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  1. #1
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    They're looking mighty vulnerable right now. To lose to an 8 seed in a seven-game series was bad enough... could the Suns actually lose to a ing 10 seed?

  2. #2
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Could happen since Booker sounds like he's out for Games 3 & 4. Would ing blow because this year's Suns are a ridiculously good team, but obviously not without their best player.

  3. #3
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Could happen since Booker sounds like he's out for Games 3 & 4. Would ing blow because this year's Suns are a ridiculously good team, but obviously not without their best player.
    IIRC the Mavs were completely healthy but muh Josh Howard was a bit hobbling. Mostly they lost because Dogface " muh MVP" Derp choked on a fat one and Avery Johnson was a dumb preaching Mark Jackson-lite nig nog who refused to play with tempo against at the time the fastest pace team in the league, even more fast paced than the Suns at that time.

    The difference between Popovich and Avery Johnson was that Popovich actually played tempo ball against tempo teams, with Manu, TP, Barry etc scoring at will... while AJ was bent on converting Derp Nowinzki into Tim Duncan and playing 1990s four-down halfcourt iso ball every single possession.

  4. #4
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    The 2011 Spurs and 2012 Bulls got eighted but those don't really count because both teams had severe injuries, in the Spurs case the entire big 3 were in and out of the lineup (in Manu's case he severed his arm) and in the Bulls case Derrick Rose tore his ACL at the end of a pretty convincing Game 1 win.

    The 1994 Sonics and 1999 Heat got eighted but those don't really count because they were five-game series.

    There's one and only one glaring red dot on the analytics chart that really stands alone in NBA playoff upset history in infamy.... and that's the 2007 "Rowdy, Proud & Loud!" Dallas Mavericks.

  5. #5
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Avery Johnson was a dumb preaching Mark Jackson-lite nig nog
    Kori Ellis
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  6. #6
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The 2011 Spurs and 2012 Bulls got eighted but those don't really count because both teams had severe injuries, in the Spurs case the entire big 3 were in and out of the lineup (in Manu's case he severed his arm) and in the Bulls case Derrick Rose tore his ACL at the end of a pretty convincing Game 1 win.

    The 1994 Sonics and 1999 Heat got eighted but those don't really count because they were five-game series.

    There's one and only one glaring red dot on the analytics chart that really stands alone in NBA playoff upset history in infamy.... and that's the 2007 "Rowdy, Proud & Loud!" Dallas Mavericks.
    Hahaha does not really count, huh? That Spurs team was fool's gold and everyone who paid attention that year knew it. Memphis was tanking at the end to get them because they knew they matched up well.

  8. #8
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Hahaha does not really count, huh? That Spurs team was fool's gold and everyone who paid attention that year knew it. Memphis was tanking at the end to get them because they knew they matched up well.
    Nope, that team was really good and finished with the second best record in the league behind the Bulls, who were more actually like fool's gold and Miami exposed them. But the Spurs beat the Heatles by 30 that year.

    I'd say the 2011 Spurs were more comparable to the 2006 Pistons than any other team. Ran up the score way too early in the season, played starters way too many minutes, basically ran them into the ground from opening night onward, starters were great but bench wasn't deep enough, had a really gaudy record the first 70% of the season until the big 3 all went down with pretty serious injuries and nagging injuries and started missing various games and they started losing and the nail in the coffin was when Manu broke his arm in a meaningless game @ Phoenix in like game 81 of 82 when the 1 seed was already clinched.

    It's true Memphis knew they had blood in the water with an injured, banged up, and exhausted Spurs team. They definitely wanted no part of the defending back-to-back champion Lakers who at that time were still the favorites to win it all. The Spurs and OKC were next in line. Nobody could have predicted Dallas. Dallas were perennial playoff chokers up to that point.

  9. #9
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Nope, that team was really good and finished with the second best record in the league behind the Bulls, who were more actually like fool's gold and Miami exposed them. But the Spurs beat the Heatles by 30 that year.

