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  1. #2176
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    Nearly $14M a year for a center who puts up numbers similar to Poeltl and has only started 13 games. His Per36 is better but Jakob has better advanced stats on defense.

    I know Jak is never going to be an All-Star or anything, but that deal is looking better and better over time.
    There’s an org whose fan base should be pissed about their off-season.

  2. #2177
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    They better be some damn good assets.
    Yeah it’d take some combo of Weisman, Kuminga, and draft capital.

  3. #2178
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    And update on KBD?

    And yes I remember four years ago thinking that at least the Mills deal wasn't as bad as the Marcus Smart one.

  4. #2179
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Nearly $14M a year for a center who puts up numbers similar to Poeltl and has only started 13 games. His Per36 is better but Jakob has better advanced stats on defense.

    I know Jak is never going to be an All-Star or anything, but that deal is looking better and better over time.
    Gotta disagree on this one! Their raw numbers are only comparable because Poeltl played more minutes. If you look at production per minute or per possessions, Williams outperforms Poeltl by a pretty big margin-- more points, more rebounds, more steals, blocks, & assists, a better FG%, a better BPM & VORP, a higher Ortg & a lower DRtg... and he's younger. I think if you take the salary environment & cap space situation into account, their contracts are pretty similar, but I'd bet Williams will be the more effective & productive player. The biggest issue Williams has is staying out of foul trouble, but that's an issue for Poeltl too, so I don't even see an advantage there.



    https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2021

  5. #2180
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    I’m embarrassed to even bring this up but we’re kinda in that dead zone in the off-season, that Youtuber Spursclan said he’s been told by his source that the spurs are looking to trade for Sekou Doumbouya, I was a fan of him when he was drafted but he hasn’t done anything in the league really.

  6. #2181
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    I’m embarrassed to even bring this up but we’re kinda in that dead zone in the off-season, that Youtuber Spursclan said he’s been told by his source that the spurs are looking to trade for Sekou Doumbouya, I was a fan of him when he was drafted but he hasn’t done anything in the league really.
    Something is likely going to happen that involves sending out more players than come back. It may come down to eating contracts but I find it hard to believe that will be the case. Something like what you are saying here would not surprise me, I am expecting something out of left field.

  7. #2182
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    I’m embarrassed to even bring this up but we’re kinda in that dead zone in the off-season, that Youtuber Spursclan said he’s been told by his source that the spurs are looking to trade for Sekou Doumbouya, I was a fan of him when he was drafted but he hasn’t done anything in the league really.
    That might be exactly why the Spurs want him; they think they can improve his game and want to buy low.

    Edit: glancing at his stats, 41% of his shots come from 3 where he shoots 25.4% for his career. Yikes. I've never watched him so I have no idea what his defense is like. He has positive Defensive Win Shares but negative DBPM. His OBPM is understandably putrid given his shooting woes.

  8. #2183
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    Gotta disagree on this one! Their raw numbers are only comparable because Poeltl played more minutes. If you look at production per minute or per possessions, Williams outperforms Poeltl by a pretty big margin-- more points, more rebounds, more steals, blocks, & assists, a better FG%, a better BPM & VORP, a higher Ortg & a lower DRtg... and he's younger. I think if you take the salary environment & cap space situation into account, their contracts are pretty similar, but I'd bet Williams will be the more effective & productive player. The biggest issue Williams has is staying out of foul trouble, but that's an issue for Poeltl too, so I don't even see an advantage there.



    https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2021
    Gotta disagree here, my guy, and not (only) because I like Poeltl.

    Williams' biggest issue by far is staying healthy. He literally can't stay on the court - whenever he's been given a bigger role by the C's he's gotten injured. It's disingenuous to scale up his production per minutes or possessions, then, because you simply can't rely on that production to maintain its course if he's given the amount of minutes/role that Jakob's played.

    Take a look at their games & minutes played: Williams played 32, 29, and 52 games through his NBA seasons, and only started 16 games between the 3 seasons. Also only played 18MPG last season, and got injured when the C's tried to start him full-time, too, IIRC. On contrast, Jakob's played 54, 82, 77, 66, and 69 games through his NBA seasons, starting 51 of them last season and playing 26MPG in it. It's a big difference. Best ability is availability, after all, and the C's still don't know whether they can rely on him full-time despite sinking upwards of $50M on them. And you know the thing about injury-prone C's is that they don't tend to get less injury-prone as their career progresses, but rather the opposite...

