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  1. #501
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    The trade works financially, according to Trade NBA, because Philly would be taking Murray, Walker, and Smith. I think 3 firsts would seal the deal, with only two coming from the Spurs. That's not a lot to give up in my opinion. With the Bulls 2025 pick, the Spurs would really only be out of 1 first rounder.
    It’s a little rich for me given the leverage/dynamics right now. Maybe Minni offers better pick capital, but they aren’t sending a player back now thar helps Joel. Who else is offering more tbh?

    At least protect the picks if you’re the Spurs.

  2. #502
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    Either swap out Walker for Hutch or turn that 24 pick into the Chicago pick.
    This. Id favor worse of CHI or SAS pick in 2025 type of thing.

  3. #503
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    This. Id favor worse of CHI or SAS pick in 2025 type of thing.
    I'd rather give up a better pick from Chicago and let the Spurs keep their natural picks unen bered. The point of the change would be so SA could trade their picks with only Stepien restriction as soon as next summer. If they're going to trade for Simmons, they need to be prepared to make moves to capitalize on having him. They can't do that if they're locked out of trading picks until 2026 at the soonest.

  4. #504
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    He's owed big time money and yeah he's young, but not that young. He's hitting that age where he is what he is.
    His flaw is huge, can't shoot. Either it shots outside the lane or free throw. It's not only he can't shoot, but in addition he won't even try. At 25 I'm not sure how much better he's going to get.

    He reminds me of a middle infielder who suddenly has trouble throwing to 1st. It's not easily correctable

    I'd say no
    Of course I don't think the Spurs have a good offer
    The Spurs haven't offered anything because they're way smarter than the people in this thread, but you're right otherwise: you'd need to take on assets to take Simmons' salary. This thread is a continued source of hilarity, however.

  5. #505
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    I'd rather give up a better pick from Chicago and let the Spurs keep their natural picks unen bered. The point of the change would be so SA could trade their picks with only Stepien restriction as soon as next summer. If they're going to trade for Simmons, they need to be prepared to make moves to capitalize on having him. They can't do that if they're locked out of trading picks until 2026 at the soonest.
    You only need to have a first rd pick it does not have to be your first rd pick.

  6. #506
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    This team needs to be collecting picks. Not giving them away.

    Why trade for a former 1st pick when we might be getting a few of our own with the roster we have now haha

    Even with Simmons this team is years away. Why risk giving up a potential franchise player when you’d need to get another one if you traded for Simmons, who is clearly not one?

  7. #507
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    You only need to have a first rd pick it does not have to be your first rd pick.
    No. You need to have a guaranteed first-round pick. For Stepien purposes, the Bulls pick doesn't mean anything. If the Bulls pick was unprotected, then it would count.

  8. #508
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    No. You need to have a guaranteed first-round pick. For Stepien purposes, the Bulls pick doesn't mean anything. If the Bulls pick was unprotected, then it would count.
    Ok I thought you were saying the pick could not count because it was ours. But you are correct with the guaranteed.

  9. #509
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    Ok I thought you were saying the pick could not count because it was ours. But you are correct with the guaranteed.
    Yeah, basically if the Spurs just trade the Bulls pick, they'd be able to trade their 22, 24, 26 and 28 picks in addition to the 25 CHI. If they did that weird swap, then they could only trade 22 or 23 and 27 or 28. So that's twice as many en bered picks in an effort to keep the better pick. And depending on how it was worded, it might block out trading that 27/28 pick, making the en bering even worse.

    By far, if the Spurs had the choice to give up two picks, 22 unprotected and the 25 CHI are the best two to move from the team's perspective. If the 22 first ends up being a late-lottery, all the better for future trades.

  10. #510
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    Yeah, basically if the Spurs just trade the Bulls pick, they'd be able to trade their 22, 24, 26 and 28 picks in addition to the 25 CHI. If they did that weird swap, then they could only trade 22 or 23 and 27 or 28. So that's twice as many en bered picks in an effort to keep the better pick. And depending on how it was worded, it might block out trading that 27/28 pick, making the en bering even worse.

    By far, if the Spurs had the choice to give up two picks, 22 unprotected and the 25 CHI are the best two to move from the team's perspective. If the 22 first ends up being a late-lottery, all the better for future trades.
    BUt they could do something like the worse of Spurs and chicago pick and if they do not have 2 then it would be 2 2nd or something like that. It would slightly weaken the value of the trade but still give the Spurs a guaranteed pick that year.

  11. #511
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    BUt they could do something like the worse of Spurs and chicago pick and if they do not have 2 then it would be 2 2nd or something like that. It would slightly weaken the value of the trade but still give the Spurs a guaranteed pick that year.
    I mean, they certainly could just offer two seconds and hope Philly takes it. But there's a real chance the Bulls don't even have a chance to convey that first going into the 24/25 season. It might get pushed back to a 2026 pick if Chicago somehow keeps its pick this year.

  12. #512
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    It’s a little rich for me given the leverage/dynamics right now. Maybe Minni offers better pick capital, but they aren’t sending a player back now thar helps Joel. Who else is offering more tbh?

