The Case For and Against Re-signing Lonnie Walker IV

[DPG21920]

I would love to see Doug’s salary used to get someone like John Collins if that’s available. Or sent to Bulls for Lavine in a sign and trade etc

[MannyIsGod]

Disagree - especially on Richardson. And if you don’t believe anyone would absorb Doug that’s further proof it was a really bad signing.

But I’m assuming he still has plus value so even if Sa had to give a second to dump him it’s not a big deal.

Lonnie can be kept regardless; SA has his rights. I was more talking minutes justifications, not money regarding Lonnie

I'm skeptical we can dump Doug for a pick without taking money back, and I do tend to think that keeping Doug lowers the chance of keeping Lonnie since you can only have so many players that aren't even poor defenders (as in they are worse than poor). I 100% think we can get something of value back for Richardson since his contract is pretty damn friendly and he played great. Listening to his last press conference, he seemed to want to stay, but it also seemed like he knew he wasn't going to stay. Not sure if thats just the awareness of being a vet who's moved around the league a bit or if the Spurs had told him their plans.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with you fully on this subject.

EDIT: Either way, the collection of contracts and assets the Spurs currently have along with cap space really makes them super flexible and able to jump on nearly any opportunity this summer. Its a nice spot to be in.

[DPG21920]

I'm skeptical we can dump Doug for a pick without taking money back, and I do tend to think that keeping Doug lowers the chance of keeping Lonnie since you can only have so many players that aren't even poor defenders (as in they are worse than poor). I 100% think we can get something of value back for Richardson since his contract is pretty damn friendly and he played great. Listening to his last press conference, he seemed to want to stay, but it also seemed like he knew he wasn't going to stay. Not sure if thats just the awareness of being a vet who's moved around the league a bit or if the Spurs had told him their plans.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with you fully on this subject.

EDIT: Either way, the collection of contracts and assets the Spurs currently have along with cap space really makes them super flexible and able to jump on nearly any opportunity this summer. Its a nice spot to be in.

Yup. And I’m just of the mindset that Sa should be looking for every opportunity to obtain assets - especially for those not in long term plans. So while that means sometimes losing a good player like Richardson short term, it’s worth it because a FRP (if they can get that) is too valuable to pass up especially when Sa has other picks + cap space to replace him

You don’t dump him for no reason but should be aggressive in shopping him if value is solid imo.

I think dumping Doug and getting no money back would cost a pick if Sa needed to do that for cap space to sign someone but most likely I think he could be used in a deal for another player. Worst case would take a 2nd so no biggie especially if you get a first for Richardson

[KingKev]

I din’t see how McLovin’ and Walker’s situation are related other than that they can’t really share the floor much. We could sign all 4 rookies and give Walker 8mm and still have 20m to spend. No need to dump Doug but I suspect if you wanted out of his contract it will cost you an SRP atleast to straight up salary dump and there are few teams who even have the cap space to absorb him.

I hope neither play another game as a Spur, hopefully Doug’s contract can be used as part of a bigger trade.

This thread is getting of topic but in the unlikely event we need to clear cap space we have tons of levers to pull in JRich, McLovin, Collins, Landale and KBD.

[mo7888]

I think Richardson has more value so he is who I would use either way. Overall I just think that while Richardson was great, his value may never be higher and if you can get a FRP for him or use him + a pick to net a better player then I would take that value vs extending him etc

Doug, I think still has some value to teams but his money just needs to be reset either by trading him to a team with cap space or used in a deal as you mentioned.

But I can see something where Sa trades Richardson for a FRP and then uses Doug in a deal where they give up a 2nd (so net out an extra first for a second and uses the money a bit wiser)

I'm fine with moving Josh for a 1st or preferably a better player. As for Doug, I don't see him as anything more than salary ballast, where we could package him, plus a pick or two (depending on who ends up on the market) , plus a young player so the salaries + our cap space brings in a near max type of guy.

[mo7888]

I would love to see Doug’s salary used to get someone like John Collins if that’s available. Or sent to Bulls for Lavine in a sign and trade etc

That's the kind of deal I'm looking for with Doug....

[Trueblood]

If I am Lonnie I would go somewhere else for a fresh start. I would get away from Pop as fast as I could. Maybe go to the Lakers who need the athleticism.

Lakers could use some young legs, but their biggest need is shooting

[Uriel]

I still remember when the Spurs tried to trade up to get Lonnie in the draft, only for him to fall unexpectedly into their laps.

