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He’s not going to get taller which is fine but he’s going to get stronger and more explosive that’s a fact. He’s no where close to his physical prime and has yet to grow into his man body.
The kid is 19, he‘ll be fine
He’s not going to get taller which is fine but he’s going to get stronger and more explosive that’s a fact. He’s no where close to his physical prime and has yet to grow into his man body.
Love that he showed some emotion last night on that dunk he got fouled on. Kid’s gonna be a fine player imo. He definitely needs a lot of developing, but I think that’ll come with time. Just gotta be patient, like you do with 95% of young players.
Next season will be telling. I expect his numbers to take a significant leap. If they don’t, then I’ll start to worry.
Lol, how can you know with any certainty the points he'll be able to get or not by half a rookie season's worth of playing? This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. You literally just don't know. Yes, there's players who show elite burst coming out of college, but that's not every case, and doesn't have to be Primo's. There's a lot of ways to get points at the rim (silly comparison I know, but Shaq wasn't exactly known for his first step), and to flat out cross Primo off of getting points at the rim, especially given his growing size, is silly, IMO. We'll have to disagree there, honestly.
A rookie ballhandler is very turnover-prone, you say?! Color me shocked! Now you're gonna tell me his shooting isn't all there yet...!
Why do you think Primo's improving handle could only buy him space "laterally", and not towards the rim? Have you never seen a player get by the defense with nifty dribbling moves? Isolation, anyone? Lmao. Especially with the lax handling rules in today's game, it's easier than ever to leverage good-to-great dribbling skills into leaving defenders in the dust (or baiting them into fouls, for example, something that would also earn Primo those "easy points" that you see so impossible). Again, we don't know if Primo will develop these handles, another reason it's simply stupid to rule him out of that yet.
So wait, you rule out his "high end" (whatever on Earth that means), yet still think he could top out as a best scoring option on a team with an improved shot? What's the "high end" then? MJ-like player?. It looks to me like you're covering all your bases so as to avoid any "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Again -- IF Primo can develop into a top scoring option, it'll necessarily have meant that he'll have found ways to leverage both his athleticism, and his shooting, into positive and productive scoring, which is contrarian to what you're saying. A player who has the ceiling of a "top scoring option" simply has no ceiling. Scoring is basketball (boy oh boy am I not waiting for the "sCoRiNg iSnT eVeRyThInG" retort...).
...Yes? Lmao. Yes. Most players do, actually, lmfao. You're a kid at 19, both mentally and body-wise. While you're probably not going to get lighter as you age, the average athlete will improve his muscle mass, lower his fat %, improve his coordination, skill, and fluidity, as they age and approach their prime, all of which lend to increased speed. To name just one easy example, do you think Usain Bolt topped out his speed at 19? Or did he continue to train for years on end, and broke his own records time and time again, well into his 20s? What a stupid argument to make.
[I'm using Bolt because I like him and know his career, and in case you don't know, he broke his own speed records multiple times in consecutive, 4-years-apart Olympic games, directly refuting your argument, and I'm using a speeder because they actually measure how fast they go, as opposed to basketball's very relative and non-measured "speed" marks; not because there's no cases in basketball, it just doesn't get any clearer than Bolt.]
So players who don't cross up others as rookies, can never develop that skill? Interesting. I used Harden not because his skill wasn't obvious, but because he's a great example of a player who was widely considered to have a ceiling, and then went on to mature and beat literally everyone's expectations of what his "ceiling" was. Yes, he was great while on OKC and net them a good haul, but nobody thought he'd be much more than a good-to-great starter player when given a great role; nobody predicted he'd be a MVP-level, dominant, generational scoring machine, and again, a big part of that was due to his "athletic deficiencies". He's a great case of why you don't have to be the fastest, highest-jumping, best athlete on the court to succeed. He scored far more points than Booker ever will, with half the "first step" speed than Booker has. And that's just one example.
The point stands... Putting ceilings on rookies is simply stupid. As my guy Dejounte succintly points out, you can look no further than our very own Dejounte for another great example of this. I'm sure you were calling him an All-Star level player during his rookie year, right? ...Right?
DJ was straight trash his second year. Keldon took a step back from his bubble numbers his second year. Devin is OK, but hasn’t lit the world on fire in year 2.
Year 3 is where it normally falls into place.
I am giving him a pass for whatever way he plays this season. He’s very young and Pop would have had him on Gleague all year and he would have had to earn his minutes next season like many others b4 him, if the Spurs were a better team.
However, I did expect him to shoot better. That’s been a surprising disappointment bc it was the one thing he had shown potential to do. He had a sniper’s/shooter’s mentality.
It changes a lot my hopes for him if he doesn’t develop as a shooter. He’s too young to say that’s irredimible and something may be going one like him getting used to faster close outs and having to adjust … maybe even the speed of his shot or something I know nothing about.
I do hope his good shooting % make a come back next season.
i think this above is a good observation. He should study James Harden because he looks like if he hits the gym even more he will get pretty big. So trying to use his strength and smarts will be the best shot to become a really good driver.
I believe one reason for the drop in shooting was that he came in with a form that was conducive to injury.
