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  1. #51
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    You don't take compliments very well, I see.
    nope

    There are no real rivalries, Neo. That makes things interesting.

    Why do you think that is? Could it have anything to do with the lack of physicality/chippiness? Star player used to want to rip your head off; now they all want to play together and go for boatrides.
    because a few guys a years ago did a banana boat together does not mean the league as a whole are buddies

    i suppose then mike is guilty of the same stuff for going golfing regularly with other players, regularly gambling with other players, and making a movie with barkley ewing and LJ

    You can mention Cavs/GSW and call it a rivalry - but it never gave me that feel because I had no doubt that if Lebron had the chance he would go suit up for the Warriors or anybody else who had a stacked, ready made le team, tbh.
    lol ok

  2. #52
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    touchy touchy



    already did. he didnt say mark price sucks. thanks for playing
    That's why I already said unless you consider saying an NBA player is a plumber isn't saying he sucks, which apparently you don't. Try to catch up some time.



    never said you did
    So what was your point?

  3. #53
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    That's why I already said unless you consider saying an NBA player is a plumber isn't saying he sucks, which apparently you don't. Try to catch up some time.
    you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

    try to catch up some time

    So what was your point?
    lets see

    trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

    you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

    enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you

  4. #54
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    Every era has their Cedric Ceballos, empty stat players. Trae falls into that category. Could have better percentages in a more structured offense, but as of right now he's a chucker on a bad team.

    you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

    try to catch up some time



    lets see

    trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

    you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

    enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you

  5. #55
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Every era has their Cedric Ceballos, empty stat players. Trae falls into that category. Could have better percentages in a more structured offense, but as of right now he's a chucker on a bad team.
    i dont disagree

    but it doesnt mean trae isnt a clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than mark price

  6. #56
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

    try to catch up some time
    calling someone is a plumber isn't to say they suck
    lefty's schtick is talking about how Jordan's opposition sucked. How Ehlo was a plumber looking guy, and how Starks was a grocery bagger, and that their defense on Jordan was wildly exaggerated.



    lets see

    trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

    you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

    enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you
    I don't see Trae being superior at all, because he has the greenlight to shoot on a team with no hope of winning.

    Stackhouse had a 30/5/4 season, Michael Adams had a 26/10/2 season, and I won't consider them better seasons than Mark Price's peak.

    Trae Young's advanced stats are underwhelming, especially when compared to what his traditional stats look.

    And about splitting hairs when you are trying to argue saying an NBA is a plumber, although jokingly, isn't saying he sucked.

    i dont disagree

    but it doesnt mean trae isnt a clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than mark price
    So are you trying to say Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than Mark Price? If so, what is that based on?

  7. #57
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    calling someone is a plumber isn't to say they suck
    lefty's schtick is talking about how Jordan's opposition sucked. How Ehlo was a plumber looking guy, and how Starks was a grocery bagger, and that their defense on Jordan was wildly exaggerated.
    compared to being defended and going toe to toe with guys like kawhi, kobe, pierce, etc then sure they "suck", but its pretty obvious hes not saying that they are total trash as players themselves. as mentioned, when he puts aside his trolling schtick, he has given plenty of compliments to jordans compe ion too. hairsplitting

    I don't see Trae being superior at all, because he has the greenlight to shoot on a team with no hope of winning.

    Stackhouse had a 30/5/4 season, Michael Adams had a 26/10/2 season, and I won't consider them better seasons than Mark Price's peak.
    good for you

    Trae Young's advanced stats are underwhelming, especially when compared to what his traditional stats look.
    considering how trash his team is, its pretty understandable that his stats are underwhelming, compared to price who was on a very good cleveland team and arguably wasnt even the best player on his team, yet made 1st team All-NBA because the guard position was so devoid of talent in the 90s, which was the point of the whole discussion

    And about splitting hairs when you are trying to argue saying an NBA is a plumber, although jokingly, isn't saying he sucked.
    normally i would agree, except in leftys case it was obvious trolling and im quite confident he doesnt legitimately believe mark price sucks, based on past posts hes made

    So are you trying to say Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted basketball player than Mark Price? If so, what is that based on?
    arguably better all around shooter
    clearly more range
    clearly better finisher
    arguably better passer
    clearly better ball handler
    more size
    more athleticism

    im no trae young fan at all, but its pretty clear he has far more talent and gifts than price did. even with a green light like young has, i have a hard time believing price could match it due to the aforementioned. oh, and we are comparing a 2nd year trae, to prime price.