    I'd say the 2011 Spurs were more comparable to the 2006 Pistons than any other team. Ran up the score way too early in the season, played starters way too many minutes, basically ran them into the ground from opening night onward, starters were great but bench wasn't deep enough, had a really gaudy record the first 70% of the season until the big 3 all went down with pretty serious injuries and nagging injuries and started missing various games and they started losing and the nail in the coffin was when Manu broke his arm in a meaningless game @ Phoenix in like game 81 of 82 when the 1 seed was already clinched.

    It's true Memphis knew they had blood in the water with an injured, banged up, and exhausted Spurs team. They definitely wanted no part of the defending back-to-back champion Lakers who at that time were still the favorites to win it all. The Spurs and OKC were next in line. Nobody could have predicted Dallas. Dallas were perennial playoff chokers up to that point.
    Baloney. They did not defend nearly as well as previous Spurs teams. Remember we are talking pre-Kawhi in 2011. Look up their defensive rating that year in comparison to their le teams- there is no comparison because they were not nearly as good. I never took them seriously that year even with a healthy Manu.

  10. #10
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Hahaha does not really count, huh? That Spurs team was fool's gold and everyone who paid attention that year knew it. Memphis was tanking at the end to get them because they knew they matched up well.
    LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off ing hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.

  11. #11
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off ing hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.
    Exactly!

    I'll give them this, they were fun to watch that year as they moved the ball well and hit like 40% from three which was best in the entire NBA - but it was quite apparent that they were not serious contenders. Even before they ran out of gas, I was telling people they can not sustain this. What were they like 35-5 to start out? I knew that eventually teams would start to do a better job at closing in on shooters and that the Spur's smoke and mirrors defense would be exposed in the playoffs. As you said, to me, 2012 was a much better team overall.

  12. #12
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off ing hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.
    Not even close.....

    2009
    2010
    2015
    1998

    were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers?

  13. #13
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Not even close.....

    2009
    2010
    2015
    1998

    were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers?
    No way, the 2010 team beat a Mavs team that would have murdered the 2011 Spurs. The 98 team had a still awesome David Robinson. 2015 Spurs lost on a last second shot to a better Clippers team than the Grizzlies that dominated the 2011 Spurs. Only one you might be able to make a case for is the 09 team, although that was a season Manu was out for the playoffs.

  14. #14
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Baloney. They did not defend nearly as well as previous Spurs teams. Remember we are talking pre-Kawhi in 2011. Look up their defensive rating that year in comparison to their le teams- there is no comparison because they were not nearly as good. I never took them seriously that year even with a healthy Manu.
    The Spurs defense didn't really come back around until they traded for Stephen Jackson about 60% of the way through the lockout-shortened 2012 season, but they were solid in 2011, maybe not compared to the old le teams but certainly compared to the rest of the NBA. The biggest problem with 2011 was depth as they were really only about 8 deep, Poop refused to play Splitter and Bonner and Blair together (the Turd Towers) were an absolute trainwreck whenever Timmy needed a rest or (god forbid) missed a game. They started out 13-1, 25-3, 37-6, 44-8 and 49-10, but suffered bigtime injuries in March and finished 61-21 and were pretty much cooked geese by the time mid April came.

    But still.... nobody could have predicted Dallas. The MSM had Lakers-Heatles tickets booked from opening day, and the Bulls and OKC were also the talk of the town especially after the Hornets completely collapsed after flaming out super early as well that year. ZOMG Derrick Rose, ZOMG Durant and Westbrick and Harden and PERKINS!!! But still the Heatles are unstoppable and the Lakers are two time world champs... Dallas wasn't even on anyone's radar. They'd disappointed in '03, '04, '05, '06 (big time choke), '07 (biggest bad beat in NBA history), '08, '09 and especially '10 (losing as the #2 seed to the #7 Spurs who were terrible all year and it looked like the Big 3 were on their last legs at that point and the Spurs had even worse depth in 2010 than in 2011)... literally nobody had Dallas to win it all in 2011.