  9. #2184
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    Haven't both Duombouya and Hahimura really underperformed compared to (Patrick) Williams and Hunter? (Just thinks of all the big name combo forwards in the past few drafts)

    Detroit might want Eubanks, since they like our bigs. Maybe also offload Hutchinson? I dunno. Although the Pistons themselves already have too many guys . . .

  10. #2185
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    Gotta disagree here, my guy, and not (only) because I like Poeltl.

    Williams' biggest issue by far is staying healthy. He literally can't stay on the court - whenever he's been given a bigger role by the C's he's gotten injured. It's disingenuous to scale up his production per minutes or possessions, then, because you simply can't rely on that production to maintain its course if he's given the amount of minutes/role that Jakob's played.

    Take a look at their games & minutes played: Williams played 32, 29, and 52 games through his NBA seasons, and only started 16 games between the 3 seasons. Also only played 18MPG last season, and got injured when the C's tried to start him full-time, too, IIRC. On contrast, Jakob's played 54, 82, 77, 66, and 69 games through his NBA seasons, starting 51 of them last season and playing 26MPG in it. It's a big difference. Best ability is availability, after all, and the C's still don't know whether they can rely on him full-time despite sinking upwards of $50M on them. And you know the thing about injury-prone C's is that they don't tend to get less injury-prone as their career progresses, but rather the opposite...

    Good point about the injury history-- it's more extensive than I realized. Generally I'd agree with you on the idea of scaling up stats for comparisons and I definitely wouldn't do it if it was a 14 mpg guy vs a 33 mpg guy, but I thought with 18.9mpg vs 26.7mpg it was justified. I'm guessing Boston did their homework in terms of health and feel confident RWlll can be a relatively healthy player going forward. It's definitely a risk, but I think his production per minute is such that it could be a good pay off if it plays out right. In a way, isn't this gamble a bit similar to the one the Spurs are currently playing with Primo (outside of the health angle), hoping that this 23 yr old Center with limited experience is about to blossom and become a legit force, even though he has so far only shown flashes and oozes potential? I think in the absence of great FAs, this is the best way to improve a team, to catch a guy on the way up... We'll see!

    Btw, I like Poeltl too and consider his contract a deal, though I'd prefer him as a bench center who comes in and dominates other bench centers, while a more offensive minded passer/shooter center starts. One reason I was initially excited about Thaddeus, though now he looks more like a trade piece and doesn't necessarily fit the team time line...
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 08-22-2021 at 09:32 PM.

  11. #2186
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    Cleveland seems to be interested in getting a wing and parting with Larry Nance. Wonder if we would be interested in getting rid of our wings for him.

    Nance seems to a great passer and play great out of the high post. High energy and athletic...

  12. #2187
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    Cleveland seems to be interested in getting a wing and parting with Larry Nance. Wonder if we would be interested in getting rid of our wings for him.

    Nance seems to a great passer and play great out of the high post. High energy and athletic...
    What wings do We have?
    McDermott, Young and Aminu are the only wings on this roster and We can't move either of them.

  13. #2188
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    I’m embarrassed to even bring this up but we’re kinda in that dead zone in the off-season, that Youtuber Spursclan said he’s been told by his source that the spurs are looking to trade for Sekou Doumbouya, I was a fan of him when he was drafted but he hasn’t done anything in the league really.
    You should be embarrassed, sir.

  14. #2189
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    Cleveland seems to be interested in getting a wing and parting with Larry Nance. Wonder if we would be interested in getting rid of our wings for him.

    Nance seems to a great passer and play great out of the high post. High energy and athletic...
    Pass

  15. #2190
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    What wings do We have?
    McDermott, Young and Aminu are the only wings on this roster and We can't move either of them.
    Young is a PF, and so is Aminu at this point.

  16. #2191
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I’m embarrassed to even bring this up but we’re kinda in that dead zone in the off-season, that Youtuber Spursclan said he’s been told by his source that the spurs are looking to trade for Sekou Doumbouya, I was a fan of him when he was drafted but he hasn’t done anything in the league really.
    He’s like a shorter, worse version of Sammich.

