A Behind the Scenes Look at the Dejounte Murray Trade

[DPG21920]

The Charlotte pick being somewhat likely to convert into two seconds is the part that really sticks for me.

Agreed. I dont think SA nets a first from CHA which is super frustrating. They should have held firm on getting OO instead of this CHA pick. If it conveys I will be very happy.

[Chinook]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...on-this-summer

Klutch did it again

It's important to know that Windhorst is either lying, or Klutch antagonistic for no reason. Murray couldn't sign a contract this year.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q51

58. Can existing contracts be extended?

Contracts for fewer than three seasons may not be extended. Longer contracts can be extended under certain cir stances:

Type of contract	Can be extended
Three and four seasons	Second anniversary after contract signed1
Five and six seasons	Third anniversary after contract signed1
Extended contracts	Second anniversary after extension signed2, if the extension lengthened the contract to three or four seasons (including any remaining seasons on the existing contract). If the extension lengthened the contract to five or six seasons (including any remaining seasons on the existing contract), it can be extended on the third anniversary after extension signed.
Renegotiated contracts	Third anniversary after renegotiation signed, if a salary was renegotiated upward by more than 10%
Rookie scale contracts	From the end of the July Moratorium to the day before the start of the regular season preceding the player's last option season3

...

Veteran extensions:Note: certain players (called Designated Veterans) can receive longer and more lucrative extensions than described here, if they meet specific service, tenure and performance criteria. Designated Veteran Extensions are covered in question number 24.Extensions to contracts that are not rookie scale contracts (i.e., veteran extensions) may be signed up to June 30, the day before the player would have become a free agent. However, an extension cannot be signed starting on the first day of the regular season and through June 30 if more than one season remains on the contract (in other words if more than one season remains, they have to complete an extension before the season starts, or otherwise wait until the last season of the contract).

The bolded parts are the important parts.

Murray's third anniversary from his extension is 10/22/2022. The first day of the season this year is 10/18/2022 (for various reasons, the regular season is expected to begin on that date rather than 10/25, but I actually wasn't able to determine for sure). Because the Spurs waited until the last minute, Murray's window won't open up until after the end of the regular season. I mentioned this a couple of days ago when lamenting the team's inability to renegotiate and extend him. But it's not okay for Klutch to not know an extension wasn't possible in the first place. Maybe they didn't but I think it's something that "seems like it would be true" more than it was actually true. If that did happen, it is a pointless bit of thorniness considering that the extension is most likely impossible.

[Mr. Body]

Yes they are.

You'll see no huge FA incoming that will mess up the tank.

That has nothing to do with whether the team is tanking. A huge FA was stupid anyway.

[BatManu20]

God I hope not. This team needs to win 15-20 games next year.

This. I swear to God if we’re battling for the play-in again next season…

[Chinook]

The Charlotte pick being somewhat likely to convert into two seconds is the part that really sticks for me.

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

[exstatic]

Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?

Don’t think DJ would sign an extension. He’d want a complete new contract in 2024, and he wouldn’t be signing for 4/$64M again.

[DPG21920]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

I would trade them Jakob for just salary filler IF they simply agreed to alter the protections on their pick we have to top 3 protected only.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Twitter is animated now with so many posts from fans of other teams assuming that Poeltl and KJ are there for the taking...

I guess other teams see us as some broke version of Ted Septien's Cleveland Cavs team.

[rascal]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

Send them Poeltl for them to lift the protections on the pick the Spurs have.

[exstatic]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

Steve Clifford just took the reins again, and he’s pretty good at getting them to the playoffs. Four times in 8 years, and more importantly, never missed 3 years in a row.

[Robz4000]

It's important to know that Windhorst is either lying, or Klutch antagonistic for no reason. Murray couldn't sign a contract this year.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q51



The bolded parts are the important parts.

Murray's third anniversary from his extension is 10/22/2022. The first day of the season this year is 10/18/2022 (for various reasons, the regular season is expected to begin on that date rather than 10/25, but I actually wasn't able to determine for sure). Because the Spurs waited until the last minute, Murray's window won't open up until after the end of the regular season. I mentioned this a couple of days ago when lamenting the team's inability to renegotiate and extend him. But it's not okay for Klutch to not know an extension wasn't possible in the first place. Maybe they didn't but I think it's something that "seems like it would be true" more than it was actually true. If that did happen, it is a pointless bit of thorniness considering that the extension is most likely impossible.

