Should the Spurs Make Another Move Before Camp?
by Timothy Varner
Some version of that question keeps rearing its head in our comments section. It’s one those counter-intuitive things. You’d think Spurs fans would be satisfied after an offseason that saw a massive roster overhaul. But when post trade euphoria sets in, the market suddenly expands to all of our favorite players (that we imagine are available on the trade market), and Michael Finley’s expiring contract is treated like the Holy Grail of team assets. This happens every offseason, and after every trade.
I suppose the excitement surrounding the Spurs’ next roster move is different this year–the Spurs have, after all, committed themselves to a proper make over. Couple that commitment with the current market and the possibility of another move isn’t completely unthinkable. But I really think the Spurs will sit tight, and I hope they do. Here’s why:
http://www.48minutesof .com/2009/08/24/should-the-spurs-make-another-move-before-camp/
Last edited by Blackjack; 08-25-2009 at 01:28 AM.
Pretty sound takes. I have thought about Manu as the "expiring contract" concept if he is somewhat injured, but have never put the numbers together with Bonner+Fin. 16M is a damn good package and that could be useful. Especially if the other team is high on Manu Ginobili.
It will be interesting to see how things develop.
No other team is particularly desperate to make a move at this point, so returns won't be as good as they might in February. Until then, find out what works with the current roster.
Keep the expirings until the deadline, if Manu cannot play then he is tradeable.
I would have to agree 100% with the article. This "new" team needs time to work with each other before truely evaluating the changes that have been made. I wouldn't be in a rush until after January.
Unless a very good and proven PG for b/u happens to drop in the Spurs lap would I consider doing anything for now.
I really think all the pieces we have now look good. It's a matter of how healthy the Spurs are next season and how well our youth can gel into the system with their current experience. I have alot of faith that things are going to be quite good this season.
And to make another move out of pure speculation would be quite foolish. Because thats what it would be if anything was done before training camp and preseason.
As I've been saying for a while, a move right now would be stupid, unless it's a no-brainer..the team needs to gel..we have a good return in expiring contracts, so if the team isn't playing as well as expected in February, we can unload a package to fill in a need, possibly a defensive stopper or legit big man..if Manu isn't healthy, unload him in a huge package to get another all-star, as DPG said..
We have question marks with potential in Hairston, Mahinmi, Haislip, and Blair..we have to see how George performs..we have to see if RJ can play the stopper..we have to see if Manu returns to form..plenty of questions before moves can be made..
It's my hope the Spurs wait till then and see what needs to be addressed.
While I would not like to see a major move, I would not object to minor moves with either cost savings or re-balancing the team in mind. Currently we are carrying 7 Bigs - Duncan, Mahinmi, Blair, McDyess, Bonner, Haislip, Ratliff. A balanced roster is 6. Similarly we are short at either PG or Wing, depending on whom you count where; a balanced roster is 3 pgs and 6 wings. By my count, we currently have 2 (Parker, Hill) and 6 (Manu, RJ, Finley, Mason, Williams, Hairston). While I find the current PG situation acceptable, given that 3 of our wings might be able to fill in as 3ed PG (Manu, Mason, Williams), I am not as sure about our defensive chops on the perimeter. There are 2 players with the potential to be lead perimeter defenders on the roster - RJ and Hairston, but there are question marks about both of them... Also, M. Finley is still on the roster, and I worry about Pop's case of Man love screwing up the rotations.
I would welcome a 2 for 1 trade (Finley + X for Y) that would make room for Bowen; he was, IMO, a better player than Finley last year by a significant margin. Indeed, Bowen was our best wing against Dallas. I would be pleased with a move to simply dump Finley. With RJ, Mason, Manu and the young guys, we don't need him eating minutes anymore; and he has been consistently horrible whenever he didn't start...
When you look at all the positions PG-C, you have a few areas that are locks. However you have major question marks.
1 -from your PG position you want - Scorer and Passer/creator
the spurs have that in Parker/Hill
2 - from your SG position you want - Scorer / Shooter
the spurs have Mason Jr. / Manu
3 - from your SF position you want - a little bit of everything / SOLID defender
RJ is gonna get significantly less touches, question is can he shoot effeciently and Play lockdown D / Finley can only shoot.
4 - from your PF you want - scorer downlow+some perimeter action/ Rebounding
the spurs have Duncan / Blair
5 - from your C position you want - Rebounding /shot-blocking + some scoring
Mcdyess is 35 and is not much of a shotblkr / Bonner is scared of physical contact.
The spurs dont need another scorer in RJ, they need a Defensive specialist at the SF position+They dont need a Solid 35yr center/pf they need a younger Solid C/pf who can block shots and play 40mins when Tim is out.
Defense comes first. I would trade for 2 solid role player around the big 3. this might sound crazy but RJ+2bigs to Rockets for Battier/Scola or to a lesser extent to Pacers for Jones/Murphy. That way all positions are covered.
This article echos a lot of what I have said in previous trade threads. I fully expect the FO to go with what we have until there becomes some sort of apparent need for another trade. I never really did the math on what Manu/Finley/Bonner might bring so that is good information and certainly an option if it looks like Manu cannot make it all the way back.
