Which young foriegn player in our backcourt do you think will step up the most this season?
Between Ginobili and Parker, which guard do you think will clearly seperate himself as the superior player?
To me, it is a tough call.
While I think Manu brings more intangibles to the table, I feel like Parker is going to assume more a leadership role on this team and establish himself as a consistent, second star for the Spurs, with Manu being the third-best Spur as a jack-of-all-trades.
What do you peeps think?
Manu will because he is the more complete player (def. a better passer) and stronger defensivley, i also think his abi y to score is very similar to parker's, that is one of the reasons that i consitently said Parker was worth Manu money, i never thought he was really worth 66 million dollars, but when adriyan foyle gets a 42 million dollar extension...
I agree to some extent.
I think Parker will get most of the notoriety and a lot of credit for becoming a dependable scorer. If his jump shot has really improved like he says it has, he'll be difficult to defend. He'll certainly get the most opportunities.
Manu will do all the little things and he'll score some points just because he'll get more playing time. I think he'll gain some respect as an above-average defender. I've always criticized him for gambling on defense, but I'm hoping that his two years in the league have taught him how to stay in front of his man. He anticipates as well as anyone on both ends of the court.
Of course, neither is a guaranteed thing. Our latest memories of Parker include his performance against the Lakers when he couldn't score and couldn't get shots for his teammates. And with Manu, some would argue that he's reached his ceiling and we've seen the best he has to offer. I think it's reasonable for us to expect improvement from both. I think it will happen, but it isn't a sure thing.
I agree. Ginobili's talents are not always obvious on the balance sheet - he'll win games for you, but won't throw up lots of points. Parker will turn into a star this year in a more obvious way, as the second scorer. I just don't believe Manu has it in him to be a big-time scorer in this league - even in the Olympics he was more of a spot scorer. Parker is different. Both are valuable.
I agree. I think Parker is ready to turn the corner and take his game to the next level.I feel like Parker is going to assume more a leadership role on this team and establish himself as a consistent, second star for the Spurs, with Manu being the third-best Spur as a jack-of-all-trades.
Manu, if and only he gets to shoot and drive it to the hoop more.
Parker or Ginobili: Who Takes the Bigger Next Step?
Gino definitely takes longer steps when he goes to the basket, so my v-dollar's with Gino for his next step.
I believe and hope that they'll both seperate themselves as superior players in different ways. I think Parker's ppg are going to be phenomenal as a result of Manu's Mad amount of assists he is going to rack up this year. And with Beno and Barry in the mix as well, we are gonna get so many open looks it is gonna be ridiculous.Between Ginobili and Parker, which guard do you think will clearly seperate himself as the superior player?
I could'nt agree moreWhile I think Manu brings more intangibles to the table, I feel like Parker is going to assume more a leadership role on this team and establish himself as a consistent, second star for the Spurs, with Manu being the third-best Spur as a jack-of-all-trades.
rParker or Ginobili: Who Takes the Bigger Next Step?
Gino definitely takes longer steps when he goes to the basket, so my v-dollar's with Gino for his next step.
right on!
I agree with everything Ghost said....
I would also prefer Parker to increase his scoring, Manu is older by 5 or so years, as a result his growth isn't as important when you consider the long term future of the organisation. If Parker becomes a consistent star at his age.. look out world.
well i think its funny that everyone thinks Parker is the better scorer, history shows us tha Ginobili does more with less time and has the better all around game, and as far as the olympics, i have to disagree, big game after big game for Ginobili and a huge preformance against team usa.
I think that as between the two, Tony is the superior talent and is closer to being at the top of his position. That's not to say that Manu is a poor man's anything. But I think (and the Spurs seem to think) that Tony is simply the better player.
With some of the "proving himself" pressure gone, I'd expect Parker to settle down and rise a notch or two this season. He's said he's going to work on getting his teammates involved, and if he does that, he's going to make that rise -- to me its a sign of his maturity and his understanding of what Pop wants out of him. If he plays like he did in March-April-early May last year, the kid will be a load. If he raises his assists by 1.5 or 2 per game, and marginally increases his scoring, he's going to be securely in the Nash/Bibby-type range of PG, which makes him a borderline all-star every year. I just expect great things from the kid.
I think Manu is already an above average defender. Not quite elite like Bowen, but very valuable in his own way. The guy just disrupts a defense with all of his deflections and steals. Lots of times his steals are on passes his own man throws, most great thiefs get their steals by picking players pockets on their way to the basket or stepping into passing lanes.Manu will do all the little things and he'll score some points just because he'll get more playing time. I think he'll gain some respect as an above-average defender. I've always criticized him for gambling on defense, but I'm hoping that his two years in the league have taught him how to stay in front of his man. He anticipates as well as anyone on both ends of the court.
Manu had a few games where his gambles were boneheaded and hurt the team. But I truly think his gambles pay off a lot more than not. I actually read a scouting report on him once that actually said he is able to gamble and suceed a lot more often times than not. I also looked back on some old scouting reports on some past defenders and even under Scottie Pippen's name it said likes to gamble a lot and it doesn't always pay off, but he still was rated as a perfect defender.
