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  1. #376
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    Keldon is playing like he needs to show something. And he does. Unfortunately, his frantic attempts to play hero can't be backed up by a skill set that he can go to without being countered. I'm referring to his maniacal drives into the lane when the opponent has stuffed it with defenders. Sure, it looks great when he makes a basket under those cir stances but his TO rate and shooting percentages are illuminating his limitations. I think he needed one of our guards to come bail him out when he was covered up by Boban at the end. He simply wasn't skilled enough to get that pass in and Young probably would have been a better option.

    Meanwhile, where do you play a player who is a "tweener" without a natural position and without special skills to overcome the liabilities he has physically (size) and shooting.

  2. #377
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I'll have to look into their methodology. It has the best players at the top so it doesn't automatically fail.

    The list says Keldon Johnson is the 8th worst player in the league right now, though. I don't think I buy that.

    I know it's early in the season, maybe I'll check on this stat again in another month or so.
    Keldon really is overrated or, he's played out of position and needs a PF who can rebound and defrnd, but then again his lack of shooting makes his fit as a SF not good. Ideally he's not a 30 mpg player while he's shooting so poorly. That's as he is right now, he could improve but for now...

    I think Vassell is better and should be starting.

  3. #378
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Keldon is playing like he needs to show something. And he does. Unfortunately, his frantic attempts to play hero can't be backed up by a skill set that he can go to without being countered. I'm referring to his maniacal drives into the lane when the opponent has stuffed it with defenders. Sure, it looks great when he makes a basket under those cir stances but his TO rate and shooting percentages are illuminating his limitations. I think he needed one of our guards to come bail him out when he was covered up by Boban at the end. He simply wasn't skilled enough to get that pass in and Young probably would have been a better option.

    Meanwhile, where do you play a player who is a "tweener" without a natural position and without special skills to overcome the liabilities he has physically (size) and shooting.
    I agree Young is a better passer. All I can think of is maybe Pop wanted this to be a teaching moment but I am not sure.

  4. #379
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    Keldon really is overrated or, he's played out of position and needs a PF who can rebound and defrnd, but then again his lack of shooting makes his fit as a SF not good. Ideally he's not a 30 mpg player while he's shooting so poorly. That's as he is right now, he could improve but for now...
    Yeah, his three point shot has really just....fallen off the cliff this year.

    He always had an awkward form where he kinda shot-puts it with a huge arc. Similar to Bonner's, but less aesthetic if that makes sense.

    Sure, it looks great when it goes in, but other times its not even close. That is not the sign of a consistent shooter.

    He is shooting an abysmal 14.3% on 2.6 attempts this season after shooting 33.1% last year....so hopefully the tide will turn. Otherwise, that hurts his value significantly....he can't just barrel into the basket for all of his points.

  5. #380
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Yeah, his three point shot has really just....fallen off the cliff this year.

    He always had an awkward form where he kinda shot-puts it with a huge arc. Similar to Bonner's, but less aesthetic if that makes sense.

    Sure, it looks great when it goes in, but other times its not even close. That is not the sign of a consistent shooter.

    He is shooting an abysmal 14.3% on 2.6 attempts this season after shooting 33.1% last year....so hopefully the tide will turn. Otherwise, that hurts his value significantly....he can't just barrel into the basket for all of his points.

    To be honest, none of the young core guys have shown any significant growth as 3 pt shooters. White and Dejounte have been up and down without any permanent leaps forward, and Walker and Johnson have seemingly regressed. That's why I always roll my eyes at the all-too-frequent assessment during the pre draft period that players with poor shooting can easily be fixed by a few months in the gym with Chip... it's rarely that easy.

  6. #381
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I'll have to look into their methodology. It has the best players at the top so it doesn't automatically fail.

    The list says Keldon Johnson is the 8th worst player in the league right now, though. I don't think I buy that.

    I know it's early in the season, maybe I'll check on this stat again in another month or so.
    My memory of TPA is that it's an aggregate version of BPM but with less nuance than, say, VORP. I haven't found it very useful. I don't want to create the perception that I don't like it because Murray ranks highly in it, as DJM is ranking well in other stats too. I just think it's someone taking a stat and transforming it in ways it specifically wasn't meant to be used. Basically if BPM is going to be transformed, it should be per game played and not aggregate to reduce the "win more" effect. It also creates situations where high-impact guys who play fewer minutes are considered to be less effective than lower-impact players who play a ton of minutes. That stat could provide some context but is easily misleading if used in most contexts.

