Poeltl has made plenty of strides this year and possibly the most important Spur right now, but only because we don’t have anybody else better? But an all-star, he’s not. I’m probably one of his bigger critics, but he also got plenty of praises from me this season. I don’t even mind the dunks anymore, but for Pete’s sake, it’s a lob city out there, and I mean for the opposing bigs. I agree Poeltl doesn’t have enough dog in him, and he occasionally needs to get his behind lit. And I agree, that’s the reason why many are intrigued with Drew because he doesn’t have a fraction of Poeltl’s skills but he has twice the motor.
Tre is a 42nd pick in his 2nd year. Give the guy a break. But he has the best PG skills that we have, including Derrick imo. And he’s not afraid to attack the rim and get fouled either. He’s a very good lockdown defender I don’t doubt he will be a better shooter. Nope I don’t have qualms with Tre.
I'm just busting chops. Obviously he can't help his size, but dude has actually been a pleasant surprise given his draft position. I'm glad to see him getting decent minutes to contribute, especially over Forbes (despite his explosion against GSW)
He may just be able to carve out a space in the NBA, whether with us or another team....but agreed he just needs to develop that outside jumper.
Great point, I agree. We're living in the sweet spot for best possible outcome this season. tanking stealth with a point diff that doesn't suggest it. Getting a solid core going to drop a possibly 7-10 pick level talent into next year. Secure Pop's record to garner the media fluff. Maybe get DJ some awards or nods.
Spurs still have a lot to work on but I just feel like it's a sexy tank and doesn't feel like a quagmire for how poor of contenders we are this year.
I wonder if PATFO see a draft pick they like and it's not a top 5 projection. As soon as the college season provided data, Spurs suddenly hit the stride like someone said we don't need as high of a pick as we first thought, win more games. Chet was too thin lol.
If Spurs see a guy in the 10-12 range that could be a nice fit instead of a top fiver, it opens some flexibility and they could tank a bit more compe ively and still pull a heist in the draft too. Best tank ever. EDIT: Maybe even get some play in / playoff exp for the young guys.
But we have a ton of optimism. This team has a few gems already, with a full season of young guy focus and no ballhogs might expedite development, plus Primo will be another year less green, drop a 7-10 range pick into that, tailor picked for a good fit, could start to pull out of this nose dive.
Last edited by heyheymymy; 12-07-2021 at 11:18 AM.
I like Tre. He pushes the tempo everytime. And you know the team is in correct flow when he’s in. I would say he’s like Avery Johnson-like as a General, with his high bball IQ, but could even be better because Tre has the burst of speed like TP, and deceptive athleticsm to attack the rim. You know once he’s start sinking his shots, and I don’t doubt he would, Tre would be a steal of that draft.
He may just be able to carve out a space in the NBA, whether with us or another team....but agreed he just needs to develop that outside jumper.
I'm also wondering if it's not a bit of CIA Thad right now with the poor performances these past few games.
Is there a possibility that Thad is intentionally throwing his games to warn off some lesser "in the hunt" teams from getting interested and putting together a trade package so that he can secure a buy out instead and pick his contender in a city that his wife won't apparently complain about?
Is that even possible? I'm not the best with NBA contracts rules stuff. Point me in the right direction. Cause Thad threw a wounded duck last night from three that made me nauseous it was so bad lol. No way that's genuine lol the ball almost got wedged between the back iron and the glass!
Tre reminds me of Cojo, def has the magic but not able to put it all together and carve a role
Jakob is a very polarizing player, and has a lot of "haters" in ST, who certainly don't think he's worthy of a starting role because he's not jacking up 5 threes a game or driving to the rim on every play. As you say, he's playing at a bordeline All-Star this season, but even then it's not enough. It will probably never be, since anything less than Timmy from the C position is insufficient.
I can't complain too much, I have my own hangups as well, but it's certainly funny to read and a stupid take
this version of poeltl is an awesome starting center in today's NBA. but he's basically been a top 2 player, which shouldn't be the case on a good team.
Exactly
ing predictable. And they say the Spurs fanbase ain't spoiled...
Bull post, lol.
His "lack of offense" (meaning lack of scoring specifically, since he's elite in many aspects of offense, including screen setting, PnR action) doesn't nearly hurt the Spurs as much as you say, otherwise his advanced stats would be neutral or in the negatives, like players who actually only play one side of the court (DeRozan, Forbes, et al).
Defenses don't care about the push shot until he makes two of them in a row, then they adjust, you could see it if you watched the game closer. In the same vein, what's the problem with the opposing big dropping in a PnR with Jakob? That's how a drop coverage works. If you say you can't play the PnP with him, that's a different argument, but then again, neither can you with Gobert.
He isn't a lob threat because he has bad hands, but especially because the Spurs as a team don't attempt lobs, another thing you weirdly single out Jakob for just to on him. Eubanks can catch a lob, yet never does. All of Keldon, Murray, Lonnie, Vassell, Primo even, can throw down a dunk off an alley-oop, yet never do. You know why? It's not because they all have bad hands... It's because we have no players able or willing to throw those lobs in the first place (or maybe Pop doesn't allow it? No way to know). It takes two to tango, and two to alley-oop, and we clearly are lacking the CP3 to our Blake Griffin for "Lob City" to happen. But ok....
