1. #27776
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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  2. #27777
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    It's never been about Ukraine "winning", it's all about bleedissia. Winning means Russia suffering a similar collapse as they had in the 90's.
    Unstable Russia is bad news for the region. I've seen and heard both sides from the locals. IMO is all this worth getting Ukraine into NATO? Every European has experienced a decline in quality of life.

    If people think this will be some big domino (another collapse & regime change) I think you will be disappointed.


    Europeans are very vengeful and American regime is more than happy to participate or even spur it on.

  3. #27778
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Unstable Russia is bad news for the region. I've seen and heard both sides from the locals. IMO is all this worth getting Ukraine into NATO? Every European has experienced a decline in quality of life.

    If people think this will be some big domino (another collapse & regime change) I think you will be disappointed.


    Europeans are very vengeful and American regime is more than happy to participate or even spur it on.
    You wouldn't defend Poland against Russia.

    Sad.

  4. #27779
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    You wouldn't defend Poland against Russia.

    Sad.
    We've been ethnic neighbors with them longer than USA has existed. And possibly continues to exist. We have to find a way to live together.

  5. #27780
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    We've been ethnic neighbors with them longer than USA has existed. And possibly continues to exist. We have to find a way to live together.
    You confirm you wouldn't defend Poland against Russia.

    Sad.

  6. #27781
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    You confirm you wouldn't defend Poland against Russia.

    Sad.
    Warmongering. Today's Liberals.

  7. #27782
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Warmongering. Today's Liberals.
    Surrendering. Today's cowards.

  8. #27783
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Surrendering. Today's cowards.
    You been drinking?

    You're a kneeler that self-hates in the name of equality. I'd do this song and dance with you in a thread not involving Poland.

  9. #27784
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Unstable Russia is bad news for the region. I've seen and heard both sides from the locals. IMO is all this worth getting Ukraine into NATO? Every European has experienced a decline in quality of life.

    If people think this will be some big domino (another collapse & regime change) I think you will be disappointed.

    Europeans are very vengeful and American regime is more than happy to participate or even spur it on.
    Nothing to do with getting Ukraine into NATO. The fact is that no European country, especially those that used to be part of Russia wants anything to do Russia, especially this version of Russia.

    Europe has been postponing the inevitable. This Russia has been blackmailing them for a long time, it was long overdue that they cut their losses and move along.

    They called Putler's bluff this time after being hesitant with Crimea, and Russia is the one that's going to suffer the consequences in the long term, because their economy is simply not that big, and without selling energy and burning money on the war it's only a matter of time until they fold.

  10. #27785
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Nothing to do with getting Ukraine into NATO. The fact is that no European country, especially those that used to be part of Russia wants anything to do Russia, especially this version of Russia.

    Europe has been postponing the inevitable. This Russia has been blackmailing them for a long time, it was long overdue that they cut their losses and move along.

    They called Putler's bluff this time after being hesitant with Crimea, and Russia is the one that's going to suffer the consequences in the long term, because their economy is simply not that big, and without selling energy and burning money on the war it's only a matter of time until they fold.
    I agree. But does this benefit the common man? Looks like politicians drawing a line. Sure EU was being exploited but now we will pay higher prices anyway. Thru the scope of European, seems some wanted to flex and make a name for themselves.

    How does Russian resources being refocused to Asia help Europe? All this because Putin was being a meany pants about NATO.

    The only winner here is USA. Many Slavs have always loved to die for westeners.

  11. #27786
    Believe. horseshue's Avatar
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    Unstable Russia is bad news for the region. I've seen and heard both sides from the locals. IMO is all this worth getting Ukraine into NATO? Every European has experienced a decline in quality of life.

    If people think this will be some big domino (another collapse & regime change) I think you will be disappointed.


    Europeans are very vengeful and American regime is more than happy to participate or even spur it on.
    So you are saying that NATO should withdraw it's forces to it's 1997 borders, like russia demanded and let them swallow all eastern europe? That would definitely help improve russian relationship with west and help prevent this war. Is that what you want?

