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  1. #776
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You'll need to give me your data for that.
    No. This happened in 2011.

    Low temperatures knocked production offline and caused blackouts.

    There were federal reports and recommendations about it.

    It's a 1/10 event.

  2. #777
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    No. This happened in 2011.

    Low temperatures knocked production offline and caused blackouts.

    There were federal reports and recommendations about it.

    It's a 1/10 event.
    There's a huge difference in preparing for the 2011 temperatures than what just happened. The amount of power needed had to be significantly higher this time.

  3. #778
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    There's a huge difference in preparing for the 2011 temperatures than what just happened. The amount of power needed had to be significantly higher this time.
    Capacity went offline because of the cold just like 2011.

    Cold enough to knock production offline is cold enough to knock production offline.

  4. #779
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Capacity went offline because of the cold just like 2011.

    Cold enough to knock production offline is cold enough to knock production offline.
    That seems like a pretty naive take.

  5. #780
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    That seems like a pretty naive take.
    Tell me how it's wrong.

    You can say it's a matter of degree but Texas did not address the causes of the events that actually happened in 1989 and 2011 so there's no way the grid could handle similar events they knew would happen because they did in fact happen.

  6. #781
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Tell me how it's wrong.

    You can say it's a matter of degree but Texas did not address the causes of the events that actually happened in 1989 and 2011 so there's no way the grid could handle similar events they knew would happen because they did in fact happen.
    This wasn't a similar event. This was a historic deep freeze. If you don't think there's a significant difference between negative temperature and 15 degrees, than I don't know what to tell you.

  7. #782
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    This wasn't a similar event. This was a historic deep freeze. If you don't think there's a significant difference between negative temperature and 15 degrees, than I don't know what to tell you.
    Power plants across the country function perfectly well in these conditions. If you don't think they do, then I don't know what to tell you.

  8. #783
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Chump is correct. This has happened before. The PUC is a joke. 2011 blacked out 3.2 million people

  9. #784
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    The other side of the coin is that if production goes offline, places like Beaumont, Amarillo and El Paso can get energy from other states to avoid long blackouts. All ERCOT can do is cut people off for days while they wait for its internal production to hopefully ramp back up.

    Family up in Canyon had nine inches of snow but a total of 45 minutes of power interruption all week.

    This is neither reliable nor is it sustainable. ERCOT needs to end for the sake of the Texas economy if not, you know, its people.

  10. #785
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Chump is correct. This has happened before. The PUC is a joke. 2011 blacked out 3.2 million people
    Sorry...I can't really believe anything you say since your comment about cows not farting.

  11. #786
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Sorry...I can't really believe anything you say since your comment about cows not farting.
    As I have told your ignorant ass multiple times, 95% of bovine methane comes from belches, not farts. Probably the closest your ignorant ass has ever been to a cow was between buns at whataburger.

  12. #787
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that's true. The average person sucks at risk assessment but the ones that do this for a living at the highest level are incredibly intelligent and have the tools to be fairly accurate.
    This last event was probably a 1/100 situation (at least). Lots of plants offline, frozen windmills, frozen natural gas facilities, etc.

    You can't plan for everything.
    Except this isn't a one in 1/100 situation. Happens about once every ten years.

    Last time it happened they did a study about how to prevent outages. It was ignored.

    Profit motive, and resiliency were in conflict, and profit motive won.

    The people involved are aware of the risks, and care about risks, just not these ones. They are worried about the risks to their bottom line.

  13. #788
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    This wasn't a similar event. This was a historic deep freeze. If you don't think there's a significant difference between negative temperature and 15 degrees, than I don't know what to tell you.
    After a 2011 winter storm knocked out power to about 3 million Texans, a federal report warned Texas the same grid debacle would happen again if it didn't adequately weatherize its power infrastructure and increase fuel reserves — and reminded Texas that "many of those same warnings were issued after similar blackouts 22 years earlier and had gone unheeded," The Associated Press reports.
    https://news.yahoo.com/texas-power-g...065217364.html

    REPORT ON: OUTAGES AND CURTAILMENTS DURING THE SOUTHWEST COLD WEATHER EVENT OF FEBRUARY 1-5, 2011
    (PDF)
    https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/f...-11-report.pdf

  14. #789
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    1. Balancing Authorities, Reliability Coordinators, Transmission Operators and Generation Owner/Operators in ERCOT and in the southwest regions of WECC should consider preparation for the winter season as critical as preparation for the summer peak season.

    2. Planning authorities should augment their winter assessments with sensitivity studies incorporating the 2011 event to ensure there are sufficient generation and reserves in the operational time horizon.

    3. Balancing Authorities and Reserve Sharing Groups should review the distribution of reserves to ensure that they are useable and deliverable during contingencies.

    4. ERCOT should reconsider its protocol that requires it to approve outages if requested more than eight days before the outage, consider giving itself the authority to cancel outages previously scheduled, and expand its outage evaluation criteria.

    5. ERCOT should consider modifying its procedures to (i) allow it to significantly raise the 2300 MW responsive reserve requirement in extreme low temperatures, (ii) allow it to direct generating units to utilize pre-operational warming prior to anticipated severe cold weather, and (iii) allow it to verify with each generating unit its preparedness for severe cold weather, including operating limits, potential fuel needs and fuel switching abilities.