  8. #58
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    compared to being defended and going toe to toe with guys like kawhi, kobe, pierce, etc then sure they "suck", but its pretty obvious hes not saying that they are total trash as players themselves. as mentioned, when he puts aside his trolling schtick, he has given plenty of compliments to jordans compe ion too. hairsplitting
    Saying a player is a plumber isn;t calling him total trash? OK.


    considering how trash his team is, its pretty understandable that his stats are underwhelming, compared to price who was on a very good cleveland team and arguably wasnt even the best player on his team, yet made 1st team All-NBA because the guard position was so devoid of talent in the 90s, which was the point of the whole discussion
    No doubt the year Price made All NBA 1st team the PG position was trash, never argued otherwise.

    normally i would agree, except in leftys case it was obvious trolling and im quite confident he doesnt legitimately believe mark price sucks, based on past posts hes made
    You were saying about splitting hairs?


    arguably better all around shooter
    You can argue, but Price has better 2P%, 3P%, eFG%, FT%, and TS%
    clearly more range
    Changing emphasis in different eras
    clearly better finisher
    why?
    arguably better passer
    why?
    [QUOTE=Neo.;10373891]clearly better ball handler[quote]why?
    so?
    more athleticism
    so?

    im no trae young fan at all, but its pretty clear he has far more talent and gifts than price did. even with a green light like young has, i have a hard time believing price could match it due to the aforementioned. oh, and we are comparing a 2nd year trae, to prime price.
    2nd year Price was good enough to convince the Cavs to ship Kevin Johnson out.

  9. #59
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Saying a player is a plumber isn;t calling him total trash? OK.
    cool

    No doubt the year Price made All NBA 1st team the PG position was trash, never argued otherwise.
    cool

    You were saying about splitting hairs?
    splitting hairs vs substantial evidence that you dont know what youre talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing

    incomparable

    You can argue, but Price has better 2P%, 3P%, eFG%, FT%, and TS%
    as a guy who got to basically shoot open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays, compared to a guy who has to do nearly everything offensively for his team

    jason kidd had some great 3pt%s for a few years, superior to ray allen. does that make him a better three point shooter than ray allen?

    Changing emphasis in different eras
    irrelevant

    ok

    so greater size and athleticism doesnt generally give players an advantage? particularly when comparing two who play the same position?

    2nd year Price was good enough to convince the Cavs to ship Kevin Johnson out.
    apparently a rookie KJ being traded means 2nd year Price => 2nd year Trae

  10. #60
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    cool

    cool

    splitting hairs vs substantial evidence that you dont know what youre talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing

    incomparable
    normally i would agree, except in leftys case it was obvious trolling and im quite confident he doesnt legitimately believe mark price sucks, based on past posts hes made
    That's some incredible evidence right there

    as a guy who got to basically shoot open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays, compared to a guy who has to do nearly everything offensively for his team
    Mark price was basically shooting open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays? OK. Great substantial evidence.

    jason kidd had some great 3pt%s for a few years, superior to ray allen. does that make him a better three point shooter than ray allen?
    I said you can argue. So what's your argument? You brought it up, now show your substantial evidence.

    Is it more or less irrelevant than Jason Kidd and Ray Allen's 3 pt shooting percentage to whether Trae Young or Mark price as the better shooter?


    Killer evidence.

    so greater size and athleticism doesnt generally give players an advantage? particularly when comparing two who play the same position?
    did I say that? You did use them to use it as substantial evidence to say that Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted a basketball player than Mark Price though. Giving an advantage doesn't mean clearly more talented and gifted

    apparently a rookie KJ being traded means 2nd year Price => 2nd year Trae
    Did I say that?

  11. #61
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    That's some incredible evidence right there
    show your evidence that it was claimed in this thread that mark price sucks

    Mark price was basically shooting open spot up jumpers and run some PnR plays? OK. Great substantial evidence.
    you're welcome to share your substantial evidence that mark price was superior

    I said you can argue. So what's your argument? You brought it up, now show your substantial evidence.
    watch some video. you know where to find them.

    Is it more or less irrelevant than Jason Kidd and Ray Allen's 3 pt shooting percentage to whether Trae Young or Mark price as the better shooter?
    do you consider %s to be absolute evidence of whether a person is a superior shooter to another?

    feel free to share your counter evidence

    did I say that? You did use them to use it as substantial evidence to say that Trae Young is clearly more talented and gifted a basketball player than Mark Price though. Giving an advantage doesn't mean clearly more talented and gifted
    did i say you said that? i simply asked a question. do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?

    did i say you said that? what was your point of even bringing that up? what did it prove?

  12. #62
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    show your evidence that it was claimed in this thread that mark price sucks
    So calling someone a plumber isn’t saying he sucks? Different standards I guess.
    This was the first thing I wrote.


    you're welcome to share your substantial evidence that mark price was superior
    I never claimed so, it was you who claimed Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted.


    watch some video. you know where to find them.
    You mean these?