  15. #15
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    No way, the 2010 team beat a Mavs team that would have murdered the 2011 team. The 98 team had a still awesome David Robinson. 2015 Spurs lost on a last second shot to a better Clippers team than the Grizzlies that dominated the 2011 Spurs. Only one you might be able to make a case for is the 09 team, although that was a season Manu was out for the playoffs.
    The 2010 team was awful (50-32) and had the worst bench depth in the entire Duncan era. They mustered everything they could manage in round 1 and good ole Bennett Salvatore threw us a bone in game 6, but then we got skunked in the next round against a team we'd dominated since forever because we were just too tired and old and had no depth. The 2015 Spurs made a late run to get as far as they did but they were clearly inferior to 2014 and clearly needed another piece (Aldridge) since the big 3's real last hurrah was in 2014. They weren't a good team. 2009 the Spurs were just awful all year and their record was only as decent as it was because of a bunch of lucky last second shots at the end of close games (mostly against bad or middling teams) by TP and Roger Mason Jr.

    Really the 2001 and 2011 Spurs teams were pretty much the same on a lot of accounts. Front runners, star power but no depth, no bench, weak on defense in the backcourt, ran up the score early in the season, flamed out late, and it showed in the playoffs.

  16. #16
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    The 2010 team was awful (50-32) and had the worst bench depth in the entire Duncan era. They mustered everything they could manage in round 1 and good ole Bennett Salvatore threw us a bone in game 6, but then we got skunked in the next round against a team we'd dominated since forever because we were just too tired and old and had no depth. The 2015 Spurs made a late run to get as far as they did but they were clearly inferior to 2014 and clearly needed another piece (Aldridge) since the big 3's real last hurrah was in 2014. They weren't a good team. 2009 the Spurs were just awful all year and their record was only as decent as it was because of a bunch of lucky last second shots at the end of close games (mostly against bad or middling teams) by TP and Roger Mason Jr.
    Everyone knew that 2011 Spurs team was fools gold by March. The 2010 team actually beat a really good team in the playoffs, lol blaming Bennett Salvatore. And LOL 2015 Spurs were worse than the 2011 Spurs because they "made a late run"? So winning games in the most difficult part of the season means less than the 2011 Spurs fattening up on disinterested November and December compe ion?

  17. #17
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Really the 2001 and 2011 Spurs teams were pretty much the same on a lot of accounts. Front runners, star power but no depth, no bench, weak on defense in the backcourt, ran up the score early in the season, flamed out late, and it showed in the playoffs.
    LOL what? The 2001 Spurs were Prime Tim Duncan playing out of his mind and just ran into probably the third or fourth greatest team in NBA history in the WCF while missing their only perimeter scorer.

  18. #18
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    LOL what? The 2001 Spurs were Prime Tim Duncan playing out of his mind and just ran into probably the third or fourth greatest team in NBA history in the WCF while missing their only perimeter scorer.
    They weren't getting past the Lakers with Derek Anderson. DA was on the decline and he was never Manu or even Stephen Jackson. He was pretty much George Hill. a good system player and good shooter for the era but he was too small to play SF and not a good enough defender to match Kobe. The Spurs didn't even have a chance on defense against the Lakers until we nabbed Bruce away from Miami. Trying to guard Kobe/Fisher/Fox with some combination of Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, DA and/or Danny Ferry was a ing clown show the Spurs never had a chance before they got real dawgs to match the Lakers like Bowen and Stephen Jackson (who Poop pretty much redshirted in 2002 for no good reason).

    Still, my first memory of ever shouting the F word out loud was at age 7 regarding Juwan Howard in that Dallas playoff game... so forever Juwan Howard, tbh. He showed he's the same old turd as always just this year, tbh.

  19. #19
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    They weren't getting past the Lakers with Derek Anderson. DA was on the decline and he was never Manu or even Stephen Jackson. He was pretty much George Hill. a good system player and good shooter for the era but he was too small to play SF and not a good enough defender to match Kobe. The Spurs didn't even have a chance on defense against the Lakers until we nabbed Bruce away from Miami. Trying to guard Kobe/Fisher/Fox with some combination of Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, DA and/or Danny Ferry was a ing clown show the Spurs never had a chance before they got real dawgs to match the Lakers like Bowen and Stephen Jackson (who Poop pretty much redshirted in 2002 for no good reason).
    Um yeah they ran into a buzzsaw facing the greatest team the Lakers ever assembled. But they would have destroyed Philly and probably eeked out a series win in 6 or 7 vs Milwaukee strictly on Duncan's dominance that year if Kobe pulled a hamstring or Shaq blew out a knee. While the 2011 Spurs would have gotten beaten by any WC playoff opponent other than New Orleans in the 2011 playoffs.