While he was making shots, he would come down on one leg, not both. He even hurt himself early in the year because of that.
So the rest of the year he's been changing his form to land on both feet so he has been adjusting in-season, thus affecting his percentage.
Hopefully with a full off-season working on that he comes in next year more comfortable.
He had a terrible launch/landing on his jump shot to the point where he injured himself on one of his one footed landings. Tearing that down and rebuilding it isn’t easily done during the season. I was encouraged that he hit two treys last night.
Ya gotta wonder why he keeps passing up wide-open threes (a few last night) if his primary claim to fame as a high draftee was supposed to be his shooting. Granted his form is gonna be a work in progress, but it really shouldn't keep him from trying in such a big blowout. He's not worth being on the floor if he won't give it a shot.
It's great to see the return of SA Girl to SpursTalk. Methinks she has found another player to root for. Kyle 2.0????
He took 6 in 31 minutes. How many do you want him to take?Ya gotta wonder why he keeps passing up wide-open threes (a few last night) if his primary claim to fame as a high draftee was supposed to be his shooting. Granted his form is gonna be a work in progress, but it really shouldn't keep him from trying in such a big blowout. He's not worth being on the floor if he won't give it a shot.
Nah I’ve been a casual for most of the Derozan years. The team is starting to get interesting is all. I truly just think this dude is too young to criticize too harshly at this point. I should clarify I don’t have star expectations for him like others. I’ve actually noticed a few things I like about him but they are overshadowed at this point by the disappointment created by a bad shooting season. We’ll see. Has to work on that shot this summer.
Primo was a reach. So far he has not done anything to disprove that. All you can do is wait and hope.
To start with your point on DJ, I was one of the folks on this board that believed in his upside, actually. Most people dogged him about his shot and handles pretty relentlessly. I didn't. Why? Because those are things a young player can improve upon. Doesn't always happen, but a guy like DJ has a work ethic that makes it more likely than not. We have a coaching staff known for developing players, ESPECIALLY shooting. So I had little doubt he'd find a shot. And most likely his handle. And I loved his burst which was evident from the get-go. Put that all together, and you'll find I was one of the few people on this board not wanting to trade DJ... at any point.Lol, how can you know with any certainty the points he'll be able to get or not by half a rookie season's worth of playing? This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. You literally just don't know. Yes, there's players who show elite burst coming out of college, but that's not every case, and doesn't have to be Primo's. There's a lot of ways to get points at the rim (silly comparison I know, but Shaq wasn't exactly known for his first step), and to flat out cross Primo off of getting points at the rim, especially given his growing size, is silly, IMO. We'll have to disagree there, honestly.
A rookie ballhandler is very turnover-prone, you say?! Color me shocked! Now you're gonna tell me his shooting isn't all there yet...!
Why do you think Primo's improving handle could only buy him space "laterally", and not towards the rim? Have you never seen a player get by the defense with nifty dribbling moves? Isolation, anyone? Lmao. Especially with the lax handling rules in today's game, it's easier than ever to leverage good-to-great dribbling skills into leaving defenders in the dust (or baiting them into fouls, for example, something that would also earn Primo those "easy points" that you see so impossible). Again, we don't know if Primo will develop these handles, another reason it's simply stupid to rule him out of that yet.
So wait, you rule out his "high end" (whatever on Earth that means), yet still think he could top out as a best scoring option on a team with an improved shot? What's the "high end" then? MJ-like player?
...Yes? Lmao. Yes. Most players do, actually, lmfao. You're a kid at 19, both mentally and body-wise. While you're probably not going to get lighter as you age, the average athlete will improve his muscle mass, lower his fat %, improve his coordination, skill, and fluidity, as they age and approach their prime, all of which lend to increased speed. To name just one easy example, do you think Usain Bolt topped out his speed at 19? Or did he continue to train for years on end, and broke his own records time and time again, well into his 20s? What a stupid argument to make.
[I'm using Bolt because I like him and know his career, and in case you don't know, he broke his own speed records multiple times in consecutive, 4-years-apart Olympic games, directly refuting your argument, and I'm using a speeder because they actually measure how fast they go, as opposed to basketball's very relative and non-measured "speed" marks; not because there's no cases in basketball, it just doesn't get any clearer than Bolt.]
So players who don't cross up others as rookies, can never develop that skill? Interesting. I used Harden not because his skill wasn't obvious, but because he's a great example of a player who was widely considered to have a ceiling, and then went on to mature and beat literally everyone's expectations of what his "ceiling" was. Yes, he was great while on OKC and net them a good haul, but nobody thought he'd be much more than a good-to-great starter player when given a great role; nobody predicted he'd be a MVP-level, dominant, generational scoring machine, and again, a big part of that was due to his "athletic deficiencies". He's a great case of why you don't have to be the fastest, highest-jumping, best athlete on the court to succeed. He scored far more points than Booker ever will, with half the "first step" speed than Booker has. And that's just one example.
The point stands... Putting ceilings on rookies is simply stupid. As my guy Dejounte succintly points out, you can look no further than our very own Dejounte for another great example of this. I'm sure you were calling him an All-Star level player during his rookie year, right? ...Right?