Bull on Collins' 3 making him as valuable as Jakob
You might wanna think things through instead of blindly bashing players without understanding their role and contributions to the team, tbh.
That was coldblooded editing of my post lol.Exactly
ing predictable. And they say the Spurs fanbase ain't spoiled...
Honestly, I'd take Javale over Poeltl. Or any center that has not only talent like Jakob, but a bit of dog in him like Vassell and Murray and Tre, and others have. I just want some nasty that coach pop always asks for.
This stat alone (23rd PER amongst centers) chuckles that you think it's a stupid take or that you think he's doing anything that would warrant an all star level nod.Jakob is a very polarizing player, and has a lot of "haters" in ST, who certainly don't think he's worthy of a starting role because he's not jacking up 5 threes a game or driving to the rim on every play. As you say, he's playing at a bordeline All-Star this season, but even then it's not enough. It will probably never be, since anything less than Timmy from the C position is insufficient.
I can't complain too much, I have my own hangups as well, but it's certainly funny to read and a stupid take
Ah yes, a single stat automatically determines players' deservingness of All-Star nods. Why even vote then, didn't anyone tell Adam Silver how easy to determine it was?!
I didn't say he was All-Star, he's borderline so, and I perfectly know he'll likely never be selected, both because he plays for the Spurs, a team ignored even when they're winning, and even moreso when losing; and because he's a defense-first player, in an offense-first league. Worse centers with more glamorous game will always be ahead of him in voting, especially given it's a vote decided by media, and even stupid fans.
I was gonna answer another comment with this, but here you go:
FG% FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS .621 .323 5.2 6.4 11.6 2.7 0.7 0.7 1.9 15.2 .661 .653 4.1 9.5 13.6 1.3 0.6 2.8 1.9 14.9
These are PER 36 stats from both Jakob this season, and Gobert's 2016-17 season, which warranted him not an All-Star spot, but an All-NBA one (again, offensive bias is clear here in AS selections). Can you tell me which belongs to whom? Though I guess, Jakob's FT% will give it up... He's gotta get better there, for sure. But none of the other stats are as far away as you seem to imply they are. So what is it? Was Gobert undeserving of his All-NBA selection, or is Jakob doing better than you'd care to admit? Oh, but the PER....!
He's not a very bright player on either side of the court. The more I see of him, the less I want him on the floor at the end of games, much less starting.
For the record, I don’t think Jakob is near All-Star level. I just think it’s shallow as to critique his game just because he doesn’t act like an animal on offense. There’s always a fine line that Jakob must tread when it comes to aggressiveness. His value on the court is immense that if he starts acting aggressive, he might pick up even more ticky tack fouls. Refs already call dumbass fouls on him on defense. There’s two sides to every coin and just because Jakob doesn’t meet one standard, doesn’t mean he’s easily replaceable by JaVale ing McGee… a guy who is pretty much Eubanks but better. Guys like Eubanks and all their “nasty” is not enough for a starting C even if Eubanks was good. The lack of defensive principles shared by guys like that becomes a glaring hole on defense. You can easily solve the Jakob “lack-of-dog” issue by finding him a better backup. This way, it would be extremely difficult to find any flaws in the center rotation because you can just easily sub him out if Jakob is being soft (which is being over exaggerated by many).
replying to post about Tre Jones and lots of NBA players who were in the "if they could only shoot" status: Yeah, but most of them weren't dwarfs.Actually, I kinda like the crafty way he often moves down among the big boys in the paint, but I don't see a Tony Parker in him. I don't ever remember Partker getting his jumper blocked like that. Too predictable???
Last edited by wildbill2u; 12-07-2021 at 01:15 PM.
This pretty much.... He's a really good player but he should be the 4th or 5th best player... and he's paid like that (maybe even paid less than that)... it's not his fault.hes the 2nd best player on this team... it's up to the FO to put 4 better players around him... the high level of criticism towards Jak just isn't warranted....
1. Gobert has always been overrated, as a complete player yes. But his defense is many magnitudes better than Jakob which is about the only thing Jakob can champion about his game. Gobert is also a much more skilled shooter and less of a liability when given the ball with no flow to the offense. Jakob goes full deer in headlights mode.
2. The biggest difference, and the PRIMARY reason Gobert got the nod are the nearly 3 blocks per game which are very close to all-time defensive NBA numbers.
3. And Jakob's FT% is more than just bad, it's abominable.
4. I don't hate Jakob if you think I do. He's clearly a better all around player this year. His offense and defense are better than last year which is all you can ask out of your players...other than to show some nasty. And he just, uh, never does.
5. To me, he's a career back up on a championship level team. Or a starter on a mediocre team. Even with his sub-par offensive game, he could change minds on that (like mine) by taking a power dribble from time to time and ing it behind his head for a two hand power jam when the defender is on the other side of the rim and a quick power move would give your shot a higher %age of going in.