    Quite a few plays that weren't spot up jumpers or pick and rolls.

    do you consider %s to be absolute evidence of whether a person is a superior shooter to another?
    Not absolute evidence, better evidence than "lefty once said" though.

    it's comical how it was "nobody said" for you, then when it was somebody else, it has to be "substantial evidence" and now "absolute evidence" when you haven't provided for the claim you staked.

    feel free to share your counter evidence
    Counter evidence to "OK "? Maybe you can show some examples.

    did i say you said that? i simply asked a question. do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?
    I asked for back up to you saying Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted than Mark Price as a baskeball player, you stated height and athleticism as that, and continuously go for substantial evidence. How else can I interpret it?

    did i say you said that? what was your point of even bringing that up? what did it prove?
    You said second year Trae Young, I am saying 2nd year Mark Price was good enough to let Cavs deal away KJ, meaning 2nd year is good enough for Price to show himself as a legit PG.
    Last edited by ambchang; 12-22-2020 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #63
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    This was the first thing I wrote.
    oh okay, so no one said he sucks? got it

    I never claimed so, it was you who claimed Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted.
    i never said you claimed he was superior. just that if you think so, then provide your evidence. you did however, say "I don't see Trae being superior at all". so either you believe they are equal as players, or you believe price is superior. what do you believe?

    You mean these?


    Quite a few plays that weren't spot up jumpers or pick and rolls.
    quite a few that were too. in "mixtape" and "highlight" videos

    Not absolute evidence, better evidence than "lefty once said" though.
    when did i ever use anything lefty said as evidence in regards to the superiority of a player in this discussion? if you are actually reaching and misquoting me when talking about his "plumber" shtick to try to make a pointless point

    it's comical how it was "nobody said" for you, then when it was somebody else, it has to be "substantial evidence" and now "absolute evidence" when you haven't provided for the claim you staked.

    Counter evidence to "OK "? Maybe you can show some examples.
    simply watching basketball is a good starting point for some proof.

    it would be one thing if we were comparing whether shaq or timmy was more dominant in the post, as they both were incredibly dominant. its another thing to compare whether mark price or trae young is a more talented basketball player. not even comparable. im not going to waste my time providing examples when most any moron can pull up games on youtube and see it. and this is coming from a guy who was a fan of price and does not care for trae one bit.

    I asked for back up to you saying Trae Young was clearly more talented and gifted than Mark Price as a baskeball player, you stated height and athleticism as that, and continuously go for substantial evidence. How else can I interpret it?
    do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?

    You said second year Trae Young, I am saying 2nd year Mark Price was good enough to let Cavs deal away KJ, meaning 2nd year is good enough for Price to show himself as a legit PG.
    if it had absolutely nothing to do with comparing him to trae young, then why bring it up? or did it have to do with trae young?



    regardless, i know you arent going to stop per usual, and i have run out of interest with going back and forth with you per usual. enjoy getting one last reply to this to get your "win", even though you already proved my whole point of the comparison in the first place when you admitted guard compe ion was weak when price made 1st team all nba

  14. #64
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    simply watching basketball is a good starting point for some proof.
    The irony in this statement is overwhelmingly hilarious

    You recently followed me into the political forum claiming that I'm supposedly a "top 10 worst poster" of all time because I have mentioned players not passing the eye test. Now you claim it's evidence ...ok then. Pot meet kettle.

    And size and athleticism are legit arguments for Trae over Price. But that's it. The rest of it is subjective. An example - we don't know if Trae actually had better range than Price because Mark didn't take bad shots.

  15. #65
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    The irony in this statement is overwhelmingly hilarious

    You recently followed me into the political forum claiming that I'm supposedly a "top 10 worst poster" of all time because I have mentioned players not passing the eye test. Now you claim it's evidence ...ok then. Pot meet kettle.
    crying relentlessly about straw man arguments yet continuing to do them yourself

    And size and athleticism are legit arguments for Trae over Price. But that's it. The rest of it is subjective. An example - we don't know if Trae actually had better range than Price because Mark didn't take bad shots.
    long threes aren't bad shots if you can hit them consistently enough that defenses are forced to defend it at all times

    price never proved he had it. trae has.

    literally seeing clear evidence of superiority is not subjective.

    comparing whether players would be effective or not in other eras is a completely different argument and very subjective.

