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  1. #251
    Believe. Vince Carter's ankle's Avatar
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    team trying to win less than 20 games a year for the next 3 years
    Why so few? Maybe ten is better?

  2. #252
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
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    The point is over the bolded portion, which is debatable.

    I actually like Keldon, but I think he's a modern Alvin Robertson for our team. Appears to be a good part of our young core, but in honesty can be moved for the right complementary piece once our true superstar arrives. I see the way we traded Alvin for Terry mings as a good example of what we could potentially do.

    With that said, we certainly don't HAVE to trade him. I like the idea of packaging Keldon and Devin for an upgraded wing scorer like Mathurin or Ivey.
    What ? Mathurin is certainly promising, but there is no way you get him for both Johnson and Vassell.

  3. #253
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
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    I hope the Spurs can trade for Lauri Markkanen. An all star player on a really good contract that really fits the modern NBA. I don’t think they would even have to trade much to get him tbh… oh wait. Wrong year I guess. You’d think there would be a thread made about him in the past. But I guess some people only focus their attention seeking ways on bumping the rare threads they actually got right…

    Still would’ve been nice to have gotten him on the cheap.
    And you’d play Markkanen at what position ? Because at 4 we’re good with Sochan.

  4. #254
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
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    Bad comparison. Alvin would have been almost untouchable if he wasn't having off the court drama. Great trade in retrospect but man people forget how nasty a player Alvin was and god what I would have given to see a defense anchored by him and David if he could have kept his life together at that time. And Sean Elliott too, damn would that have been a tough team to score on in the 90s. You're not getting a guy like Terry mings for Keldon.
    Yes, you get today’s mings, aged 61. ^^

  5. #255
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    And you’d play Markkanen at what position ? Because at 4 we’re good with Sochan.
    I didn’t want Mark at the time and he would be too costly these days but I would pigeon hole Sochan as strictly a 4 and could easily see him being inter changeable at the 3 and 4 as his game matures.

  6. #256
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    Jeremy can guard several positions so I think that gives him lots of opportunities to be in different lineups, especially if his shot stays decent.

  7. #257
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    What ? Mathurin is certainly promising, but there is no way you get him for both Johnson and Vassell.
    That's not really a great trade for either team. Not that either team wouldn't benefit but there are shortcomings both ways for both teams.

  8. #258
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    I doubt Utah would even want to trade Markkanen and there's no point in going for him now after pretty much everyone was happy we didn't take him in DDR trade.

    We really need those big trades to start happening soon, so we can get rid of JRich and Doug.

  9. #259
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    I doubt Utah would even want to trade Markkanen and there's no point in going for him now after pretty much everyone was happy we didn't take him in DDR trade.

    We really need those big trades to start happening soon, so we can get rid of JRich and Doug.
    Lauri, Ochai, and Kessler are untouchable according to reports this morning..

  10. #260
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I doubt Utah would even want to trade Markkanen and there's no point in going for him now after pretty much everyone was happy we didn't take him in DDR trade.

    We really need those big trades to start happening soon, so we can get rid of JRich and Doug.
    Utah has already marked Kessler and Mark as untouchable.

  11. #261
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    What do you think is more valuable in a trade: our 1st from Charlotte or or 2nd this year?

    In a scenario like the Toronto deal last year where we got a 1st and gave back an asset (a 2nd) would a team prefer the Charlotte pick knowing it won't convey this year or the guarantee of a 2nd at the top of that round?

  12. #262
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    What do you think is more valuable in a trade: our 1st from Charlotte or or 2nd this year?

    In a scenario like the Toronto deal last year where we got a 1st and gave back an asset (a 2nd) would a team prefer the Charlotte pick knowing it won't convey this year or the guarantee of a 2nd at the top of that round?
    That CHA pick is garbage unless they land wemby. Im internalizing that its basically two SRPs in the 40s at this point. Im happy to use it to sweeten deals or swap it to upgrade picks.

    I honestly believe CHA has taken the mantle from SAC as worst run franchise.
    Last edited by CGD; 02-03-2023 at 01:14 PM.

  13. #263
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    What do you think is more valuable in a trade: our 1st from Charlotte or or 2nd this year?

    In a scenario like the Toronto deal last year where we got a 1st and gave back an asset (a 2nd) would a team prefer the Charlotte pick knowing it won't convey this year or the guarantee of a 2nd at the top of that round?
    That CHA pick is garbage unless they land wemby. Im internalizing that its basically two SRPs in the 40s at this point. Im happy to use it to sweeten deals or swap it to upgrade picks.