    At least protect the picks if you’re the Spurs.
    I think that the 2022 first would be a key part of the Spurs offer, so protecting it would hurt their offer considering that they'd still likely miss the playoffs next season. Maybe protect the '24 pick further, but with Morey, protections are especially key. Maybe the Spurs could get away with a top 10 protection in '24 but that protection lasts two or three seasons (similar to how the Bulls pick protections are). That way the Spurs wouldn't have to give up another lottery pick, in theory at least, while Philly gets three guaranteed 1sts (2 from the Spurs and 1 from the Suns).


    Its going to be about saving face for Morey, If he can get Murray, Walker, and 3 firsts--including a likely top 10 pick next year, then that's probably the best offer he's getting. All things considered, that's not a lot to give up.

  13. #513
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    I'd rather give up a better pick from Chicago and let the Spurs keep their natural picks unen bered. The point of the change would be so SA could trade their picks with only Stepien restriction as soon as next summer. If they're going to trade for Simmons, they need to be prepared to make moves to capitalize on having him. They can't do that if they're locked out of trading picks until 2026 at the soonest.
    I don't think its possible to keep our own picks in a trade for Simmons. Maybe the '22 pick (still unprotected) and the '25 Bulls pick is doable. I like the idea of a three-teamer, in which the Spurs can ship Thad Young to the Suns in exchange for a first that can be rerouted to the 76ers.

    Spurs Get:

    Ben Simmons
    Dario Saric

    Philly Gets:

    Murray
    Walker
    Jalen Smith
    2022 Spurs Unprotected 1st
    2025 Bulls protected 1st
    2024 Phoenix 1st (lottery protected)


    Phoenix Gets:

    Thad Young

    I think that's about as compe ive offer as the 76ers are likely to get. As for the Spurs, don't gut their team while still having assets to build around him plus the remaining young players could still hit.

  14. #514
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    I don't think its possible to keep our own picks in a trade for Simmons. Maybe the '22 pick (still unprotected) and the '25 Bulls pick is doable. I like the idea of a three-teamer, in which the Spurs can ship Thad Young to the Suns in exchange for a first that can be rerouted to the 76ers.

    Spurs Get:

    Ben Simmons
    Dario Saric

    Philly Gets:

    Murray
    Walker
    Jalen Smith
    2022 Spurs Unprotected 1st
    2025 Bulls protected 1st
    2024 Phoenix 1st (lottery protected)


    Phoenix Gets:

    Thad Young

    I think that's about as compe ive offer as the 76ers are likely to get. As for the Spurs, don't gut their team while still having assets to build around him plus the remaining young players could still hit.
    My post is in the context of saying that if the Spurs can give up the Chicago pick outright rather than give up "the worst of Chicago's and SA's 2025 pick", then I'd prefer it. In that scenario, 2022 is unprotected and going to Philly. My point was that if the Spurs can pull off that trade, then they'd be able to trade any of their 2023-2029 picks next off-season. So if they saw an all-in trade that could put them over the top, they'd be able to do it more easily.

  15. #515
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    Three players and three number ones for broken shot Ben Simmons,, you've got to be kidding. Plus he earns 30 plus million dollars. Do you realize how difficult it would be to get rid of his contract if he didn't like playing in San Antonio after a year? I know I'll take heat for this but here goes:

    Don't involve Phoenix, we aren't getting much from them any way.

    The trade:
    Thaddeus Young - We were lucky to get anything for DeRozen, at least we have a few picks left - maybe
    D. Murray - Don't see him playing well with Simmons plus he makes about 15 million for salary matching purposes.
    C. Hutchinson - He's probably getting waived no matter where he plays...at that point it wouldn't be our problem any more.
    A number 1 pick - whichever the sixers want, a spurs top 10 protected pick or a Bulls pick.
    A number 2 pick - whichever the sixers want, a spurs#2 pick or a Bulls #2 pick which I believe we own also.

    for

    Ben Simmons & Paul Reed

    I know that this isn't great a trade for Philly, but too bad. They are trying to screw anyone who would actually trade 3 plus players and three number one picks for broke shot, don't want to be in Philly anymore diva Ben Simmons. I'm sure that other GM's are laughing at their demands.
    Think about it, the salaries just about match or we take in more salary which lowers their tax bill. You don't think Murray and Young together wont score more points and get more rebounds than one hate to shoot Ben Simmons. Plus we are throwing in 2 pretty decent draft picks. Again I know this isn't the best trade for Simmons, but if Philly wants that much more, let Minnesota or Sacramento duke it out to see who gets screwed over worse and sets their franchise back five years.

  16. #516
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    I think that the 2022 first would be a key part of the Spurs offer, so protecting it would hurt their offer considering that they'd still likely miss the playoffs next season. Maybe protect the '24 pick further, but with Morey, protections are especially key. Maybe the Spurs could get away with a top 10 protection in '24 but that protection lasts two or three seasons (similar to how the Bulls pick protections are). That way the Spurs wouldn't have to give up another lottery pick, in theory at least, while Philly gets three guaranteed 1sts (2 from the Spurs and 1 from the Suns).


