Page 18 of 37 FirstFirst ... 814151617181920212228 ... LastLast
Results 426 to 450 of 924
  1. #426
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Post Count
    6,113
    I wouldn’t say he’s a slacker, more like has zero confidence and doesn’t realize he’s better than he thinks he is? But not saying he’s a hard worker either.

  2. #427
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Post Count
    1,349
    22nd highest paid center.
    Everybody agreed that the Spurs had a great deal when he signed his new contract.
    Last edited by Rocalcio; 09-20-2021 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #428
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,908
    Those who look at Poeltl's weaknesses and call him a bust/slacker are morons. Poeltl has steadily improved as a 7'1'' center in a league where centers are dinosaurs. He has among the best per minute plus /minus contributions in the league. Why? Because he does all the little things very well - setting screens, constant motion, good on finishing, excellent rim protection and good enough to play in an island against wing players too. It is good to expect him to get better and it was frustrating to see him regress in FT shooting last year, but to his credit, he was way better during the later half of the season than the earlier one and it looked like his stroke was much better and consistent. To expect him to become a three point shooter is foolish. Very very few centers - Brook Lopez, Myles Turner have suddenly become useful at that and even there they are not more than average shooters. Beyond a point, in crunch time, three point shooting by centers like those isn't as valuable as having a post game and being able to play as a pick and roll finisher, unless you are a much better dead eye shooter like say Kristaps Porzingis.

    Which is why I think Poeltl needs to improve at other stuff - occasional post scoring, maybe develop a decent hook shot and more importantly, finish stronger at the rim when the opportunity presents itself rather than always going the soft layup route (which he is good at too). If Samanic, Johnson and White improve their three point shooting and consistency, the Spurs can be a tough nut to crack even if Murray and Poeltl aren't strong threats as 3 point scorers. They would play very good defense and will be a good White/Murray led motion-offense team. The onus is on Johnson, White, Samanic therefore, this season to take care of wing scoring. Poeltl and Murray can keep expanding on their key strengths rather than finding something alien to their game.

  4. #429
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Post Count
    5,613
    Poodle is azz. Where else in the league would he be starting aside from SA?

  5. #430
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Post Count
    1,349
    Poodle is azz. Where else in the league would he be starting aside from SA?
    Brooklyn, Charlotte, Dallas, Detroit, LA Clippers, New York, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Sacramento, Toronto, Washington.

  6. #431
    Pop took his brain back. xellos88330's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Post Count
    6,409
    I agree that there were times when I wish he was more aggressive with the ball. The question is if he has the tools to do it with a positive outcome consistently. It is a big role, and I am hoping he is up to it.

  7. #432
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    Those who look at Poeltl's weaknesses and call him a bust/slacker are morons. Poeltl has steadily improved as a 7'1'' center in a league where centers are dinosaurs. He has among the best per minute plus /minus contributions in the league. Why? Because he does all the little things very well - setting screens, constant motion, good on finishing, excellent rim protection and good enough to play in an island against wing players too. It is good to expect him to get better and it was frustrating to see him regress in FT shooting last year, but to his credit, he was way better during the later half of the season than the earlier one and it looked like his stroke was much better and consistent. To expect him to become a three point shooter is foolish. Very very few centers - Brook Lopez, Myles Turner have suddenly become useful at that and even there they are not more than average shooters. Beyond a point, in crunch time, three point shooting by centers like those isn't as valuable as having a post game and being able to play as a pick and roll finisher, unless you are a much better dead eye shooter like say Kristaps Porzingis.

    Which is why I think Poeltl needs to improve at other stuff - occasional post scoring, maybe develop a decent hook shot and more importantly, finish stronger at the rim when the opportunity presents itself rather than always going the soft layup route (which he is good at too). If Samanic, Johnson and White improve their three point shooting and consistency, the Spurs can be a tough nut to crack even if Murray and Poeltl aren't strong threats as 3 point scorers. They would play very good defense and will be a good White/Murray led motion-offense team. The onus is on Johnson, White, Samanic therefore, this season to take care of wing scoring. Poeltl and Murray can keep expanding on their key strengths rather than finding something alien to their game.
    So a top 10 pick who plays less than 25 minutes a game, averages like 6 and 6 and can’t shoot the ball past 3 feet isn’t a bust? Would love to have you as my boss. Also when you show up in the beginning of last season out of shape, didn’t work on your offensive game at all during the summer, AND start off by shooting 18% from the foul line, I think it’s more than a little fair to say he slacked during his off time. He’s a guy that needs constant coaching and attention to be an average player. Some people are gym rats and look for ways to improve while others are just 7 feet tall and happy to be where they are at.