I remember you mentioning that too, which is why I thought it was weird. Honestly feel like this was Klutch manipulating the situation to get Murray to a more desirable market/situation. I know the Marcus Morris debacle wasn't entirely their fault but this feels like some underhanded .

[Silverheart80]

I'm glad they didn't trade him for another on-the-cusp all star player who'd just continue the trend of pathetic mediocrity and would up their cap space.

Agree.

[R. DeMurre]

We've come a long way from just about 75 days ago when anyone suggesting that the Spurs should avoid the play in game in order to secure a lottery pick was labeled as having a "loser mentality" or being a "negative nancy." Now, a full on tank is embraced as the most reasonable and sensible way forward. It might be, and I'm not even too hot or cold on the Dejounte move, but it's interesting how fast the moods of the uber opinionated change. San Antonio is essentially OKC now, which is a look I'm not a fan of, but probably more for aesthetic than practical reasons.

[Chinook]

I remember you mentioning that too, which is why I thought it was weird. Honestly feel like this was Klutch manipulating the situation to get Murray to a more desirable market/situation. I know the Marcus Morris debacle wasn't entirely their fault but this feels like some underhanded .

If we believe Windhorst, I do think it's possible that Klutch came up to the Spurs and mentioned Murray wanted to hold off on discussions on an extension until the next season. I just think that the Spurs almost certainly didn't count on being able to give him that extension in the first place. They maybe have interpreted the interaction (again assuming it happened) as Murray wanting out. But this makes it less likely they traded him for money. Next season, it would have been a big deal. This season, at most it just let the Spurs know Murray wasn't against moving. It would not have been hard at all to explain the CBA to Klutch and remove any chance the sides could have hard feelings over the contract this season.

[gilmor2002]

the real problem is that they are no (prob zero in current days) all-star NBA players like Tim, Manu or Parker; who take less for more.

[baseline bum]

Can't really bring up rookies during the Big 3 era, imo. I doubt Murray develops into the player he is today if he is drafted 10 years earlier. The usage just wouldn't have been there. And the current crop is still TBD. It took Murray 6 years.

And if you can't develop one, just max one out. It really isn't this devastating blow. He's a great complimentary piece for a team looking for that final puzzle piece but the Spurs are so far away from being able to utilize him in that ideal way.

Aldridge is still the only high level FA signing this team has ever made. Fact is this is not a market FAs want to go to and having max capspace requires a ton of planning ahead.

[baseline bum]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

Meh you have way more faith in Jordan than I do.

[daslicer]

the real problem is that they are no (prob zero in current days) all-star NBA players like Tim, Manu or Parker; who take less for more.

Yup this is my concern regarding the Spurs which is they are never going to be able to retain their future star players for cheap like they did with the big 3. Those days are over. If the Spurs are fortunate to be in position to be contenders again in the future, I wonder how big their window will be since they are cheap when it comes to retaining star players.

[cd98]

Anyone have Kevin Pelton breakdown of trade on ESPN plus?

[baseline bum]

the real problem is that they are no (prob zero in current days) all-star NBA players like Tim, Manu or Parker; who take less for more.

Do you take a paycut at work? Why should Dejounte?

[Mr. Body]

Aldridge is still the only high level FA signing this team has ever made. Fact is this is not a market FAs want to go to and having max capspace requires a ton of planning ahead.

Shouldn't we consider Michael Finley a pretty significant FA signing?

[John B]

Don’t think DJ would sign an extension. He’d want a complete new contract in 2024, and he wouldn’t be signing for 4/$64M again.

He’d be asking for the Max. It needs no spelling it. DJ will be gone and the Spurs did their diligence to salvage what they can get from him. I’m just glad DJ worked with the Spurs to get a full return instead of doing the nephew (no reason to). And the silver lining is that the Spurs NEED to rebuild. DJ’s game is flawed. He is not the tier 1 player to build on. It’s best to get the most FRP’s and roll to get a high lottery pick hoping to get a Tier 1 to build on. Or it’s still possible that a disgruntled player wants out and those FRP’s could be handy. Just the same, it’s not DJ and it’s better to rebuild now.

[kjhip1]

Anyone have Kevin Pelton breakdown of trade on ESPN plus?

Kevin Pelton
ESPN Senior Writer

"How will Dejounte Murray fit alongside Trae Young with the Atlanta Hawks?