  17. #2192
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    Spurs may need to get involved in a 3 team trade to move all these extra players. Boston is trying to get Lillard so maybe:

    BOS: Lillard, Aminu, & Hutchinson
    POR: Horford, Brown, Murray, & whatever the appropriate picks would be
    SAS: McCollum

    This would help this Spurs lack of 3 point shooting. On that note I’ve seen people say that Forbes and McDermott will make up for that but they shot less threes than Mills and Gay so we are still at least 8 threes off a game to be average. McCollum would obviously fix that.

  18. #2193
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    Spurs may need to get involved in a 3 team trade to move all these extra players. Boston is trying to get Lillard so maybe:

    BOS: Lillard, Aminu, & Hutchinson
    POR: Horford, Brown, Murray, & whatever the appropriate picks would be
    SAS: McCollum

    This would help this Spurs lack of 3 point shooting. On that note I’ve seen people say that Forbes and McDermott will make up for that but they shot less threes than Mills and Gay so we are still at least 8 threes off a game to be average. McCollum would obviously fix that.
    3PA per 36 minutes last season: Mills 9.2, Gay 7.4, Forbes 9.1, McDermott 6.4. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 3PA volume.

    The much bigger problem is that McDermott shoots 0.407 from 3 for his career versus Gay's 0.350, but Gay is a far better defender and shot 3s almost as well as McDermott last season (McD 0.388, Gay 0.381). Forbes greatly outshot Mills on a percentage basis last season (0.452 vs 0.375) but again, Mills is the far superior defender and I expect Forbes's percentage to revert to his 0.412 career average; he won't be getting nearly as many wide open shots without players like Giannis and Middleton to suck in multiple defenders.

    The offense shouldn't be a whole lot different with these two replacements, but the defense is going to suffer a lot.

  19. #2194
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    3PA per 36 minutes last season: Mills 9.2, Gay 7.4, Forbes 9.1, McDermott 6.4. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 3PA volume.

    The much bigger problem is that McDermott shoots 0.407 from 3 for his career versus Gay's 0.350, but Gay is a far better defender and shot 3s almost as well as McDermott last season (McD 0.388, Gay 0.381). Forbes greatly outshot Mills on a percentage basis last season (0.452 vs 0.375) but again, Mills is the far superior defender and I expect Forbes's percentage to revert to his 0.412 career average; he won't be getting nearly as many wide open shots without players like Giannis and Middleton to suck in multiple defenders.

    The offense shouldn't be a whole lot different with these two replacements, but the defense is going to suffer a lot.
    Our offense was subpar in terms of 3’s last year too though. Which is what I’m saying. I don’t see this team making the playoffs again until the Spurs are shooting at least league average for 3PA.

    Last year the average was 34.4 and we shot 28.4… it may not seem like much but it’s a difference maker.

    To your point on defense the Spurs WERE successful when they weren’t shooting that many threes because their defense was top 10. However, sadly, those days are gone. They can certainly work on their defense but they needs to focus on 3’s too.

  20. #2195
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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  21. #2196
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    ^ If Lonnie has a decently good season (at least with efficient scoring/shooting) and some improvement, he'll get a lot of interest. It's an environment primed for him betting on himself.

  22. #2197
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    that'd be a good thing honestly, keeps the ball out of Lebron or AD's hands
    Genius!

  23. #2198
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    I’m embarrassed to even bring this up but we’re kinda in that dead zone in the off-season, that Youtuber Spursclan said he’s been told by his source that the spurs are looking to trade for Sekou Doumbouya, I was a fan of him when he was drafted but he hasn’t done anything in the league really.
    I'm also curious about Sekou and whether the Spurs would trade for him, considering it sounds like Detroit wants to give him away. The Spurs definitely seemed interested in him two years ago. Team's don't normally give up on lottery picks after two years, so that's a red flag.

  24. #2199
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    Lauri to Cleveland in a 3 teamer including Portland

  25. #2200
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    Lauri to Cleveland in a 3 teamer including Portland
    Larry Nance goes to Portland in the deal...Jones Jr and draft capital to Chicago

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