  16. #66
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    oh okay, so no one said he sucks? got it
    Yeah, I said it in the first response. Just that you enjoy drawing attention to you not being able to read ... for the second time in the same thread.

    i never said you claimed he was superior. just that if you think so, then provide your evidence. you did however, say "I don't see Trae being superior at all". so either you believe they are equal as players, or you believe price is superior. what do you believe?
    I believe Price's 1st team NBA year was better than Trae's 2nd year. My rationale is that he had better advanced stats in most areas. Is there evidence, no. What evidence? Are we talking about a murder case here?

    quite a few that were too. in "mixtape" and "highlight" videos
    So you said he posted those shooting numbers as a spot up shooter and running PnR plays, I posted videos that showed otherwise, including one with highlights throughout the entire game. What's your "evidence" that he did get those numbers? You threw out the assertion, and continuously demanded me proving otherwise while not showing anything to back up your claim.


    when did i ever use anything lefty said as evidence in regards to the superiority of a player in this discussion? if you are actually reaching and misquoting me when talking about his "plumber" shtick to try to make a pointless point
    You said looked at previous post from lefty, and you didn't quote any of his post. Show your work.

    simply watching basketball is a good starting point for some proof.
    As contrary to what?

    it would be one thing if we were comparing whether shaq or timmy was more dominant in the post, as they both were incredibly dominant. its another thing to compare whether mark price or trae young is a more talented basketball player. not even comparable. im not going to waste my time providing examples when most any moron can pull up games on youtube and see it. and this is coming from a guy who was a fan of price and does not care for trae one bit.
    So your evidence is that your claim is self-proving. And yet you are asking for "substantial evidence" and "absolute evidence" when I have shown that Price had better shooting percentage in nearly every measurable category when you claimed Trae being a shooter as argument of Trae being clearly a more talented basketball player.

    Yeah, absolutely no irony here.

    do you not believe that size and athleticism factor into the level of talents and gifts a basketball player has?
    It helps, just like jumping high helps. Didn't help argue Gerald Green was clearly a more talented and gifted basketball player than Steve Nash though.

    if it had absolutely nothing to do with comparing him to trae young, then why bring it up? or did it have to do with trae young?
    It does have something to do with 2nd year is meaningful though.

    regardless, i know you arent going to stop per usual, and i have run out of interest with going back and forth with you per usual. enjoy getting one last reply to this to get your "win", even though you already proved my whole point of the comparison in the first place when you admitted guard compe ion was weak when price made 1st team all nba
    you fall to this "I am not going to respond because I knew my win" shtick every time you get your pushed it.

  17. #67
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    crying relentlessly about straw man arguments yet continuing to do them yourself



    long threes aren't bad shots if you can hit them consistently enough that defenses are forced to defend it at all times

    price never proved he had it. trae has.

    literally seeing clear evidence of superiority is not subjective.

    comparing whether players would be effective or not in other eras is a completely different argument and very subjective.
    I don't see you throwing those " I ran out of things to argue with your stupid ass arguments" line. So I guess you still think you can argue with Dirk_Finale some more.

  18. #68
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    cool story bro

    tldr

  19. #69
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    A discussion about the top 100 players in the NBA today develops into an entire thread on ... Mark Price v. Trae Young!!!

    You truly never know how these things turn out.

  20. #70
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    the irony.


    cool story bro

    tldr
    regardless, i know you arent going to stop per usual, and i have run out of interest with going back and forth with you per usual. enjoy getting one last reply to this to get your "win", even though you already proved my whole point of the comparison in the first place when you admitted guard compe ion was weak when price made 1st team all nba
    That was your whole point?

    Not sure what these posts were about then:

    to clarify, I actually liked mark price a lot. I think he would be successful in any era. and I like him a lot more than I like trae young. but they skill levels between the two simply aren't comparable.

    I don't believe in trae's playing style at all. I also don't think a team could win a championship with him as the #1. his size simply limits him too much. but to deny that he has an exceptional level of talent and skill would be silly. and to think mark price could have the same level of success even if given the same type of offense would be ridiculous. as solid of a player as he was, he simply had too many limitations compared to modern elite guards.

    also to think mark price would have even a chance at making 1st team all NBA in an era rich with fantastic guards like Luka, Harden, Steph, Dame, Butler, Russ, CP3, Kemba, Klay, etc... would just be absurd.
    you obviously havent paid much attention to leftys "plumber" shtick when referring to 90s players, and the fact that hes actually complimented some of those players quite a bit even

    try to catch up some time



    lets see

    trae has exponentially superior stats to mark price

    you have attributed it to "inflated stats" nowadays, as a result of changing systems, rules, and defensive focus. among giving all these reasons, nowhere did you mention that trae could simply be a superior talent to mark price. it would appear you do not believe that he is a superior player. but perhaps you do.

    enjoy proceeding to split more hairs in order to win a sub-argument that no one cares about except for you
    Last edited by ambchang; 12-29-2020 at 01:02 PM.

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