The Hawks made the biggest addition of the NBA offseason to date on Wednesday, sending three first-round picks -- two of them unprotected, per ESPN's Zach Lowe -- and a pick swap to the San Antonio Spurs in exchange for Murray, chosen as an NBA All-Star for the first time last season at age 25.

Having played point guard in San Antonio, Murray will be an interesting fit next to Young in the Atlanta backcourt. An All-Defensive second-team pick in 2017-18, Murray will undoubtedly be an upgrade at that end of the court for a Hawks team that ranked 26th in defensive rating last season -- worst of anyone to make the playoffs.

On the other side, the Spurs are dealing Murray at the peak of his value with two years remaining on his inexpensive contract. San Antonio's roster is now built around six first-round picks from the past three drafts, including three this year, with more on the way.

Let's break down what this trade means for both teams.

The deal
Hawks get:
Dejounte Murray

Spurs get:
Danilo Gallinari
2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte Hornets)
2025 first-round pick
2027 first-round pick
Future pick swap with Atlanta

Atlanta Hawks: C
Adding Murray will surely revive the age-old question of how the Hawks can utilize Young's shooting without constantly having the ball in his hands. Young's 8.7 minutes per game time of possession ranked third highest in the NBA, per Second Spectrum tracking on NBA Advanced Stats; and the 3,730 pick-and-rolls he ran, according to Second Spectrum, were 11% more than the next-highest player (Luka Doncic).

Building a heliocentric offense around Young has produced great regular-season results for Atlanta, which ranked second behind the Utah Jazz in offensive rating in 2021-22. Come playoff time, however, Young struggled as the primary option against the aggressive defense of the Miami Heat, averaging just 15.4 points per game on 32% shooting with more turnovers (31) than assists (30).

Given Young powered the Hawks' surprising run to the Eastern Conference finals in 2020-21, the question isn't whether he can succeed in the playoffs. It's whether putting so much offensive responsibility in his hands maximizes his value to Atlanta against the best defenses. Enter Murray, another high-volume ball handler who ranked sixth overall in pick-and-rolls (2,608) and seventh in time of possession (7.4 MPG).

When pairings like this have succeeded, it's typically because both players are also off-ball threats. Think Chris Paul with either James Harden in Houston (at least the first season) or Devin Booker in Phoenix. That doesn't describe Murray, a 33% career 3-point shooter who is better in catch-and-shoot situations (36% last season, per Second Spectrum) but still below average.

It also hasn't described Young, who has the shooting chops to succeed in that role (he hit a sizzling 45% of his catch-and-shoot 3s in 2021-22, 11th among players with at least 50 such attempts) but rarely plays it. He took just 86 catch-and-shoot 3s all season. The 83% of Young's field goals that were unassisted last season was fourth highest among players who made at least 250, per NBA Advanced Stats. Murray again wasn't far behind at 73% (11th in that group).

The obvious comparison when we talk about Young being more of an off-ball threat is Stephen Curry, the deep-shooting, undersized guard who has always been a reference point for Young. As Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr recently pointed out on the Lowe Post, that's possible partly because Curry played shooting guard his first two years at Davidson, requiring him to work on the movement necessary to get open without the ball. Unlike Curry, Young has always had the ball in his hands as he developed.

Ultimately, the comparison is unfair because Curry's combination of ballhandling and ability to wreck a defense with off-ball movement is unparalleled throughout NBA history. The Hawks don't need Young to be Curry. They just need Young to be active enough to keep defenses engaged and allow Murray room to operate with the ball in his hands.

There are two clear wins from this deal for Atlanta.

The first is defensively. Although Murray hasn't quite reached his All-Defensive peak since returning from an ACL tear in the 2018 preseason, he generates steals at a high rate and is an excellent defensive rebounder for a guard. Murray is capable of taking on the tougher defensive assignment in the backcourt, allowing Young to hide on less threatening opponents.

Additionally, the Hawks should have more hope of surviving the minutes Young spends on the bench, allowing him to get more rest. After finding a successful formula for the second unit built around Bogdan Bogdanovic in the second half of the 2020-21 season, Atlanta again struggled to score without Young last season. The team's offensive rating dropped by 10 points per 100 possessions with Young on the bench.

To some extent, I think those issues are inevitable with an offense built so much around a single player, but the Hawks will have an All-Star point guard on the court at all times now and (hopefully) won't be as reliant on Young.