    I honestly believe CHA has taken the mantle from SAC as worst run franchise.
    Tough call. That Charlotte pick is:
    1) Imṕossible to convey in '23 (top 16 protected)
    2) Extremely unlikely to convey in '24 (top 14 protected, they must jump from trash to playoff team in one year)
    3) IMO Unlikely to convey in '25, unless all planets align (they land Wemby, they resign Bridges and/or another top FA, Mark Williams takes a huge jump forward in his third year, etc)
    4) Otherwise turns into 2 seconds in '26 & '27
    I think the Charlotte pick has a small chance of conveying as a first (below 20% at best), but if it doesn't it may turn into 2 seconds but in 4 and 5 years time. If they were bad enough for it not to convey as a first rounder by '25 then those 2nds should still be good (low to mid), but it's all speculation and no one knows for sure.
    On the other hand, our second is certain and very good (31-33 range IMO, almost a late first rounder), and in the short term.
    So all in all I think the value is close, when you consider the uncertainties and delay involved in the Charlotte pick, compared to our own 2nd.
    I would wait until this year's lottery to see where Charlotte stands. If they land a high pick and take a good player, we could wait it out. If they pick 5 or below and take one of the Thompson twins, Nick Smith, or some long term project like that, then I'd try to use it this very draft for a pick in the 20s or a trade for a young player, by itself or along other assets... but we shouldn't wait beyond next season to make a decision, it may be too late by then.

  14. #264
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    Hate to say it because Cadillac was a really nice guy I got to talk to a lot when he was on the team, but he was more like a throw in, Alvin was the meat of that deal. Keldon isn't going to land you much as a centerpiece in trade, he's an average starting SF with maybe above average starting SF potential in a couple of years. He's more like the kind of guy you trade for to get something of value if your star forces his way out, not the kind of guy GM's are going to be ringing you up for dangling stars or real building blocks.
    We aren't in disagreement here... and the "like Mathurin or Ivey" is a hypothetical around the type of player we should want along side our alpha. If you land Wemby, I think the Spurs should immediately transition from multi-year tank mode to immediately building around your newly drafted Superstar, much like we did in 1989. Devin and Keldon are really the only assets we'll have (assuming Sochan is untouchable) along side the bevvy of draft picks we'll have ac ulated (and perhaps even more if we do some deals around the deadline).

    I'd hope we'd be able to do SOMETHING with those trade pieces, but maybe we don't need to move Devin or Keldon at all and could just use the draft picks for the kind of deal that ATL did for DJM or CLE did for Mitc . But I don't want to see us land Wemby and then have two more years of top-5 picks... that's just going to result in Wemby being developed in a losing atmosphere that could lead him to want out. The 1989 model is the way to go. If Wemby is our DRob, Sochan can be our Sean and another one of our young guys can be our Willie. Bring in vets to surround that young core, don't just amass a team of young, talented but clueless prospects.

  15. #265
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Tough call. That Charlotte pick is:
    1) Imṕossible to convey in '23 (top 16 protected)
    2) Extremely unlikely to convey in '24 (top 14 protected, they must jump from trash to playoff team in one year)
    3) IMO Unlikely to convey in '25, unless all planets align (they land Wemby, they resign Bridges and/or another top FA, Mark Williams takes a huge jump forward in his third year, etc)
    4) Otherwise turns into 2 seconds in '26 & '27
    I think the Charlotte pick has a small chance of conveying as a first (below 20% at best), but if it doesn't it may turn into 2 seconds but in 4 and 5 years time. If they were bad enough for it not to convey as a first rounder by '25 then those 2nds should still be good (low to mid), but it's all speculation and no one knows for sure.
    On the other hand, our second is certain and very good (31-33 range IMO, almost a late first rounder), and in the short term.
    So all in all I think the value is close, when you consider the uncertainties and delay involved in the Charlotte pick, compared to our own 2nd.
    I would wait until this year's lottery to see where Charlotte stands. If they land a high pick and take a good player, we could wait it out. If they pick 5 or below and take one of the Thompson twins, Nick Smith, or some long term project like that, then I'd try to use it this very draft for a pick in the 20s or a trade for a young player, by itself or along other assets... but we shouldn't wait beyond next season to make a decision, it may be too late by then.
    What do you think a package like this looks like? Of course the CHA pick alone won't do it. Would CHI pick + CHA pick be enough, or would we have to throw in one of ours with some (lighter than 1-16) protections?

  16. #266
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    What do you think a package like this looks like? Of course the CHA pick alone won't do it. Would CHI pick + CHA pick be enough, or would we have to throw in one of ours with some (lighter than 1-16) protections?
    I’m using it a different way. For example if there is a Jak trade with BOS for filler + clean 28FRP, I’d add the CHA pick to try to secure another FRP from Boston but that offers more favorable protections for us than CHA pick. Or in a Richardson + CHA pick to get Wiseman. Etc

  17. #267
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I’m using it a different way. For example if there is a Jak trade with BOS for filler + clean 28FRP, I’d add the CHA pick to try to secure another FRP from Boston but that offers more favorable protections for us than CHA pick. Or in a Richardson + CHA pick to get Wiseman. Etc
    I don't like the Wiseman idea specifically, but I agree we should be looking to attach that CHA pick to something this deadline to grease some wheels. We have enough draft capital without some weak ass CHA "maybe" pick

  18. #268
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    What do you think a package like this looks like? Of course the CHA pick alone won't do it. Would CHI pick + CHA pick be enough, or would we have to throw in one of ours with some (lighter than 1-16) protections?
    I could see something where SA trades McD, Zach or Josh like they did with Thad and using the CHA pick for a more guaranteed first this year.