  20. #20
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Everyone knew that 2011 Spurs team was fools gold by March. The 2010 team actually beat a really good team in the playoffs, lol blaming Bennett Salvatore. And LOL 2015 Spurs were worse than the 2011 Spurs because they "made a late run"? So winning games in the most difficult part of the season means less than the 2011 Spurs fattening up on disinterested November and December compe ion?
    The 2011 team was fool's gold and people on here recognized that even before March, I agree. It was not a championship contender and the Bonner/Blair stuff plus Richard Jefferson's wild inconsistency and the lack of depth made it painfully obvious.

    But the 2010 team was awful, it was the height of the Dark Ages of the Duncan era. Terrible season and they barely got to 50 wins by winning most of the really close games, again on late game heroic type stuff from the big 3 but it was clear they were aging and Roger Mason Jr. had completely fallen off. Finley was gone, McDyess was about done, George Hill was a surprise plus but the defense wasn't good and they were literally 7 deep and nobody after that was even worthy of the rotation.

    The 2010 first round playoff matchup for the Spurs was perfect though. The Ponies already had a reputation for being perennial playoff chokers by that point, and their epic 2010 playoff first round loss as a #2 seed against their arch rivals pretty much cemented, not just in the minds of the mainstream media but to pretty much everyone, that Mark Cuban and the Dallas franchise were complete failures and Dirk's legacy was that he was quite largely the biggest choker in NBA history, even more than say Barkley or Malone because Dirk never had to go through Jordan, for instance. The 2010 playoffs pretty much cemented Dallas and Nowitzki's legacy as the biggest chokers in the history of basketball or even pro sports in general...

    ..... And then 2011 happened

  21. #21
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Um yeah they ran into a buzzsaw facing the greatest team the Lakers ever assembled. But they would have destroyed Philly and probably eeked out a series win in 6 or 7 vs Milwaukee strictly on Duncan's dominance that year if Kobe pulled a hamstring or Shaq blew out a knee. While the 2011 Spurs would have gotten beaten by any WC playoff opponent other than New Orleans in the 2011 playoffs.
    The 2011 Spurs - before the injury big killed us in March - would have beaten any WC playoff opponent except perhaps Dallas and maybe OKC which was becoming a buzzsaw rapidly but got outgunned by a herculean Dirk that year. IIRC we dominated the Lakers in the RS that year and were beating teams like Miami by 30. The issues with the 2011 team were injuries caused by poor minute management by Pop caused in turn by poor depth. Gary Neal was too much of a one trick pony and the team as a whole was too flawed outside of an MVP-level Manu and a still-great Duncan and Parker, with occasional flashes from Hill, , Bonbon (lol) and whatever McDyess had left which wasn't much. The team just wasn't deep enough. It took way too long for Poop to realize that Blair wasn't an NBA player and Splitter needed to see the court and not the bench. The depth wasn't solidified until we drafted Kawhi, made Danny Green into an actual NBA player, a Bruce Bowen of sorts... swapped out to get Jackson back, and signed Diaw and Mills midway through the 2012 season.

    Honestly the best and deepest Spurs team ever assembled in the Duncan era was his very last year and even that team didn't make it past the second round, yes there were bad calls but it shouldn't have been that close against OKC to begin with. Would we have beaten 73-9 GSW that year...? maybe not but they were sure vulnerable. If OKC could have taken them to the brink, we would have too.