  8. #433
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    Brooklyn, Charlotte, Dallas, Detroit, LA Clippers, New York, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Sacramento, Toronto, Washington.
    So other ty ass tanking teams?

  9. #434
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    1,103
    So a top 10 pick who plays less than 25 minutes a game, averages like 6 and 6 and can’t shoot the ball past 3 feet isn’t a bust? Would love to have you as my boss. Also when you show up in the beginning of last season out of shape, didn’t work on your offensive game at all during the summer, AND start off by shooting 18% from the foul line, I think it’s more than a little fair to say he slacked during his off time. He’s a guy that needs constant coaching and attention to be an average player. Some people are gym rats and look for ways to improve while others are just 7 feet tall and happy to be where they are at.
    When I first read your post I thought you were talking about Simmons. Then I looked at the thread le and saw it was about Poeltl. Looked up Simmons numbers and his are 14 7 and 7. Poeltl is 8 and 8 though.

  10. #435
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    When I first read your post I thought you were talking about Simmons. Then I looked at the thread le and saw it was about Poeltl. Looked up Simmons numbers and his are 14 7 and 7. Poeltl is 8 and 8 though.
    You can call Simmons a bust too? Idgaf about that. Although he is a better player than Poeltl.

  11. #436
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    1,323
    He has his weakness, but you hardly can call him a bust when he is top 3 in shots contested and screen assist.

  12. #437
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Post Count
    1,349
    So other ty ass tanking teams?
    Yeah, especially Brooklyn and the Clippers...

  13. #438
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,908
    Yeah. Fools who look at box score raw numbers without understanding player impact in the 21st century NBA are basically what they are - fools. Meanwhile in terms of overall impact, Jakob Poeltl was joint 5th among Centers last season (based on fivethirtyeight.com). If I were a boss, I would lean on advanced numbers that capture player value holistically.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...layer-ratings/

  14. #439
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Post Count
    30,990
    Advanced stats -- especially an individual stat like RAPTOR -- won't give the complete picture of a player that some fans assume. Advanced stats are largely based on opinion for which combination of numbers makes the most sense in determining a player's value. Even ones based in RAPM have the major flaw of reducing players past the point of roles. It leads folks to assume a high-stat role-player is more important than a low-stat star.

    None of that says Poeltl wasn't a good center last year. But he's not objectively a top-five center just because RAPTOR says he was. It's evidence in his case, not a deciding factor by itself.

  15. #440
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,908
    Advanced stats -- especially an individual stat like RAPTOR -- won't give the complete picture of a player that some fans assume. Advanced stats are largely based on opinion for which combination of numbers makes the most sense in determining a player's value. Even ones based in RAPM have the major flaw of reducing players past the point of roles. It leads folks to assume a high-stat role-player is more important than a low-stat star.

    None of that says Poeltl wasn't a good center last year. But he's not objectively a top-five center just because RAPTOR says he was. It's evidence in his case, not a deciding factor by itself.
    My point is that he isn't a top 5 center because advanced stats say so, but that because advanced stats rate him so high, he is far from a bust and has much higher utility value than the average fans think about him.

  16. #441
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Post Count
    1,758
    Yeah. Fools who look at box score raw numbers without understanding player impact in the 21st century NBA are basically what they are - fools. Meanwhile in terms of overall impact, Jakob Poeltl was joint 5th among Centers last season (based on fivethirtyeight.com). If I were a boss, I would lean on advanced numbers that capture player value holistically.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...layer-ratings/
    A lot of posters still refer to RAPTOR, the top 3 now are DPM , EPM and LEBRON in order. https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//

  17. #442
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    Yeah, especially Brooklyn and the Clippers...
    Oh but Washington, OKC, Charlotte Detroit, Orlando, and Toronto are just all contenders

