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6'11" Lambier.
Rodman a wide body and good rebounder albeit stat padder. But he had the shooters you mentioned behind him so rebound away.
But Rodman could board with other PFs 7 days a week.
Not Timmy Dunker, but your average PF easily.
Let's say Lebron did play PF full time for the Heat it still goes against small ball. Like I said Lebron is a legit 6'9 so he wasn't undersized to play that position and physically he is huge. Right now, it's fine for the Spurs to play Keldon at PF since they are not trying to contend but long term if they want to be an elite team again, they will have to find a legit PF with height.
6'11" Lambier.
Rodman a wide body and good rebounder albeit stat padder. But he had the shooters you mentioned behind him so rebound away.
But Rodman could board with other PFs 7 days a week.
Not Timmy Dunker, but your average PF easily.
I think the terms small ball and positionless basketball get thrown around a lot and usually without a very strong connection to reality. The issue for the Spurs with McDermott and KJ isn't necessarily size as much as talent and impact. If you replaced them with Jimmy Butler and Luka Doncic, the Spurs would be much better-- not because those guys are great fits as a starting forward tandem, but simply because they're better players generally. , the Spurs would likely be better starting Herb Jones and Chris Boucher, neither of whom is a star, or exceptionally tall. If KJ and McDermott are your 8th & 9th players, your team is probably outstanding. If they're your starters, you're a 12th seed with a 22-36 record.
to play small ball efficiently you need to have a line up of 5 good 3-point shooters and your small ball 5 better be a serious defender. This team has 2 players shooting over 35% from 3 and KBD as the only player who can play small ball 5. That's a recipe for disaster. Why Pop hasn't solved the PF problem yet, I don't have a clue.
In 2013 he was considered a shorter PF. Griffin, Aldridge, Love, Dirk, Randolph, even David Lee were making the all NBA team as Fs back then and now pretty much all of them would be a C in 2022.
But lebron is a supremely unique talent so not sure using him is a good point of anything
Pop would probably play a tall forward if we had one that was worth a sh!t.
You've successfully pointed out one of the weaknesses of our roster, but this team doesn't have Pascal Siakam to stick in the lineup. My guess is that if we had that type of player that he'd get lots of PT.
In rare defense of Pop, Morris(markieff I think?) Was supposed to solve that problem as Lamarcus was too slow to play the 4. That fell through. Then they drafted Samanic and he was supposed to be the problem solver for that. A 6-10 guy that is mobile and was average at the 3pt shot. He never did anything. I was hoping Zollins would help out at the PF spot, but he's sadly slower than I expected, which may have to do with injuries. Unfortunately what happened starting last season is that Aldridge rebounding was so bad (4 per game) that opened a way for Keldon to get minutes because he was grabbing 7-8rbs a game while Aldridge was struggling and that was fools gold. Because of that it seems the Spurs didn't look to improve in that area.
The Pistons’ big men were “role players”, in contrast to the prior two champs before, Celtics/Lakers, who had big men posting heavily, Jabbar, McHale and Parish. The Pistons were heavy in guards ball movements, almost always having 3 guards in the lineup, Isiah, Dumars, Maguirre or Vinnie coming from the bench (the term “microwave” sixth man). I will call the 89-90 Bad Boys were “small ball” because of the guard dominated ball, instead of heavy posting in the paint.
I’m not advocating any style as the best. Pop won in different types. I do like “small ball” though because of the ball movement and I play guard myself
But you play with your best personnel. Spurs are young and athletic. I see why Pop is pushing the tempo, with heavy passes to break defenses (albeit without a real go-to player yet). But the Beautiful Game needs to be played in near perfection, hard cuts and crisp passes, and shooting high percentage, less it would collapse. And for a young team still learning the ropes, that takes time.
He was as tall as Griffin, Love, Zbo so again he wasn't undersized for the position plus even back then he was huge.In 2013 he was considered a shorter PF. Griffin, Aldridge, Love, Dirk, Randolph, even David Lee were making the all NBA team as Fs back then and now pretty much all of them would be a C in 2022.
But lebron is a supremely unique talent so not sure using him is a good point of anything
Laimbeer made it to a few all-star games so I wouldn't say he was a role player. You can say Edwards, Mahorn were role players but still the Pistons went big which was my point. Sure, they went with a 3-guard lineup, but they weren't' committed to being a true small ball team in the sense of having an undersized frontline.The Pistons’ big men were “role players”, in contrast to the prior two champs before, Celtics/Lakers, who had big men posting heavily, Jabbar, McHale and Parish. The Pistons were heavy in guards ball movements, almost always having 3 guards in the lineup, Isiah, Dumars, Maguirre or Vinnie coming from the bench (the term “microwave” sixth man). I will call the 89-90 Bad Boys were “small ball” because of the guard dominated ball, instead of heavy posting in the paint.