    Its going to be about saving face for Morey, If he can get Murray, Walker, and 3 firsts--including a likely top 10 pick next year, then that's probably the best offer he's getting. All things considered, that's not a lot to give up.
    This shows how bad a player is. People are saying we get him and we still will finish pretty low. It would be better for us to keep our rookie this year and draft a good player with it.

  17. #517
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    This shows how bad a player is. People are saying we get him and we still will finish pretty low. It would be better for us to keep our rookie this year and draft a good player with it.
    That doesn't show how bad a player is. Anything can happen in future years. Look at GS getting the second-overall pick a year after playing in the Finals.

    Simmons doesn't make the Spurs a contender, but if they keep most of their good players, they should make the playoffs. More importantly, they should have the ability to make future trades to be a contender. Bypassing Simmons and drafting a rookie almost certainly doesn't do that.

  18. #518
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    If we trade for Simmons, then we go from tanking to going for the playoffs this year. I don't see us trading Young away at that point because he's a good player. I personally would prefer to tank and get a franchise player (even though the odds of that are low). I would only off up to:

    Murray, Walker, Aminu & Bulls 2025 First Rd pick.

    I believe that saves the 76ers around $3mil this year for tax purposes. If they don't accept the trade, I'd walk away.

  19. #519
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    That doesn't show how bad a player is. Anything can happen in future years. Look at GS getting the second-overall pick a year after playing in the Finals.

    Simmons doesn't make the Spurs a contender, but if they keep most of their good players, they should make the playoffs. More importantly, they should have the ability to make future trades to be a contender. Bypassing Simmons and drafting a rookie almost certainly doesn't do that.
    Your useing flawed logic to say GS got a 2nd rd pick the year after playing in the finals. Yes this happend but the also lost almost all of their players to injury (kd left). Its like saying the bulls were no good the year after they won the last championship. This would be with Simmons staying healthy we would still be expected to get a top 10 pick. Even with DDR we did not get a top 10 pick. I do not see Simmons having a positive impact on the team. I would rather get a high pick then Simmons. I am of the camp of I do not want Simmons at any cost though.

  20. #520
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    Your useing flawed logic to say GS got a 2nd rd pick the year after playing in the finals. Yes this happend but the also lost almost all of their players to injury (kd left). Its like saying the bulls were no good the year after they won the last championship. This would be with Simmons staying healthy we would still be expected to get a top 10 pick. Even with DDR we did not get a top 10 pick. I do not see Simmons having a positive impact on the team. I would rather get a high pick then Simmons. I am of the camp of I do not want Simmons at any cost though.
    Injuries can happen. This is exactly what Chinook meant I think. His logic is not flawed at all.

  21. #521
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    He reminds me of a middle infielder who suddenly has trouble throwing to 1st. It's not easily correctable
    IDK, that's more like Markelle Fultz IMO. This might just be Simmons not shooting low percentage (for him) shots.

  22. #522
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    Your useing flawed logic to say GS got a 2nd rd pick the year after playing in the finals. Yes this happend but the also lost almost all of their players to injury (kd left). Its like saying the bulls were no good the year after they won the last championship. This would be with Simmons staying healthy we would still be expected to get a top 10 pick. Even with DDR we did not get a top 10 pick. I do not see Simmons having a positive impact on the team. I would rather get a high pick then Simmons. I am of the camp of I do not want Simmons at any cost though.
    Yeah, you protect picks precisely because unexpected situations arise that cripples a team for a year. Simmons and White could tear their ACLs, and that would yield a high lotto pick. Or they could be healthy and the Spurs could make a playoff run and yield a low pick. If you protect a pick, you remove the downside.

    Of course I'm against protecting a pick for reasons I've explained. But wanting protection doesn't speak badly of Simmons at all.

  23. #523
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    It’s a little rich for me given the leverage/dynamics right now. Maybe Minni offers better pick capital, but they aren’t sending a player back now thar helps Joel. Who else is offering more tbh?

    At least protect the picks if you’re the Spurs.
    Agreed. Simmons isn't worth Murray and three firsts or Murray + Young and two firsts, at least in this market where Morey is bent over the table. I only want a Simmons trade if the Spurs can pull off a total rape deal like the Raptors pulled on the Spurs for Leonard+Green with Poetl + a first as the only real assets (DePression was just a salary dump for them, like Aminu would be for the Spurs in such a deal).

  24. #524
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    IDK, that's more like Markelle Fultz IMO. This might just be Simmons not shooting low percentage (for him) shots.
    I agree it's not a perfect analogy, but he doesn't shoot. Is a liability in a close game because of his FT%. I think this probably more than Chip can fix. Add the huge contract

  25. #525
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    Agreed. Simmons isn't worth Murray and three firsts or Murray + Young and two firsts, at least in this market where Morey is bent over the table. I only want a Simmons trade if the Spurs can pull off a total rape deal like the Raptors pulled on the Spurs for Leonard+Green with Poetl + a first as the only real assets (DePression was just a salary dump for them, like Aminu would be for the Spurs in such a deal).
    Keldon texted

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