  12. #27787
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    So you are saying that NATO should withdraw it's forces to it's 1997 borders, like russia demanded and let them swallow all eastern europe? That would definitely help improve russian relationship with west and help prevent this war. Is that what you want?
    I am attempting to avoid absolutes. We are all 1st World nations and have the same needs & wants.

    Deeper we dig the more unreasonable everyone gets. We reached this point of understanding & prosperity by choice. Let's not lose sight of that.

  13. #27788
    Believe. horseshue's Avatar
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    I am attempting to avoid absolutes. We are all 1st World nations and have the same needs & wants.

    Deeper we dig the more unreasonable everyone gets. We reached this point of understanding & prosperity by choice. Let's not lose sight of that.
    I agree with you. But it doesn't answer the question. Right now you are pointing fingers at everyone (mainly west/NATO), but you do not offer any solution. So i ask you, what should west do? What should ukraine do?

  14. #27789
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    I agree with you. But it doesn't answer the question. Right now you are pointing fingers at everyone (mainly west/NATO), but you do not offer any solution. So i ask you, what should west do? What should ukraine do?
    To end the War I would agree with Ukraine being NATO neutral. I honestly don't see the point other than financial.

    Unless the underlining goal of NATO is to counter 1 nation in Europe.

    BUT Russia must accept that Ukraine will sooner than later join the EU

  15. #27790
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Ukraine is currently not NATO and yet being flooded with support. What's the difference. This is symbolic at this point. We aren't going to forward their application and draw a do-or-die line at their Eastern border anyway.

  16. #27791
    Believe. horseshue's Avatar
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    To end the War I would agree with Ukraine being NATO neutral. I honestly don't see the point other than financial.

    Unless the underlining goal of NATO is to counter 1 nation in Europe.

    BUT Russia must accept that Ukraine will sooner than later join the EU
    But russia want those occupied regions. How do you solve that? Do you really think russians will stop and go home once ukraine agrees to stay neutral? I know that you doesn't follow what is going on in russia right now, but trust me, it ain't gonna happen. Theyare preparing for war and they are ready to go all the way if necessary, and that includes nuclear war. Their state media is preparing masses for that and russian people are cheering for that. It is complete alternative reality, very similar to that in 1984 book.

  17. #27792
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    But russia want those occupied regions. How do you solve that? Do you really think russians will stop and go home once ukraine agrees to stay neutral? I know that you doesn't follow what is going on in russia right now, but trust me, it ain't gonna happen. Theyare preparing for war and they are ready to go all the way if necessary, and that includes nuclear war. Their state media is preparing masses for that and russian people are cheering for that. It is complete alternative reality, very similar to that in 1984 book.
    I understand. Short of total defeat there will continue to be skirmishes in the East, as there has. I get that argument that Russia needs to be drained. I hope it's the Ukranian people making such a decision and not politicians. The people are gone and cities following suit. They won't rebuild in our lifetime even if they join EU soon.

    Russia won't stop though. If they lie and agree to cease fire but continue what would the West truly do?

    Our map in the region has changed drastically. Ukraine is enormous by Slavic standards. At some point I would abandon some land in exchange for peace & rebuilding. Who truly has Ukrainians back beyond sending resources. They aren't the first or last in this position.

    > I don't think the average Russian buys into the Nazi Ukranian mantra but do believe this is them vs West

  18. #27793
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    Poland is taking the putler threat seriously.


  19. #27794
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  20. #27795
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I understand. Short of total defeat there will continue to be skirmishes in the East, as there has. I get that argument that Russia needs to be drained. I hope it's the Ukranian people making such a decision and not politicians. The people are gone and cities following suit. They won't rebuild in our lifetime even if they join EU soon.

    Russia won't stop though. If they lie and agree to cease fire but continue what would the West truly do?