  22. #22
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    The 2011 Spurs - before the injury big killed us in March - would have beaten any WC playoff opponent except perhaps Dallas and maybe OKC which was becoming a buzzsaw rapidly but got outgunned by a herculean Dirk that year. IIRC we dominated the Lakers in the RS that year and were beating teams like Miami by 30. The issues with the 2011 team were injuries caused by poor minute management by Pop caused in turn by poor depth. Gary Neal was too much of a one trick pony and the team as a whole was too flawed outside of an MVP-level Manu and a still-great Duncan and Parker, with occasional flashes from Hill, , Bonbon (lol) and whatever McDyess had left which wasn't much. The team just wasn't deep enough. It took way too long for Poop to realize that Blair wasn't an NBA player and Splitter needed to see the court and not the bench. The depth wasn't solidified until we drafted Kawhi, made Danny Green into an actual NBA player, a Bruce Bowen of sorts... swapped out to get Jackson back, and signed Diaw and Mills midway through the 2012 season.
    So the 2011 Spurs would have beaten anyone in the west if they weren't old and if Richard Jefferson wasn't a choker whose game fell off a cliff as soon as the games started to matter? Also LOL 17.4PPG and 4.9AST on 43% shooting being MVP numbers.

  23. #23
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The Spurs defense didn't really come back around until they traded for Stephen Jackson about 60% of the way through the lockout-shortened 2012 season, but they were solid in 2011, maybe not compared to the old le teams but certainly compared to the rest of the NBA. The biggest problem with 2011 was depth as they were really only about 8 deep, Poop refused to play Splitter and Bonner and Blair together (the Turd Towers) were an absolute trainwreck whenever Timmy needed a rest or (god forbid) missed a game. They started out 13-1, 25-3, 37-6, 44-8 and 49-10, but suffered bigtime injuries in March and finished 61-21 and were pretty much cooked geese by the time mid April came.

    But still.... nobody could have predicted Dallas. The MSM had Lakers-Heatles tickets booked from opening day, and the Bulls and OKC were also the talk of the town especially after the Hornets completely collapsed after flaming out super early as well that year. ZOMG Derrick Rose, ZOMG Durant and Westbrick and Harden and PERKINS!!! But still the Heatles are unstoppable and the Lakers are two time world champs... Dallas wasn't even on anyone's radar. They'd disappointed in '03, '04, '05, '06 (big time choke), '07 (biggest bad beat in NBA history), '08, '09 and especially '10 (losing as the #2 seed to the #7 Spurs who were terrible all year and it looked like the Big 3 were on their last legs at that point and the Spurs had even worse depth in 2010 than in 2011)... literally nobody had Dallas to win it all in 2011.
    The only reason Dallas was not on the radar was because they had a habit of choking. They started out 24-5 that season before all the injuries piled up. Top 10 defense and offense and finally a atheltic big to compensate for Dirk's weaknesses. If you were paying attention that year, you knew early on that Dallas was for real. You just had to put aside any presuppositions.

  24. #24
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    Not even close.....

    2009
    2010
    2015
    1998

    were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers?
    2015 was actually a very good team. They just lacked hunger, as most Spur's teams did whenever they were defending les instead of pursuing them.

    To me, those 2008-2011 teams were the down era even though it still looked good on paper. The 2012 Spurs got Kawhi and Duncan worked his magic, hired a nutrionist, dropped weight and rejuvinated his career even with a progressive tendonosis issue.

  25. #25
    Let's Go Brandon Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    The only reason Dallas was not on the radar was because they had a habit of choking. They started out 24-5 that season before all the injuries piled up. Top 10 defense and offense and finally a atheltic big to compensate for Dirk's weaknesses. If you were paying attention that year, you knew early on that Dallas was for real. You just had to put aside any presuppositions.
    Add to the fact they had some severe injuries including season enders to big time contributors like Caron Butler, Corey Brewer, and the extremely overhyped-at-the-time Rodrigue Beaubois who people thought was rapidly ascending into an all star or better type league talent but turned out to be a nobody. ( "French Allah"). Peja missed most of the regular season... even Dirk missed a decent chunk of games. People thought they were too thin, too injured, too soft and too reliant on the three ball to win in big games. And the perennial playoff choker thingy.

    People didn't really believe Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson (guys who had been role players on other choking playoff teams not Dallas in the past) were actually dawgs who were going to topple the Lakers dynasty, retire Phil Jackson and win the whole damn thing. You can add Peja to the list of perennial playoff chokers that redeemed himself with the 2011 Mavs even though he was soft and really more of a shooter than a dawg. And Kidd and Terry too to some extent. I don't think anyone on that team had ever won a ring. Most of them had come close with various teams, though.

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