[John B]

Good read. I agree. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lonnie is gone, the way other teams value Spurs players, especially with the highflying dunks that other team commentators are left in awe. To me he’s a perfect 6th man, and shouldn’t be expected more. As mentioned, he’sca good character on and off the court, humble and a teamplayer. If not for his atrocious defense, he’d be a keeper. Again players like Lou Williams and Jamal Crawford carved up a career, and multiple 6th-man awards, as scorers with little defense.

I agree the draft will tell a lot. I expect them to draft the BPA. But it wouldn’t be a surprised if it’s a SG/SF for the Boston pick. I would hate to see Lonnie go. He’s one of the players I root for. I think he’s made the turn and will just continue to improve. I wish him all the best.

[wildbill2u]

Lonnie, with his first step, is like that NFL WR who runs a 4.3 40yd, but balls bounce off his hands. Athleticism isn’t the be all/ end all. It’s nice if it’s part of a complete package, but in this case it isn’t. His offense is his best attribute, and even that is awfully inefficient. His defense is Forbes level bad.

Probably too late in his career here with the Spurs, but if the coaches had been able to turn that athleticism into something decent on DEFENSE, he would have been a better player for us. Maybe he resisted working on it, or no one saw it as an opportunity for him, but he's got hops and looks very strong, both attributes that could be used to increase his value to any team that needs rebounding and tough defense against SFs and Guards. Unfortunately, there are very few players who see themselves as defensive specialists first, and take what offensive opportunities come their way.

I don't see any rush to make a decision on him. He can test the market, and we can test his potential trade value.

[exstatic]

Probably too late in his career here with the Spurs, but if the coaches had been able to turn that athleticism into something decent on DEFENSE, he would have been a better player for us. Maybe he resisted working on it, or no one saw it as an opportunity for him, but he's got hops and looks very strong, both attributes that could be used to increase his value to any team that needs rebounding and tough defense against SFs and Guards. Unfortunately, there are very few players who see themselves as defensive specialists first, and take what offensive opportunities come their way.

I don't see any rush to make a decision on him. He can test the market, and we can test his potential trade value.

It depends what the Spurs plans are with the cap room. If they’re just looking at renting some, and a MLE signing or two, then I agree with you. If they’re going to roll the dice on someone like Lavine, that has to happen fast, like hours, and Lonnie’s $13M cap hold will have to be resolved by a dirt cheap contract, or renouncing his rights in the first day or two of FA.

[TD 21]

At the time they were drafted, I had higher hopes for him than any of the next generation (beginning with Murray), but I've been done with him for a while and I hope they are too.

He's had four years and as R. DeMurre alluded to in the other thread about him, the notion that he's dramatically improved post White trade is mostly false. He's still a net negative despite some progression to the mean shooting wise.

It's also time to move away from his personality type. Primo noted in conversation with Richardson in a recent clip on Spurs social media about how he's essentially injected the team with more confidence/swagger.

[timvp]

I have a question for you, how do you interpret his minutes limitation in the play in game. I assume it’s the back but him liking those twitter comments about him getting more playing time due to his scoring ability introduced doubts.

Could have been his back injury. More likely it's just that Josh Richardson is better than him, if we're being honest.

In that particular game, getting more offense on the court could have been useful. But Pop was miffed about the "lack of grunt" and Walker is the most grunt-less player on the roster ....... so, yeah, he wasn't what Pop was looking for.

[timvp]

I say let him walk. I don't even know what kind of contract another team would give him.

Yeah, this is tough to say. I'll write about it at some point but I think MLE has to be his max, right? I can't imagine a team out there wanting to spend their cap space on LW4 -- but I guess it's possible.

[timvp]

Hopefully gone. ~6.5mm QO triggers a cap hold of ~13mm complicating our free agency. Someone will make an offer more than we are willing to pay probably in the area of 8-10 million and I’d hope we let him walk at that point.

For the ppl who think we should sign and trade him that is a very remote possibility as once he signs an offer sheet with a team you can’t than match and sign and trade him to that team as he is an RFA. Also I doubt he has any trade value to begin with.

Yeah depending on what the Spurs plan to do in free agency, it's possible that their first step is renouncing Walker's qualifying offer. That'd also be doing Walker a favor because unrestricted free agents are in much higher demand than restricted free agents. As we all know, the Spurs aren't above giving players like Walker that kind of parting gift.

Probably too late in his career here with the Spurs, but if the coaches had been able to turn that athleticism into something decent on DEFENSE, he would have been a better player for us. Maybe he resisted working on it, or no one saw it as an opportunity for him, but he's got hops and looks very strong, both attributes that could be used to increase his value to any team that needs rebounding and tough defense against SFs and Guards.

The coaches really, really tried. That's been the focus since his rookie season.