    Our map in the region has changed drastically. Ukraine is enormous by Slavic standards. At some point I would abandon some land in exchange for peace & rebuilding. Who truly has Ukrainians back beyond sending resources. They aren't the first or last in this position.

    > I don't think the average Russian buys into the Nazi Ukranian mantra but do believe this is them vs West
    You're a kneeler for a man who wears high heels.

  21. #27796
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    You're a kneeler for a man who wears high heels.
    As long as they are European fashion.

  22. #27797
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    As long as they are European fashion.
    They are for insecure short men.

  23. #27798
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    No one wanted Russia destabilized. Putin basically asked to be destabilized. What is wanted is a Russia that could join the world wide economy while attempting to accept human rights and getting rid of massive corruption that makes it unstable. A Russia that would work with economies not run by tyrants. Imo it is critical that after this war "we" reach some sort of solution Russia AND Ukraine can transition to non state run economies that are also free from massive corruption by wealthy vultures. Have a press that is not executed for criticizing the new states to be. Ukraine is already using this opportunity to rid itself of corruption. But once a vacuum is created, it get filled by what? Russia under Yeltsin got filled by Putin and cronies. This is the toughest ask in the long run imo.

    The destruction of power yields the opportunity to heal a certain way. Ukraine is already underway with the healing imo. Russia has Wagner and corrupt businessmen/vigilantes that Putin is trying to keep happy. I personally much more worried about Russian. They need the right type of assistance with the right type of leaders and I dont know how it gets there. Their history suggests another strongman with cronies.

    Putin asked for this.
    Lets not mistake this with who is the victim afterwards. Recovery is going to require a lot of suffering and still has uncertain outcomes. Both countries do have the geography and mineral wealth to recover. Its going to take unselfish and more democratic leadership. Given history... very tough ask. (repeated for emphasis) imo

  24. #27799
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    So no fk Russia...
    Revealing you do care.
    And I dont want you to stfu? Where have I ever stated this.
    I like you posting because it gives me a foothold into how Trumpsters feel about this war.

    And yes I am just distraught over your posting and full of tears. If this makes you feel fulfilled go with this narrative please
    The more you post the more you reveal. Thats cool with me.
    LMAO You think I'm a Trumper; how cute... TDS is a of a condition PG. Cry Harder!

    Btw if it makes you feel better; Russia!

  25. #27800
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    No one wanted Russia destabilized. Putin basically asked to be destabilized. What is wanted is a Russia that could join the world wide economy while attempting to accept human rights and getting rid of massive corruption that makes it unstable. A Russia that would work with economies not run by tyrants. Imo it is critical that after this war "we" reach some sort of solution Russia AND Ukraine can transition to non state run economies that are also free from massive corruption by wealthy vultures. Have a press that is not executed for criticizing the new states to be. Ukraine is already using this opportunity to rid itself of corruption. But once a vacuum is created, it get filled by what? Russia under Yeltsin got filled by Putin and cronies. This is the toughest ask in the long run imo.

    The destruction of power yields the opportunity to heal a certain way. Ukraine is already underway with the healing imo. Russia has Wagner and corrupt businessmen/vigilantes that Putin is trying to keep happy. I personally much more worried about Russian. They need the right type of assistance with the right type of leaders and I dont know how it gets there. Their history suggests another strongman with cronies.

    Putin asked for this.
    Lets not mistake this with who is the victim afterwards. Recovery is going to require a lot of suffering and still has uncertain outcomes. Both countries do have the geography and mineral wealth to recover. Its going to take unselfish and more democratic leadership. Given history... very tough ask. (repeated for emphasis) imo
    Your opening paragraph elegantly painted why IMO it was a great bait & switch trap. Ultimately Putin stepped in it and continues to drag. But let's not play dumb to the long term intention.

    It is fair to question Putin & Zelenskyy. I.e the rumored amounts he is pocketing. Why would he seek compromise or peace? To return and rebuild Ukraine while being secretly targeted by GBH.

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