I dont see how they could make a signifigant move even if they wanted to. With Duncan, Ginobili,Parker,McDyess,Jefferson on the team...where would they try and upgrade? They're not gonna try and upgrade over McDyess and Ratliff after chasing them this off season and they wont give up Hill and Mason to do so. Their definately gonna stand pat....I say even after the trade deadline. Because their record will be so good no way they mess with it.
With the amount of tax they're paying this year, unless someone bowls them over with a non-bust former lottery pick player + a contract that runs past 2010 for ballast, I don't see them doing anything at all, even at the deadline. They'll just let the ending contracts roll off, none of which I see having much of a role this year, and go into next year with this year's rotation, minus the tax bill.
If Manu goes down, all that goes out the window. They'll have to be looking for another deal on a longer contract, and Manu will likely roll off, or be included in a trade.
Can we just somehow combine McDyess, Ratliff and Bonner into one player?
Spurs FO knows way more things about the state of their roster than fans.
Ginobili's health is a question mark for fans but Spurs' staff have medical reports about him. Spurs have a good idea if his previous injuries have long term consequences.
Haislip is a question mark for fans but Spurs' staff has seen tons of games with him in Europe and has seen him practicing this summer. He isn't a sure thing but Spurs have surely a good idea on what he could provide or not to the team.
Even if this team has some question marks, Spurs should have a quite good idea about their needs. I think they are fine with their current roster but if the right trade is on the table, they will do it now.
The Spurs are definately a lot better off now with talent than they were last year at this same time.
It gives hope.
In browsing through teams, there are not a lot of options out there if Manu goes down and the Spurs start looking to fill the void to remain in contention for a le. The only one that I can see having any kind of serious potential would be Manu for Rip Hamilton. The Pistons seem committed to the youth movement and the signing of Ben Gordon shows that Rip might not be part of the plan. Furthermore, they can shave another 12.5 million off the books for next year's free agent frenzy....dropping them under 44 million in salaries.
I am hoping Manu is a healthy beast this year and this is all idle speculation, but I always liked Rip. If it had to happen, this is one of the few guys that is clutch, lethal shooter, and works his ass off. At age 31, he still has some pretty good years left.
There is no subs ution for a healthy Manu.
Co-Signed.
We really shouldn't even think about trading Ginobili right now. Like you said, we need to wait until February, when questions are answered and Teams know what they need to do. It might be better to keep Finley and Bonner too. We need to somewhat keep our chemistry. It's not good if we only have around 5 guys from last year in this year's Team. In fact, now that I think about it, that's horrible.
We need to wait until February, when we know what everyone can do and what we need to do. We should keep Bonner and Finley for now.
agree that waiting for February makes more sense, than trying to get something done right now. I still wouldn't rule out some minor roster moves for this summer.
(trading Ian for a TE, singing another veteran FA, signing one of our draftees)
according to ESPN trade machine we can trade RJ to Rockets for Scola/Battier/Barry and then make another trade for cash to unload a vet or ian.
The Spurs are trying to get a big 4, but it just doesnt seem possible unless Pop tweaks the offense. If not, then RJ is basically getting $14 mill to TRY and be a stopper and to fill in incase Manu gets hurt. By making that deal with the Rockets both teams get what they need.
1 - the spurs have the big 3 of PG-Parker/SG-Manu/PF/C-Duncan and then at SF-battier a defensive stopper and C/PF-Scola a rebounder and lowpost scorer with and outside touch. Then the bench of Hill/Mason JR./Blair/Mcdyess. Now if Manu goes down you can go back to throwing the ball in the post more to Duncan/Scola and setting up a 3pt game with Mason Jr./Finley. If Tim goes down you can give his post touches to Scola and more shots to Mason Jr.
2 - the Rockets dont have a legit 20-25pts scorer. Ariza was a desperation move once they realized artest was gonna go. He cant give 20pts a night. With no Mcgrady / Yao the rockets wont be able to score. With brooks at the point you can expect more points say 13pts, Ariza as the defensive stopper and 12pts, Jefferson at 20pts, Lowry/Hayes at the PF position and then David Anderson at Center pointing up some solid numbers. With Mcgrady's contract at $22 mill the Rockets can now trade him to a sorry team in exchange for younger talent (i.e. Marc Gasol and a few other throw ins ). Bottom line is the Rockets are going to suck regardless, but al least they'll know where their points are gonna come from ( RJ ).
PG - Parker / Hill / Barry
SG - Mason Jr. / Manu / Hairston
SF - Battier / Finley / Haislip
PF - Duncan /Blair / Bonner
C - Scola / Mcdyess / Ratliff
leftovers are Ian/M. Willams or Hairston/Bonner for a trade to unload salaries. This trade also seals up the ? at PG. Barry can run the point if the spurs start to run thin. He was the PG for the sonics for 1 1/2 seasons. FYI - the numbers that scola and battier put up will stay the same or maybe increase since the big 3 of Duncan/Parker/Manu are much better passers then Yao/Tmac/Artest.
Last edited by portnoy1; 08-25-2009 at 03:41 PM.
wrong. even Manu doesn't know for sure. He himself said it and he still has not really "tested" his ankles
Can we at least make an attempt at being realistic?
whats unrealistic about that? the trade or the roster or what?
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