  7. #382
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    To be honest, none of the young core guys have shown any significant growth as 3 pt shooters. White and Dejounte have been up and down without any permanent leaps forward, and Walker and Johnson have seemingly regressed. That's why I always roll my eyes at the all-too-frequent assessment during the pre draft period that players with poor shooting can easily be fixed by a few months in the gym with Chip... it's rarely that easy.
    Yeah...I hate to say it, but Chip may have lost his touch with this young crew. The last success story he had was Kawhi, but Kawhi came in with decent form and is frankly a freak of nature sometimes.

    Based on the way we have started off shooting from both the free-throw line and the three-point line...I'd have to imagine the shooting coach seat is starting to feel a little warm.

  8. #383
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    I agree Young is a better passer. All I can think of is maybe Pop wanted this to be a teaching moment but I am not sure.

    Of the group on the floor - Murray, White, Walker, Vassell, and Keldon - Keldon probably got the assignment, to inbound the ball, because he's the weakest shooter, out of that group.

    Also, the reason Keldon was out there at all was apparently because Pop wanted him to be the ersatz center in that madly small lineup.

    It was nuts. Suddenly deciding that Keldon is the center, very late in a close game, is a move that could be called, um, "eccentric." Or call it just plain bat flapping crazy.

    Pop is a good strategist. There have even been times, now and then, when his overall game plans have been brilliant.

    But he's a poor tactician. He's poor at designing individual plays, and not good at reacting to individual situations. Especially, his inbound plays have been seen to fail spectacularly, a lot more than once.

    The player you would want, in a situation like that, would be one with a proven ability to make a good bounce pass. Throw over Boban?? Lotsa luck. You need to borrow the Coyote's T-shirt cannon to throw over Boban. So you do a quick fake of a high pass then do a bounce pass under him, is the best bet. Either White or Murray should have been doing the inbounds, because they're the best at a bounce pass, as far as I know.

    And if Pop wanted shooters on the floor, but not Young or Eubanks, he could have used Landale, an actual center, instead of Keldon. The thought of that never crossed Pop's mind, I am sure.

  9. #384
    Believe.
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    So disappointed in Lonnie. What contract does he expect to earn with this kind of play? It’s like he’s unmasked himself as the true IG baller with all his talk and workout videos on social media and nothing to show for it.
    Ive been saying it for over 2 years when most people wanted to trade DJ and make lonnie the Start. I was constant on saying DJ was better. rarely did I talk bad about Walker as I like to see all of our players succeed but there are a few times where I said he should eb traded..

  10. #385
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I'll have to look into their methodology. It has the best players at the top so it doesn't automatically fail.

    The list says Keldon Johnson is the 8th worst player in the league right now, though. I don't think I buy that.

    I know it's early in the season, maybe I'll check on this stat again in another month or so.
    I like Keldon as much as the next guy but I can agree that his level of play has been underwhelming and will go as far as saying he’s been one of the worst players in the league. I believe he’s out there still learning the ropes so to me, he’s not entirely hopeless. With that said, even if he never turns into a great player, I will still be a big fan because of how much he’s embraced the city, does things around the community, and proudly represents the team.

  11. #386
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I like Keldon as much as the next guy but I can agree that his level of play has been underwhelming and will go as far as saying he’s been one of the worst players in the league. I believe he’s out there still learning the ropes so to me, he’s not entirely hopeless. With that said, even if he never turns into a great player, I will still be a big fan because of how much he’s embraced the city, does things around the community, and proudly represents the team.
    just because he's not looking like he'll "have a primary scoring role" or be a very good starter, at the very least he'd be a very good energy bench player who can get some buckets and hustle on defense and the boards

    cant close the book yet, but his ability to survive as a starter is contingent on him being an acceptable 3 point shooter. dejounte to his credit has done that. he's not a "good" 3 point shooter, but he's serviceable enough. keldon has to get at least to that point

  12. #387
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    just because he's not looking like he'll "have a primary scoring role" or be a very good starter, at the very least he'd be a very good energy bench player who can get some buckets and hustle on defense and the boards

    cant close the book yet, but his ability to survive as a starter is contingent on him being an acceptable 3 point shooter. dejounte to his credit has done that. he's not a "good" 3 point shooter, but he's serviceable enough. keldon has to get at least to that point
    Nah, not even a good bench player. One of the worst in the league tbh

    the changes that need to happen are both KBD and Vassell starting over White and Keldon. I can understand continuing to start Keldon for developmental purposes, but excuses are going to run out soon for White starting over Vassell. That’s a bigger travesty than Forbes getting minutes over anyone. And that has nothing to do with Vassell being a better individual player than White… if he is or isn’t— I don’t care. Advanced metrics so far are showing that Vassell works better with most of the core players getting minutes.
    Last edited by Dejounte; 11-05-2021 at 07:23 AM.

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