    Btw he wouldn't start in Dallas, that's an asinine statement. You don't bench a guy in the regular season that you're paying 33 million dollars a year to play. And he wouldn't start for the Knicks either. But yeah the Nets have 3 of the best shooters/creators ever at their position so he could work there. He wouldn't even work in Golden St. And Poeltl and Zubach are basically in the same role so why would he start on the Clippers? They already have their Poeltl

  18. #443
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    Yeah. Fools who look at box score raw numbers without understanding player impact in the 21st century NBA are basically what they are - fools. Meanwhile in terms of overall impact, Jakob Poeltl was joint 5th among Centers last season (based on fivethirtyeight.com). If I were a boss, I would lean on advanced numbers that capture player value holistically.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...layer-ratings/
    If you were a boss you would basically excuse ty performances in rather important elements bc he is decent in other ones? That makes zero sense. Poeltl isn't the 5th most impactful Center in the NBA. The advanced nuumbers for him look so good bc Pop is smart enough to not play him starters minutes. And impact on a ty team means less than impact on a good team. On basically every other good team, Poeltl would be a bench player

  19. #444
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Post Count
    1,349
    Oh but Washington, OKC, Charlotte Detroit, Orlando, and Toronto are just all contenders

    Btw he wouldn't start in Dallas, that's an asinine statement. You don't bench a guy in the regular season that you're paying 33 million dollars a year to play. And he wouldn't start for the Knicks either. But yeah the Nets have 3 of the best shooters/creators ever at their position so he could work there. He wouldn't even work in Golden St. And Poeltl and Zubach are basically in the same role so why would he start on the Clippers? They already have their Poeltl
    You were just talking about any NBA team, not only contenders.

    And we're not discussing the salary, just the level. I believe he would start in Dallas yes, even if another center has a higher salary.

  20. #445
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,908
    A lot of posters still refer to RAPTOR, the top 3 now are DPM , EPM and LEBRON in order. https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//
    Thanks for the link. DARKO DPM metrics rank him 9th on defense and 228th on offense to ulatively rank 46th in the NBA. Thats a good ranking for someone who is paid $9-10 million per year. Its excellent value for money.

  21. #446
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Post Count
    13,823
    So a top 10 pick who plays less than 25 minutes a game, averages like 6 and 6 and can’t shoot the ball past 3 feet isn’t a bust? Would love to have you as my boss. Also when you show up in the beginning of last season out of shape, didn’t work on your offensive game at all during the summer, AND start off by shooting 18% from the foul line, I think it’s more than a little fair to say he slacked during his off time. He’s a guy that needs constant coaching and attention to be an average player. Some people are gym rats and look for ways to improve while others are just 7 feet tall and happy to be where they are at.
    At counting stats without context in '21.

  22. #447
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    At counting stats without context in '21.
    Lot of stans here. I’ve never seen such love for a loser player before. I mean one crazy guy supporting Jimmer, sure. Even the playblair guy is crazy but he’s just one guy. But the amount of love for our loser starting Center whom sucks is beyond belief. I mean the dude sucks as a starter. And if he is your starting center then you aren’t contending.

    We used to celebrate champions in the Duncan era. All time greats in David and Ice. Role players who stepped up in the playoffs and redeemed themselves after disastrous beginnings like Sean and AJ and Bruce. And now we have fallen so low that we are championing Jakob ing Poeltl

    Here’s a list of things Poeltl can’t do or hasn’t achieved
    -play legit starter minutes (so all you es who whine to me about using stats outta context when you do the exact same ing thing when you bring up his advanced stats)
    - average double digit anything
    -make an all star team
    -make an all nba defense team (when supposedly he’s better than Gobert on defense according to some here)
    -make a positive impact in the playoffs
    -shoot the ball
    -be a threat to score and not have his man clog the paint all ing game long for our guards
    - play with intensity every night
    -show up in shape to start the season
    - be a leader
    -back up his talk/whining during the offseason
    -guard any big man that’s actually good
    -pay for teams hacking him
    -won any damn thing with us and make us not regret getting shafted by Toronto


    Things he can do or has done
    lead all role players in the Matt Bonner analytics department
    he can switch well and stick with guards (probably the thing everyone is so enamored with)
    however he follows that up with
    -plays good defense 3 outta 5 games
    -sets good screens
    -gets .8 rebounds more than our PG
    -has become a better finisher (still soft though)
    -is 7 feet and in the world of midgets that’s still nice to have
    -having idiots say how great he is

  23. #448
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Post Count
    3,347
    You were just talking about any NBA team, not only contenders.