Poeltl's excellent rim protection has been very evident this entire season as a whole and it helps our defense get stops when our offense is struggling to find shots.
I don't believe we need him to be much more than what he is offensively. I think of Tiago Splitter and the offense the spurs had with him at the 5. Tiago was as "soft" as they come but surrounded by the right players he worked well. His main thing was defense and passing.
Poeltl has shown some decent passing skills and has improved the pick and roll quite a bit. I think it just depends on what the spurs surround him with. But he can be, in my eyes, a legit starting center on a championship contender. No doubt.
I didn't know Jakob posted on spurstalkBull post, lol.
His "lack of offense" (meaning lack of scoring specifically, since he's elite in many aspects of offense, including screen setting, PnR action) doesn't nearly hurt the Spurs as much as you say, otherwise his advanced stats would be neutral or in the negatives, like players who actually only play one side of the court (DeRozan, Forbes, et al).
Defenses don't care about the push shot until he makes two of them in a row, then they adjust, you could see it if you watched the game closer. In the same vein, what's the problem with the opposing big dropping in a PnR with Jakob? That's how a drop coverage works
He isn't a lob threat because he has bad hands, but especially because the Spurs as a team don't attempt lobs, another thing you weirdly single out Jakob for just to on him. Eubanks can catch a lob, yet never does. All of Keldon, Murray, Lonnie, Vassell, Primo even, can throw down a dunk off an alley-oop, yet never do. You know why? It's not because they all have bad hands... It's because we have no players able or willing to throw those lobs in the first place (or maybe Pop doesn't allow it? No way to know). It takes two to tango, and two to alley-oop, and we clearly are lacking the CP3 to our Blake Griffin for "Lob City" to happen. But ok....
Bull on Collins' 3 making him as valuable as Jakob
You might wanna think things through instead of blindly bashing players without understanding their role and contributions to the team, tbh.
If you don't understand the issue with playing a big man who doesn't dunk or shoot jumpshots or shoot 3's then you don't understand modern basketball
Pop and the announcers are always on Poeltl about not dunking but your excuse is that nobody throws it to him and "pop doesn't allow lobs"
If we swapped out Poeltl for even Javale this team would be better overall.
When was the last time Poeltl dominated the offensive glass and scored like Javale did in the 1st quarter last night ? Oh yeah that's right... ing never
You know you're backed into a corner when you resort to hyperbolic statements without anything to back them up. I was expecting a more coherent discussion, but alas....I didn't know Jakob posted on spurstalk
If you don't understand the issue with playing a big man who doesn't dunk or shoot jumpshots or shoot 3's then you don't understand modern basketball
Pop and the announcers are always on Poeltl about not dunking but your excuse is that nobody throws it to him and "pop doesn't allow lobs"
If we swapped out Poeltl for even Javale this team would be better overall.
When was the last time Poeltl dominated the offensive glass and scored like Javale did in the 1st quarter last night ? Oh yeah that's right... ing never
If you really think swapping Jakob and starting Javale ing McGee on a team in 2021, and have that team be better on both ends, you're simply delusional. He hasn't been better than Jakob on either end, and is a complete turnstile. He has a couple big dunks a game (which deludes fools like you) but is abysmal otherwise most of the time.
I didn't say I don't want Jakob dunking (nice twisting of words), I said he's present and active on the offensive end, even if he's doing things you don't value; these things are clearly valuable, as they show on impact stats, and the overall play of the team when Jakob is out, of which we have a really recent sample size to gauge at. You really think we'd be beating the Warriors and hanging until the final seconds against the Suns with Mc- ing-Gee?
Anyways, haters be haters I guess, no time worse wasted than teaching a fool who's content with staying so.
Jakob is better, coming off the bench... he, Steven adams, Clint capella, rudy gobert...
It's very funny seeing posters twist the argument more and more as the posts go on, just to throw at Jakob.
First it was he's not even starting calibre and overpaid. Then, he's overpaid, but a solid backup that can start occasionally. Then, good enough to start, but nowhere near AS level (which is kind of where we're at right now). We'll see where the goalpost keeps moving towards... But I'm the first to say Jakob will never get an AS selection, simply because of the way the AS is selected and the offensive bias of the league. It literally took Gobert winning 2 DPOY in a row, and multiple All-NBA teams, to get his first AS nod.
Agree with the rest of your post, obviously. Instead of magically expecting Jakob to be a different player, the Spurs should focus on finding a complementary backup C. I thought the Dieng signing was great because of that, a stretch 5 with some physicality, but that didn't work out. Eubanks obviously isn't cutting it either. We'll see what the Spurs do, but I don't trust them too much on this front, for some reason.
Imagine suggesting Rudy Gobert and Clint Capela gotta come off the bench, just to demote Jakob
Y'all really grasping at straws now. The 3pt revolution has turned people's brains to mashed potatoes, it's incredible how far the pendulum's swung. A shooting C isn't the be-all, end-all of roster building, and traditional centers absolutely still have a place in the league, a starting place. Lol.
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