    6. Transmission Operators, Balancing Authorities, and Generation Owner/Operators should consider developing mechanisms to verify that units that have fuel switching capabilities can periodically demonstrate those capabilities.

    7. Balancing Authorities, Transmission Operators and Generator Owners/Operators should take the steps necessary to ensure that black start units can be utilized during adverse weather and emergency conditions.

    8. Balancing Authorities, Reliability Coordinators and Transmission Operators should require Generator Owner/Operators to provide accurate ambient temperature design specifications. Balancing Authorities, Reliability Coordinators and Transmission Operators should verify that temperature design limit information is kept current and should use this information to determine whether individual generating units will be available during extreme weather events.

    9. Transmission Operators and Balancing Authorities should obtain from Generator Owner/Operators their forecasts of real output capability in advance of an anticipated severe weather event; the forecasts should take into account both the temperature beyond which the availability of the generating unit cannot be assumed, and the potential for natural gas curtailments.

    10. Balancing Authorities should plan ahead so that emergency enforcement discretion regarding emission limitations can be quickly implemented in the event of severe capacity shortages.

    11. States in the Southwest should examine whether Generator/Operators ought to be required to submit winterization plans, and should consider enacting legislation where necessary and appropriate.

    12. Consideration should be given to designing all new generating plants and designing modifications to existing plants (unless committed solely for summer peaking purposes) to be able to perform at the lowest recorded ambient temperature for the nearest city for which historical weather data is available, factoring in accelerated heat loss due to wind speed.

    13. The temperature design parameters of existing generating units should be assessed.

    14. Generator Owner/Operators should ensure that adequate maintenance and inspection of its freeze protection elements be conducted on a timely and repe ive basis.

    15. Each Generator Owner/Operator should inspect and maintain its generating units’ heat tracing equipment.

    16. Each Generator Owner/Operator should inspect and maintain its units’ thermal insulation.

    17. Each Generator Owner/Operator should plan on the erection of adequate wind breaks and enclosures, where needed.

    18. Each Generator Owner/Operator should develop and annually conduct winter-specific and plant-specific operator awareness and maintenance training.

    19. Each Generator Owner/Operator should take steps to ensure that winterization supplies and equipment are in place before the winter season, that adequate staffing is in place for cold weather events, and that preventative action in anticipation of such events is taken in a timely manner.

    20. Transmission Operators should ensure that transmission facilities are capable of performing during cold weather conditions.

    21. Balancing Authorities should improve communications during extreme cold weather events with Transmission Owner/Operators, Distribution Providers, and other market participants.

    22. ERCOT should review and modify its Protocols as needed to give Transmission Service Providers and Distribution Service Providers in Texas access to information about loads on their systems that could be curtailed by ERCOT as Load Resources or as Emergency Interruptible Load Service.

    23. WECC should review its Reliability Coordinator procedures for providing notice to Transmission Operators and Balancing Authorities when another Transmission Operator or Balancing Authority within WECC is experiencing a system emergency (or likely will experience a system emergency), and consider whether modification of those procedures is needed to expedite the notice process.

    24. All Transmission Operators and Balancing Authorities should examine their emergency communications protocols or procedures to ensure that not too much responsibility is placed on a single system operator or on other key personnel during an emergency, and should consider developing single points of contact (persons who are not otherwise responsible for emergency operations) for communications during an emergency or likely emergency.


    ............... It goes on.


    They had a road map based on the last disaster.

    The Republican administration ignored it.

    Sound familiar?

  15. #790
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    As I have told your ignorant ass multiple times, 95% of bovine methane comes from belches, not farts. Probably the closest your ignorant ass has ever been to a cow was between buns at whataburger.
    LOL. That's kind of funny.

    But you're the one that said, "cows don't fart, they belch".

  16. #791
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    Winter freeze damages SA coal plant; limits capacity

    https://www.bizjournals.com/sananton...oal-plant.html

  17. #792
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Oh noes!

    SpursTalk energy experts recently scolded us for not having more coal in the mix.

  18. #793
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    Oh noes!

    SpursTalk energy experts recently scolded us for not having more coal in the mix.
    One of the big expenses of retiring one of CPS' coal plants is $1.8B it STILL owes on the construction loan/bond LOL

  19. #794
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    One of the big expenses of retiring one of CPS' coal plants is $1.8B it STILL owes on the construction loan/bond LOL
    Only cost 40 million to convert to natural gas.

  20. #795
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Sorry...I can't really believe anything you say since your comment about cows not farting.

  21. #796
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    The whole thing started with AO blaming cow farts for global warming.

  22. #797
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The whole thing started with AO blaming cow farts for global warming.
    I guess that is better than admitting how many people had to die in Texas because of Republican ups with the power grid, and how many billions of dollars in economic damages were done because of failed conservative ideology.

    But hey, let's talk about cow farts and the junior representative from New York.

  23. #798
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I guess that is better than admitting how many people had to die in Texas because of Republican ups with the power grid, and how many billions of dollars in economic damages were done because of failed conservative ideology.

    But hey, let's talk about cow farts and the junior representative from New York.
    I'm not the one that dredged up a 3 year old ankle bite from Spurt4sux

  24. #799
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I admit the power outages sucked. The flip side is I'm making bank fixing .

  25. #800
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I'm not the one that dredged up a 3 year old ankle bite from Spurt4sux
    (Nods) ah.

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