Walker's poor defense isn't a lack of coaching or even a lack of effort. He just doesn't process the game fast enough and lacks a basic feel of how to play the game. Some players can see two or three movements ahead and are seemingly always in the right spot (think Horry, Ginobili, Diaw, etc.). Walker is the opposite. He's usually two or three movements behind where he should be on defense, unfortunately. Some things you can't teach or learn -- and that type of advanced spatial awareness is one of them, IMO.

[Mr. Body]

I just don't know what other options there are. No one else on the team is a slasher, where he's actually good, if he doesn't do anything else well. Last year there were scorers available deeper in the draft, where there don't seem to be many in this one. (Instead there are lots of forwards and combo guards who can't shoot.)

[Mr. Body]

Actually, there may be a guy like Blake Wesley available with a later pick. In that case, I could see letting Walker go. No sense in throwing good money after bad, and best just start anew.

[SAGirl]

Could have been his back injury. More likely it's just that Josh Richardson is better than him, if we're being honest.

In that particular game, getting more offense on the court could have been useful. But Pop was miffed about the "lack of grunt" and Walker is the most grunt-less player on the roster ....... so, yeah, he wasn't what Pop was looking for.

Thanks for answering. A guy like this then, is not someone they want back unless it’s in a short deal to include as salary ballast in a trade or something. There are scenarios where he’s back because the situation is very fluid but I also know Pop has been gradually shedding players he’s relied on in the past that don’t help in the win column. I bet he’d rather pay Forbes and bring him back if he needs bench scoring because he’s more efficient offensively and still a sieve and no I am not advocating for Forbes but you see how there’s only a small offer in the table for Lonnie.

[tbdog]

I'm surprised of Lonnie defensive stats there. My eye sees his one on one D was above average.

[Larry O]

I think that Primo could be the X-factor here, as to what LW4'S fate with the Spurs will be, along with the draft picks and who will the Spurs be signing as a BIG free agent. Next season, I can see Primo moving to the 2nd unit for the time being, and if he takes a big leap in his improvement, he'll be the focal point in scoring. Primo definitely has better upside than Walker at this point. I'm sure that PATFO is already aware of this by now, and may already have it already planned out (?).

[Slippy]

As others have said there really is no spurs player capable of doing what Lonnie can provide athletically on the drive. Thats a big reason to sign him.

Timvps points are mostly valid. Dont agree with the assertion Lonnies not good at getting to the line. This season when attacking the rim, hes displayed a good knack at drawing fouls, just not good at shooting them at a high clip.

Theres been improvment on d when it comes to on ball defense, on getting steals and helping on rebounds. Numbers might not say it but thankfully they have eyes. Theyll keep in mind theres still some growth to come. People forget Lonnie spent only 1 year in college .

They'll remember the standout games and what he done when playing meaningful mins alongside competent bigs. Also the fact, he playing out of posi micro ball forcing him to guard bigger players happens alot.

If they went by numbers only, they be dumb enough to think his defense is Bryn Forbes level.

Just dont overpay and would hate to lose J Rich because it had to be 1 or the other. Josh is spurs material.

[Dejounte]

Like with everything about Lonnie, his performance on defense is only good in spurts

on one play, he looks like he’s staying in front of his man and hounding him like Pat Bev

…and on the next he commits the most egregious and 1 foul that could have easily been avoided if he was smarter

i didn’t need stats to tell me this, but I’m glad it at least supports it. (though stats are never always something to rely on for truly good performance or truly bad performance like how some misuse it)

on those games against the Pelicans early on in the regular season, someone was saying Lonnie was the best defender against Ingram. I want whatever that dude was smoking. Lonnie looks the part most times because he’s athletic, but opposing players consistently score over him.

[Dejounte]

Actually, there may be a guy like Blake Wesley available with a later pick. In that case, I could see letting Walker go. No sense in throwing good money after bad, and best just start anew.

Exactly. Some may be attached to Lonnie because of his Jordanesque hops and hang time, but people will be surprised how many options we have in the draft as far as a new guard to wow us with his athleticism… Wesley and Procida. Hoping for one of those two.

[Dejounte]

Actually, there may be a guy like Blake Wesley available with a later pick. In that case, I could see letting Walker go. No sense in throwing good money after bad, and best just start anew.

Exactly. Some may be attached to Lonnie because of his Jordanesque hops and hang time, but people will be surprised how many options we have in the draft as far as a new guard to wow us with his athleticism… Wesley and Procida. Hoping for one of those two.

[exstatic]

I'm surprised of Lonnie defensive stats there. My eye sees his one on one D was above average.

His team defense is an atrocious mix of getting picked off and blown rotations. They put him on the ball, because it’s where he can do the least damage. It’s probably the same issue as his offense, where he just doesn’t mentally process quickly enough.