I flatly reject your point on Harden. By the time of his trade to Houston, it was known Houston was getting a potential superstar. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. And his handles are in fact generational which is more than you can ask of Primo just so he can get 8 easy points per game.
As for 'Harden scoring more than Booker ever will,' Booker just became the 7th youngest player to reach 10,000 pts. He dropped 70 in his 2nd year. And 60 two other times, already. And he has averaged at least 22 or more since his second season.
Were I you, I'd slow down your prediction on that.
And one final point, I have to chuckle because you pulled out the world's fastest man from anentirely different sport, measured in hundredths of seconds, to make a point about Primo gaining quickness?? lmao. Dude was already elite with fast twitch muscle. And he trained everyday to enhance that by 0.08 hundredths. Merely adding muscle and weight doesn't make you quick. That's normally something you're born with. Josh might improve in that area very modestly over the next several years, but he'll never be a guy that gets confused with having quickness.
So yes, I'm ruling out his high end. Not sure why that's confusing. And no that doesn't mean he couldn't be a sub All-star level player. Back to DJ for a comparison. DJ basically lost 2 years (1 on the court and 1 bounce back year following the torn ACL). And he's not an efficient 3 pt shooter. But he's averaging 21 ppg, but also 8.5 boards and 9.5 assists per game. And it took like several injuries plus campaigning from several of his fellow NBA veterans to get him selected by the commissioner as a replacement.
I don't see Josh ever routinely putting up triple dubs for us. I don't see him ever being someone that can get easy points routinely at the rim. So that means he's gonna have to start raining 3s at a very proficient level, like Steph. Is that possible? Sure. Likely? Far from it. So I think his top end is around 21 ppg. Certainly enough to maybe be the top scorer in any given year, but unless paired with near double digit rebound and assist numbers, not all star level.
That's me limiting his high end. Using logic.
In order to reach an All-Star around here, he'll need to get easy points. And average damn near 25 ppg. Maybe more.
And he simply doesn't appear to have displayed any of the quickness one would need to achieve that. Sorry if my opinion about our rookie upsets you.
Disagree all you want. But try to show me an example in the NBA instead of the world of track and field to show me hope for him developing that skill.
Trip doubs are highly overrated. The king of TDs is one of the least efficient players in the league, and has been exposed this year with lower usage.
Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but DJs TDs have tailed off as the Spurs started winning more. Not a coincidence.
I have noticed. But let's not be naive here. Were it not for those triple doubles, it's even less likely DJ is selected to be an All-Star. His scoring alone was not sufficient, Even with his league leading steals to get him selected after the first round of injuries by the Allstar coaches. He had to get picked by the commish after even more injuries and lobbying by several former and current players. And he deserved it, btw.
Westbrook's career has kind of shown how the novelty of triple doubles without context has worn off. The first time he average a triple double for a season, he won MVP. The second time he did it, he finished 5th in MVP voting. The third time he finished 10th and the fourth time 11th. Another interesting fact: every year Westbrook averaged a TD, his team lost in the first round of the playoffs, with a combined 4 year playoff record of 5-16. Big inefficient numbers with sky high usage rate plus taking off a half dozen defensive trips every game to argue with refs doesn't make for a championship winning formula.
DJ was on the all defensive team his second year. I consider that far from trash. He has improved a lot since then but you do undervalue what DJ has done.
KJ did take a step back from the bubble but I dont think any player is going to shoot 60% from 3 for a season in the near future. very few even shoot 60% from 2 each season. I think he did not play that bad for a second year player.
I think we should start to see some type of improvement from Josh next year. year 3 may be where most of them start to break out but that I would say is more because the spurs dont play them much the first year.
This.
DJs TDs OTOH are completely different from Westchucks.
DJ does not fight with teamates over a rebound nor pout and scowl at them if they get a rebound he could have padded.
DJs shots are often because no one else wants to shoot. Westchucks OTOH
Which is not to say Westchuck has not had some very impressive assists. I like watching him when he is in assist mode vs Kobme Chucker.
this tbh. Steven Adams was deliberately missing free throws so Westbrick could get his 10th rebound. Westbrick was passing the ball out to his team mates then yelled at them why they didn't take the shot so he can get an assist. The stat padding was in full effect.This.
DJs TDs OTOH are completely different from Westchucks.
DJ does not fight with teamates over a rebound nor pout and scowl at them if they get a rebound he could have padded.
DJs shots are often because no one else wants to shoot. Westchucks OTOH
Which is not to say Westchuck has not had some very impressive assists. I like watching him when he is in assist mode vs Kobme Chucker.
Not to mention he'd keep playing late into 4th quarters of blowout wins & losses to secure the the td.
Westbrook would suck even if he wasn’t getting triple doubles, arguably. Not playing defense. Putting zero effort into playing offball. Horrible shot selection. None of that is helpful to winning.
People should go back to Game 6 in 2014. On the last posession he chucks a contested 3 and hits the top of the backboard. He was always that dumb of a player. Probably the dumbest in NBA history
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