  19. #269
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    Breaking: Brooklyn Nets All-Star Kyrie Irving has requested a trade, league sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The franchise has been informed that Irving prefers to move on ahead of the Feb. 9 trade deadline – or will leave in free agency in July.

    Shams

  20. #270
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    wild. Hope it's not the Lakers


  21. #271
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Breaking: Brooklyn Nets All-Star Kyrie Irving has requested a trade, league sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The franchise has been informed that Irving prefers to move on ahead of the Feb. 9 trade deadline – or will leave in free agency in July.

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    I just need Harden to request a trade for my bingo to hit.

  22. #272
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    We aren't in disagreement here... and the "like Mathurin or Ivey" is a hypothetical around the type of player we should want along side our alpha. If you land Wemby, I think the Spurs should immediately transition from multi-year tank mode to immediately building around your newly drafted Superstar, much like we did in 1989. Devin and Keldon are really the only assets we'll have (assuming Sochan is untouchable) along side the bevvy of draft picks we'll have ac ulated (and perhaps even more if we do some deals around the deadline).

    I'd hope we'd be able to do SOMETHING with those trade pieces, but maybe we don't need to move Devin or Keldon at all and could just use the draft picks for the kind of deal that ATL did for DJM or CLE did for Mitc . But I don't want to see us land Wemby and then have two more years of top-5 picks... that's just going to result in Wemby being developed in a losing atmosphere that could lead him to want out. The 1989 model is the way to go. If Wemby is our DRob, Sochan can be our Sean and another one of our young guys can be our Willie. Bring in vets to surround that young core, don't just amass a team of young, talented but clueless prospects.
    I think 1989 expectations would be wildly unrealistic. 20 year-old Wembanyama isn't going to be 24 year-old David Robinson ready to take this team from the lottery to winning the division. Like it or not Spurs are looking at another year or two of being in the high lottery most likely after getting Wemby. Sure if a situation like dumping draft picks to get a young Donovan Mitc presents itself then jump on it, but I'd have no interest in getting vets much older than that considering Wembanyama is still going to take some time to develop into an MVP candidate.

  23. #273
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    I’m using it a different way. For example if there is a Jak trade with BOS for filler + clean 28FRP, I’d add the CHA pick to try to secure another FRP from Boston but that offers more favorable protections for us than CHA pick. Or in a Richardson + CHA pick to get Wiseman. Etc
    I agree with your thoughts on Boston... I'd leave Wiseman alone though..

  24. #274
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    This is actually really good news for the Spurs... the kind of news they needed with the market kind of fizzling out. Spurs are the only team left who can facilitate such a trade.

    Cap Space storage units have immediate availability, come on down to rent yours today.

  25. #275
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    What do you think a package like this looks like? Of course the CHA pick alone won't do it. Would CHI pick + CHA pick be enough, or would we have to throw in one of ours with some (lighter than 1-16) protections?
    The Chicago is protected 10-8-8, I think it's a relatively good pick with a 3 year window and decreasing, reasonable protections... It has good value by itself, if we use on a mediocre pick (say 25-30) to sweeten Charlotte's pick, we're losing on one hand what we're gaining on the other. I'd leave that one alone.
    As for the Charlotte pick, it's all very contingent on the cir stances. Sometimes a team has a certain target late in the draft, and if that player is already taken the pick becomes a burden, as they'd rather avoid the guaranteed rookie scale contract for someone they're not invested in. In that case the Charlotte pick may be enough by itself, as the chance of an uncertain mid first in the future is preferable to a wasted first in the present... in these cases sometimes a team will trade a late first for a couple future 2nds if no better deal is on the table.
    Attaching another pick could be an interesting scenario, depending on how good the pick is and how interesting the player within reach is, you could add the '24 Lakers' second we got in exchange for Kennedy Chandler's rights (say for a pick in the very low high 20s), or even our own '23 2nd (essentially we'd be using Charlotte's pick to pay for the upgrade between 31-33 an a first in the low 20s), etc.
    Mainly I'd try to make sure we land a first out of that Charlotte pick by using one or more 2nds, which are usually garbage. But it's all very much contingent on a lot of factors, my point is PATFO shouldn't wait too long or it will lose even more value than it already has (FU, Miles Bridges!).
    Last edited by Ariel; 02-03-2023 at 02:16 PM.

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