Reply With Quote
I can't speak for anyone else but I hope the drug is actually working like we hear from these anecdotes. If there's no downside, let people try. We're in a literal emergency.
Why do you have to make a straw man to defend Trump?
So far all I've heard about this is
1) anecdotes from French doctor.
2) anecdotes from NY doctor.
3) anecdotes from NJ doctor with sons who did....something....
4) anecdotes from Dr. Oz about China.
As widely available as the drugs seem to be, shouldn't there be more than this out there?
I can't speak for anyone else but I hope the drug is actually working like we hear from these anecdotes. If there's no downside, let people try. We're in a literal emergency.
You should see his W-2 form though
It's actually a good point. Off-label prescribing is perfectly legal, but it comes with the risk of getting it wrong. So if a doc "knows" he can prescribe you some Vicodin for your headache and you aren't going to die, fine. But the claims by these doctors are they are giving these to semi-symptomatic patients not bringing patients off respirators, with no clinical evidence it doesn't make it worse, is a huge risk. If it turns out killing semi-symptomatic patients, they would be liable without FDA cover, which they got Sunday.
And there's 30m+ doses available right now with another 100m coming within a month
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/31/...e-coronavirus/For one, hydroxychloroquine may have been safely prescribed for decades, but it is not benign — the drug can cause irregular heart rhythms. Given the mortality risk, the American College of Cardiology suggests any patient prescribed the drug should be part of a clinical trial, while conceding the benefit may outweigh the risk in Covid-19 patients who are in intensive care units or over 70 years old.
Another problem: The rush to prescribe is making it hard for people with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis to get refills, since the drug was approved to treat those illnesses, as well. Presumably, manufacturer donations to the Strategic National Stockpile will alleviate this concern, but there’s no guarantee if many prescriptions are written for people with mild to moderate symptoms.
This possibility may only have been heightened by the emergency use granted by the FDA, which makes the medication available to hospital patients if a clinical trial is not underway. But this could give the wrong impression about the spotty trial data, which the FDA acknowledged was anecdotal. And as Fernandez Lynch points out, it could be easy for some people to confuse the move with an actual FDA approval.
For now, I think the approach taken by such physicians as David Hill makes the most sense.
I tried looking for downside, and this was the best I could find ... I don't understand why the drug isn't getting more use.
The FDA issued and exception for NY, but doctors had to have patients sign off that they were part of a clinical trial in order to get the drug (no placebos).
This was a couple of weeks before the general exception.
I'm hopeful that they do work, my issue is that there's toxicity within them, so if they do NOT work, we might be piling on health problems. That's why we have clinical trials in the first place.
HCQ has a long list of side effects, including macular degeneration
can't take too much, can't take too long
ma niga
Well, what further complicates things is liability. A doctor in the ICU might not have the entire clinical history of a patient in front of him, and if this patient happens to have a history of cardiac problems that get exacerbated by the drug and the patient dies, without the FDA exception there's a huge liability for the doctor and hospital.
Interesting, I missed that. Would love a link if you've got it handy.
Last edited by Splits; 04-02-2020 at 03:42 PM.
Exactly.
Ironically, this is only an issue if HCQ turns out to be (half) as good as claimed.
France is reporting 1300 deaths. Not sure if that's a combined number from yesterday and today.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
I might post the Swiss equivalent. It has only gotten bigger.
I can't get any data on this, but are people with Lupus contracting covid-19? If not, wouldn't that suggest that the drug has a prophylactic effect?
i dont know of anybody that is hoping the drug doesnt work as treatment... the issue many take with it is that some are marketing as though we have a sure-thing cure, which can lead to people thinking there's no longer a serious threat, since even if you get infected, you can be cured no questions.
its dangerous to tout it that way, and its dangerous for hospitals to treat this as a one-off cure and send patients home without having the appropriate studies done to confirm that it is, indeed, effective
there are other complications as ElNono pointed out, where there are inherent dangers of using the drug as treatment in the ICU where full records/history aren't available to the doctor who is making the decision
that seems oddly high... they had about 500 deaths for the past couple of days per worldometer. i imagine and hope that's just a tabulation error at this point
I'd take that HCQ in a heartbeat, if I thought it would keep me off a respirator. Aren't your survival odds only like 20%, if you get on respirator?
is it necessarily an either/or thing?
if your situation is so grim where you cant breathe without a ventilator, i dont know (literally, i have no medical expertise) that a drug will fix it at that point
Bend over, I'll... well you know.
Both chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine have extremely good safety profiles when taken as directed. The more serious complications come from long term use or people with serious heart conditions. You can look up the safety data of virtually any medication (even over the counter) and find serious side effects that happen to some small percentage of people. Medicine is not an exact science.
Too much is being made out of that couple that took 16 times the recommended dose and ed themselves up.
Too much is also being made of the word anecdotal. Dr. Fauci's initial use of that word was in response to a specific question about using the drug as a prophylactic (to prevent infection not treatment). Now people like Chump are running with it cuz Trump.
As a treatment, we have good in vitro evidence on their inhibition of viral attachment & replication and chemically why it does. We have decades of studies on their inhibition of cytokine production, that's why they are used for autoimmune diseases. And we have a number of small imperfect studies of actual clinical use. That's all a bit more than anecdotal I would say.
That's all very hopeful. We'll see what the large scale study shows. It's not going to be a wonder drug though where you give it to people near or already in organ failure and they all magically get better. Those medicines do not exist.
You mean they have to wear condoms?
There are currently 19 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 19 guests)
Posting Permissions