    And we're not discussing the salary, just the level. I believe he would start in Dallas yes, even if another center has a higher salary.
    There’s no way he would start of Kristap. It just wouldn’t happen. You don’t give up three 1st rounders, pay a dude $33 million and then bench him. That’s stupid. You make that move and it’s a ride or die move. Dallas would die with Kristaps before starting Poeltl. He wouldn’t start on the Clippers so that’s another team gone. He wouldnt start for the Knicks either bc he doesn’t fit with Randle. My point is that if he is your starting center then you aren’t contending.

    I will give you the Nets though but that’s a rather special example when you have Harden, Durant, Kyrie who can all shoot and create for themselves and others.

    He wouldn’t start for the 76ers, Bucks, Knicks, Hawks, Heat, Celtics,Pacers, Bulls, Toronto, or the Cavs in the East. And I’m iffy on CHA tbh with Kai. That’s 4 teams he would be starting on imo and all of them suck save Brooklyn

    Now for the West he wouldn’t start for Utah, Phoenix, Dallas, Clips, Portland, Denver, Memphis, GS, NO, Minn, and Hou. That leaves Lakers, Spurs, Sac and OKC that he would start for. Lakers obviously the best of the group but once again you need a top 5 level talent in AD and an all time great in Lebron.

    So by my estimation, and you are welcome to disagree, he would start for 7 (maybe 8) other teams in the league. Not exactly the world beater these advanced stats and stans would have us believe

  24. #449
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    11,572
    Those who look at Poeltl's weaknesses and call him a bust/slacker are morons. Poeltl has steadily improved as a 7'1'' center in a league where centers are dinosaurs. He has among the best per minute plus /minus contributions in the league. Why? Because he does all the little things very well - setting screens, constant motion, good on finishing, excellent rim protection and good enough to play in an island against wing players too. It is good to expect him to get better and it was frustrating to see him regress in FT shooting last year, but to his credit, he was way better during the later half of the season than the earlier one and it looked like his stroke was much better and consistent. To expect him to become a three point shooter is foolish. Very very few centers - Brook Lopez, Myles Turner have suddenly become useful at that and even there they are not more than average shooters. Beyond a point, in crunch time, three point shooting by centers like those isn't as valuable as having a post game and being able to play as a pick and roll finisher, unless you are a much better dead eye shooter like say Kristaps Porzingis.

    Which is why I think Poeltl needs to improve at other stuff - occasional post scoring, maybe develop a decent hook shot and more importantly, finish stronger at the rim when the opportunity presents itself rather than always going the soft layup route (which he is good at too). If Samanic, Johnson and White improve their three point shooting and consistency, the Spurs can be a tough nut to crack even if Murray and Poeltl aren't strong threats as 3 point scorers. They would play very good defense and will be a good White/Murray led motion-offense team. The onus is on Johnson, White, Samanic therefore, this season to take care of wing scoring. Poeltl and Murray can keep expanding on their key strengths rather than finding something alien to their game.


    yeah right, not being able to develop a hook shot, one of the most basic moves in basketball, after 5 NBA seasons shows you exactly what kind of work ethic this guy has. It's hilarious to me how many people bash players but then want to defend a guy like Poeltl who publicly said he thinks he should start, but hasn't improved anywhere. All that you are saying is that his impact numbers improved, nothing else. Has he added any moves since college? In fact he actually posted up in college and looked way better offensively than he does now. Also nobody expects him to add a 3-point shot, yet this guy goes on IG and posts pics of him shooting corner 3s. Like WTF is he doing during the offseason?

    Nobody is saying that his contract hasn't value or that he isn't great defensively. But his offensive skillset is laughable for an NBA player.

  25. #450
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Post Count
    5,613
    Yeah, especially Brooklyn and the Clippers...
    you're out of your goddamn mind. No way does he start for Brooklyn or the clippers. lol. no. They would have been packaged him in a deal out of town.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •