitate his image. Works hard, shoots the ball and does all the other things he does on the court for a season or two in San Antone. Imo Spurs would/could benefit (greatly) from this by going to the Playoffs, giving the young guys some post season experience, giving Pop the wins he needs (and deserves) to get the all time win record. Last, but not least I think that a Simmons, who has shown that he is willing to take shots and is capable of making them, would be easily tradeable for a very good package in or before his last season of the current contract.

  10. #335
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind a slightly different scenario: Simmons comes in to use the Spurs and rehabilitate his image. Works hard, shoots the ball and does all the other things he does on the court for a season or two in San Antone. Imo Spurs would/could benefit (greatly) from this by going to the Playoffs, giving the young guys some post season experience, giving Pop the wins he needs (and deserves) to get the all time win record. Last, but not least I think that a Simmons, who has shown that he is willing to take shots and is capable of making them, would be easily tradeable for a very good package in or before his last season of the current contract.
    Problem with this scenario is you have to trade away a lot of the young guys just get him or not be able to keep them when there initial contact ends

  11. #336
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Problem with this scenario is you have to trade away a lot of the young guys just get him or not be able to keep them when there initial contact ends
    You shouldn't want to keep most of them. Out of the young players on the team, it would be surprising for more than four of them to be on the team if they become a contender any time soon. I'm including guys like Wieskamp in that number too. The whole idea of having young players is that their salaries are artificially capped at the rookie scale. Once you start paying them market value, they lose a ton of their appeal. I'm not looking at "How can we keep Murray, Poeltl, White, Walker, Samanic, Johnson, Vassell, Jones, Primo and Wieskamp together" as anything close to desirable. Moving most of those guys for Simmons in lieu of picks makes way more sense, because you can replace their production with other young players or cheap signings. Investing too much into young players stalls a team's development out way more than keeping old vets.

  12. #337
    Veteran pookenstein's Avatar
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    Problem with this scenario is you have to trade away a lot of the young guys just get him or not be able to keep them when there initial contact ends
    .
    Yeah, but not so many players if we could somehow use Jakob and Young to get additionals picks. I think someone brought a scenario like that up. DJ, a Spurs first and the picks for Jakob and Young. I know, it's not very likely but who cares?

  13. #338
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    You shouldn't want to keep most of them. Out of the young players on the team, it would be surprising for more than four of them to be on the team if they become a contender any time soon. I'm including guys like Wieskamp in that number too. The whole idea of having young players is that their salaries are artificially capped at the rookie scale. Once you start paying them market value, they lose a ton of their appeal. I'm not looking at "How can we keep Murray, Poeltl, White, Walker, Samanic, Johnson, Vassell, Jones, Primo and Wieskamp together" as anything close to desirable. Moving most of those guys for Simmons in lieu of picks makes way more sense, because you can replace their production with other young players or cheap signings. Investing too much into young players stalls a team's development out way more than keeping old vets.
    .
    Yeah, but not so many players if we could somehow use Jakob and Young to get additionals picks. I think someone brought a scenario like that up. DJ, a Spurs first and the picks for Jakob and Young. I know, it's not very likely but who cares?
    I'm not in complete disagreement with either of you.
    I'm also not completely opposed to going after Simmons, however he's owed a lot of money and has a significant flaw in his game. He's also approaching that age of he is what he is.

  14. #339
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    this entire spurs roster is role players, none of these guys even look like they can be a legit #1 anytime soon, and some of these guys are maybe a #2... maybe.

  15. #340
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    You shouldn't want to keep most of them. Out of the young players on the team, it would be surprising for more than four of them to be on the team if they become a contender any time soon. I'm including guys like Wieskamp in that number too. The whole idea of having young players is that their salaries are artificially capped at the rookie scale. Once you start paying them market value, they lose a ton of their appeal. I'm not looking at "How can we keep Murray, Poeltl, White, Walker, Samanic, Johnson, Vassell, Jones, Primo and Wieskamp together" as anything close to desirable. Moving most of those guys for Simmons in lieu of picks makes way more sense, because you can replace their production with other young players or cheap signings. Investing too much into young players stalls a team's development out way more than keeping old vets.
    Not only that, but even less probably have star potential so do you want to pay a bunch of guys as if they were stars because they are homegrown? At some point, the Spurs must swing for the fences. Simmons just represents a good player that the Spurs may be able to get on a discount compared to most all stars. We basically have to trade for a star in a package that has no stars.

  16. #341
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    If Simmons weren't so flawed and his stock wasn't so low, he wouldn't be obtainable at all. He would instantly be the best player on the team no matter what the Spurs give up.

    Now I do agree that there is a such thing as the Spurs giving up too much to get him. But I don't think Simmons is so terrible compared to the current Spurs roster and who they can reasonably obtain in the near future that he isn't worth getting at any price.

  17. #342
    Veteran Poolboy5623's Avatar
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    this entire spurs roster is role players, none of these guys even look like they can be a legit #1 anytime soon, and some of these guys are maybe a #2... maybe.
    I know you said "maybe" twice but who do you consider a #2 on this team. I don't see it..

  18. #343
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I know you said "maybe" twice but who do you consider a #2 on this team. I don't see it..
    healthy white

    possibly dejounte

  19. #344
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    If Simmons weren't so flawed and his stock wasn't so low, he wouldn't be obtainable at all. He would instantly be the best player on the team no matter what the Spurs give up.

    Now I do agree that there is a such thing as the Spurs giving up too much to get him. But I don't think Simmons is so terrible compared to the current Spurs roster and who they can reasonably obtain in the near future that he isn't worth getting at any price.
    I think the biggest risk is he never gets a jump shot and dwindles in NBA superstar mediocrity while getting paid as if he is a top 10 player in the league. He is going to get paid a lot of money over the next few years, so it is a matter of can he live up to his contract. That is a gamble and the price to get him is a lot of the assets. But if they think they can get him at any kind of a discount, it is worth taking the shot.

  20. #345
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    Still think this is about as far as the Spurs would go . . .

    76ers: Murray, Dragic, Spurs top 1-3 protected '22 1st, Suns lottery protected '23 1st, Bulls '25 1st and 2nd

    Suns: Young

    Spurs: Simmons, Milton, Saric

    Raptors: Walker IV, Aminu, Hutchison, Smith

    Johnson/Samanic/Bates-Diop?/Saric
    McDermott/Vassell/Wieskamp
    Poeltl/Eubanks/Landale/Collins
    White/Forbes/Primo
    Simmons/Milton/Jones

  21. #346
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    all that. Raptors can get one of those for Dragic, not all three. They need to be eating Saric, not SA.

  22. #347
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    this entire spurs roster is role players, none of these guys even look like they can be a legit #1 anytime soon, and some of these guys are maybe a #2... maybe.
    Then they are the prime team to play the 48 minutes of game. Question is is Pop the right coach in any situation with this roster?

  23. #348
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    Aminu and Hutchison are bloated, unwanted contracts, so for swallowing that they get two fliers on middling prospects (who also aren't exactly ulatively cheap).

    You could argue they take Saric instead of Aminu, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Spurs saw some value in him for '22-'23 and possibly beyond.

  24. #349
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    Aminu and Hutchison are bloated, unwanted contracts, so for swallowing that they get two fliers on middling prospects (who also aren't exactly ulatively cheap).

    You could argue they take Saric instead of Aminu, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Spurs saw some value in him for '22-'23 and possibly beyond.
    Now that free agency is over, that’s not the right way to look at Aminu and Hutchinson. They are there just for salary matching purposes and don’t have any money due to them after this year.

    Even better, they are assets to the Raptors to either use to flip to improve the roster, or to act as a third team in trades.

  25. #350
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    There has been no further momentum to this rumour. Time to put it to rest.

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