I’m not advocating any style as the best. Pop won in different types. I do like “small ball” though because of the ball movement and I play guard myself
But you play with your best personnel. Spurs are young and athletic. I see why Pop is pushing the tempo, with heavy passes to break defenses (albeit without a real go-to player yet). But the Beautiful Game needs to be played in near perfection, hard cuts and crisp passes, and shooting high percentage, less it would collapse. And for a young team still learning the ropes, that takes time.
I personally hate small ball, but I get you having a preference for it. Everybody has certain styles of play they like. It is very difficult to be a good defensive team when you are grossly undersized at the PF spot or C spot or even both at the same time. Spurs right now are grossly undersized at the PF spot with Keldon playing the position. It doesn't matter since they are not trying to win games but in the long term it will need to be resolved.
True but like I said, using one of the most uniquely athletic players of all time to make that point doesn't mean much considering his physique and athleticism combo is basically unique to him only. He's an exception not the rule. He's one of the only players at his peak you could probably ask to guard any opposing player for a stretch and he could because of supreme genetics
against one of the worst backcourts in Finals history. Any of us up here that play ball, playiing alongside a prime Duncan and 2nd year ginobili could have averaged 10 ppg against Sasha, boobie, and hughes. Am I lying?
Rodman was about the size of Kobe in his prime during his piston years. He was about 210 lbs at the most back then lol
I should’ve said, Laimbeer did not play the prototypical big men game. But he was shooting the 3’s and creating lanes for his 3 guards. And he was far from the athletic big man posting. I was responding to no “small ball” team have ever won championship. I said the Warriors did, and the Bad Boys (small ball because they were guards dominated team, instead of the heavy big men posting), of I know of.
Last edited by John B; 02-15-2022 at 07:37 PM.
Maybe his colors made him appear heavier.
Let's get this straight playing nonathletic undersize players is not the definition of small ball basketball. Both our current forward are both not athletic nor long, thus we often see players blow by them or out jump them. We seldom even see them blowing by big men, we are so under size, under skill and under athletic that I have an impression of them cutting in and the defenders do not even need to jump to defend them and cause our players to miss layup.
Your argument is still flawed because the Pistons were not a small ball team. They would not have been a good defensive team if they didn't have Laimbeer, Mahorn, Edward who were all 6'10 and above. Have you forgotten that defense is also part of the game and not just offense? That's my point you can't win defensively if you have an undersized team. It's almost impossible to do.
2015 GS team was a long time ago! You could say that was the exception not the norm. I'm not saying that tall lineups are a given but neither are small ones. Once again the team that wins it all (besides the BS bubble championship) is usually well constructed, probably has a good coach, is balanced or star heavy and sometimes lucky. There is no real magic formula unless you're talking a dynasty which by itself is also fairly uncommon.Ah yes, Durant, the instrumental piece of that '15 Dubs ring. What a tired and stupid shtick
CP3 came extremely close to a ring more than once, was literally in the Finals last season, and only didn't win due to Giannis playing out of his mind, and they have a chance to go at it again. Bad example. Of course Curry is the prime example, but I'm figuring you'll brush him off based on your previous comment. Morant is like 21, of course he hasn't won anything... lol.
Correctly utilized (and well-manned in personnel) small-ball can perfectly be a winning strategy, especially in the modern game. '15 was a testament to it with the Death Lineup and all that jazz.
Coincidentally, Paul lost to a "tall" team.
LeBron is huge.
Not only that but they did it with defense. That's what got them over the top.
You are speaking truth. Had we played Detroit instead.. you never know. Maybe Manu woulda won it.
I think a lot of people are clueless about the defensive side of the game. Even though the league is more offense oriented today you still need to be good defensively to be an elite team. That's very hard to achieve if you are an undersized team at multiple positions.
People have this obsession with saying Warriors won with small ball but it's only a half truth. Even the 2015 team was a big team with Bogut starting at center and Ezeli backing him up. The only guy who was undersized was Draymond at PF but he has a long wingspan that makes up for him being a little small on the height side. That team did have the death line up where they would play Lee at Center, but they could only get away with it for small stretches in a game. No way they could play a full game and have success with that line up consistently.
The worst thing the Warriors did was give this league an illusion that you could win les by jacking up 3's and playing small ball. They have been so many failed copycats going that route the last several years. I still remember how dumb Mowry was when he thought the Rockets could win a le by being a small team and got rid of Capela.
Maybe Cacok will help fill the PF void next year, he’s not that tall but is built for the position more than anyone else currently on the roster.
Spurs have been playing micro ball all year. They have too many undersized players that can only be guards but are forced to play out of position at forward spots. This is just another example how poorly constructed this roster is. They desperately need a legit SF and PF.
The Warriors bigs Bogus and Donkey were allowed to get away with so much bull , false screens, Donkey kicks all the while the opponents in all 3 rounds were decimated with timely injuries.
Credit to how good Lebron was that he made it a series with Kyrie blowing out a knee.
Warrior bigs impressive? Not really.
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