Despite Murray having one of the league's better contracts -- paying him like a midtier starting point guard ($16.6 million this season and $17.7 million in 2023-24) -- adding him will still be costly because Atlanta used Danilo Gallinari's partially guaranteed salary to match it rather than that of one of the team's core players, such as forward John Collins.


By waiving Gallinari today, the Hawks could have ducked the luxury tax this season. Instead, they'll start free agency over the projected tax line before filling out their roster. Atlanta will be hard-pressed to get out by the deadline because there's so little fat to trim. All eight players making more than $3.5 million this season will be part of the Hawks' rotation.

Although adding Murray is an upgrade for Atlanta, I'm not sure it puts the Hawks in the projected top half of the East playoff standings. I'd still have them behind the Boston Celtics, Heat, Milwaukee Bucks and Philadelphia 76ers, pending additional moves this offseason. And that's where you start to wonder about the price.

As Lowe argued, giving up three first-round picks for a player on a value contract makes sense if that player gets a team to a crucial new level. The Bucks surely don't regret s ing out even more swaps and picks for Jrue Holiday after Holiday immediately helped them win a championship. But there's more room here for the Hawks to second-guess this deal.

Giving up two unprotected picks has the benefit of providing Atlanta a little flexibility to trade additional first-rounders. The Hawks can, at the moment, trade their own picks in 2023 and 2029. The downside is there's no parachute if the Hawks' future goes worse than planned. (Say, by Murray leaving as an unrestricted free agent in 2024 because his low salary makes an extension unrealistic.) Even the pick swap in 2026 in between the two first-rounders is unprotected, per ESPN's Tim Bontemps.

Atlanta is betting big on Murray fitting with Young. For the team's future, that bet better be correct.

San Antonio Spurs: A
I understand if Spurs fans are disappointed about trading an All-Star who won't turn 26 until September and has two years left on his contract. However, the value San Antonio got in return would have been difficult to turn down. As Murray moved toward unrestricted free agency and either bumping up his salary near the max or heading elsewhere, his trade value would have diminished rapidly.

By pushing the two picks from the Hawks three years into the future, the Spurs both increased the chances of those having lottery upside and timed them to land just as San Antonio's remaining young core should start paying dividends. In addition, the Spurs will get an extra first-round pick as early as next year from the Hornets that Atlanta got in the Cam Reddish deal.

For now, San Antonio's best pick is probably the team's own in 2023. It's worth remembering that the Spurs' decades of success started when a gap season due to injuries (primarily star center David Robinson) was rewarded by winning the Tim Duncan sweepstakes. I don't think it's fair to say at this point that French center Victor Wembanyama or G League Ignite guard Scoot Henderson (the projected top two picks in the recent 2023 mock draft from ESPN's Jonathan Givony) are at that level, but San Antonio can hope for a similar outcome.

There is still young talent on hand, led by the duo of Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell. Those young players will likely struggle with the increased offensive responsibility created by Murray's departure, but those growing pains could pay off in the long term. The Spurs also should be able to find minutes for all three of this year's first-round picks: guards Malaki Branham and Blake Wesley and forward Jeremy Sochan.

Pending a possible buyout for Gallinari, San Antonio could still create more than $25 million in cap space. That wouldn't be enough at the moment to make a max offer sheet to Suns center Deandre Ayton, but the Spurs could surely get there if they want to envision Ayton as the centerpiece of their rebuild. Alternatively, San Antonio could continue the slow build by using the room to take unwanted contracts from other teams."

[Degoat]

Anyone have Kevin Pelton breakdown of trade on ESPN plus?

San Antonio Spurs: A

I understand if Spurs fans are disappointed about trading an All-Star who won't turn 26 until September and has two years left on his contract. However, the value San Antonio got in return would have been difficult to turn down. As Murray moved toward unrestricted free agency and either bumping up his salary near the max or heading elsewhere, his trade value would have diminished rapidly.
By pushing the two picks from the Hawks three years into the future, the Spurs both increased the chances of those having lottery upside and timed them to land just as San Antonio's remaining young core should start paying dividends. In addition, the Spurs will get an extra first-round pick as early as next year from the Hornets that Atlanta got in the Cam Reddish deal.

[daslicer]

Shouldn't we consider Michael Finley a pretty significant FA signing?

I would say no since he only joined the Spurs since they were contenders and plus, he was a little bit past his prime when he joined the Spurs.