I am not saying Manu has ELITE containment defense. But as a team defender he is very disruptive, creates a lot of turnovers through drawing charges and deflections, and is probably a bit above average in terms of containment D. Thus I would say overall if you factor his containment man-to-man D, and team D, he is a very valuable and above average 2 guard defender.
Back to the original topic.
If I had to guess I would say TP will seperate himself as the better player. The reason is simply cause he will likely be the better and more consistent scorer.
If we are talking about overall value and talent to the team I thought it was very close last season. Parker was the better scorer in terms of consistency and scoring more with extra shot attempts, but Ginobili was more well rounded and gave more intangibles when his shot was off.
Parker should seperate himself a bit more by improving his shot, scoring consistency, and floor general skills. If he does that Manu will likely be the bonafide third option, with Tony as the second.
I like Manu's game a lot, but I'm not sure he can improve too much in the scoring department. He has the ability to it seems, but I'm not sure if he will capatilize on it.
Eventually Parker will be the clear second best player. Right now he is the second option, but I don't think hes proven to be clearly a better overall player yet. The advantage might be slight, but he has to live up to his talent to truly be a great 2nd option for this team. He probably will this season.
Manu just has to score a little more at a similiar efficiency as last season, but also cut down on turnovers. If he could make those chippy layups then that would be very nice.
This one is easy. The perception of most fans is that the better player is the guy that scores the most. Points per game is the ultimate statistic for 90% of the fans. Based on the characteristics of the players and the system the Spurs use, Parker will naturally score more.
Parker has the ball in his hands 50% of the time and shots more. Pop is perfectly fine with Tony shooting more as well. Marginal improvements in FG% (up to 8%) by any player are only equivalent to less that 1 shot per game at the rate that Parker and Gino shoot the ball. So the most important factor for PPG is shot attempts, and Parker has a clear advantage by design.
If the notion would be some more integral efficiency metric, Manu has a clear edge. He contributes more in all facets of the game, and has consistently increased his efficiency in the playoffs in the last 2 years. Last playoffs, Manu was 7th in efficiency and 1st in efficiency/min among all shooting guards (better eff/min than Kobe!). He was also top 10 in eff/min among all players in the playoffs (Duncan was 6th).
I just read an interview where Manu said he is fine with parker being the second option. He also said he doubts he could ever make an all star game.
Not that the all star game means anything, but Im not sure I like the idea of him defering too much. He will be needed to score whether Parker becomes a very good section option or not.
I would hope Manu keeps working hard and actually wants to be a better scorer and overall player this season. Perhaps he does not like to talk about making all star games or whatever -- he seems a bit humble in general. But I just hope deep down he feels he can grow as an NBA player, not neccesarily an all star, but maybe close.
If he doesn't beleive that he could be a better player, than I would worry a bit.
Bottom line is Manu needs to be more consistent in scoring on MORE shot attempts, while cutting his turnovers (or increasing his assists if his TOPG stay nearly the same).
Efficiency stats might say he is a very good player, but at some points he needs to maintain that efficiency with MORE shots. He needs to score more consistently, or at least cut the turnovers. Otherwise, he probably won't improve as a player nor even be close to the second best player on the team (unless TP doesn't grow much at all, which is unlikely).
Tony goes off on occasion. That game he had at Boston last year was incredible. He is pretty much unstoppable if he's knocking down his jumper.
But Manu has that chutzpah or whatever it's called. When he starts to warm up, you just feel like he's going to do something amazing every trip down the court. The game he had against Sactown last season was legendary. The dunk and the threes against the Cavs was insane. And the three consecutive three pointers at Chicago was Jordanesque.
I think Manu will make the All-Star team this season because he will stand out as one of the premier two guards in the NBA. Tony will probably have to wait a year but who knows, maybe both will make it.
Excellent analysis here by everyone, especially RVB and Nikos.
I am counting on Parker to emerge as the second-best Spur, but it's evident to me so far that Manu is.
Ginobili has been sensational so far this season.
Manu can cut to the basket whenver he wants thus far.
I dare say that he is a better playmaker than Parker. He can create for himself and others.
I want Parker to be more than a shoot-first undersized SG playing the point.
I want him to make the right decisions for the team and himself.
Parker has been on the Spurs long enough to garner the respect of his teammates and assert himself as team leader.
Scoring points is overrated.
P.S.
The Sonics announcer (might've been Craig Ehlo) said Manu is probably the Spurs best perimeter player. Bold.
Agreed. Manu will become a better shooter and a Complete Playmaker.
Parker will be traded. Of course, i'd love to be wrong here, and I'm rooting for TP to make my statment moot and idiotic. We shall see.
Parker is not gonna be traded.
Is he?
I will be pissed if that b1tch Kidd comes here ina deal. Let him suffer on NJ's IL.
Parker is going nowhere.
Not on the Spurs. The Spurs are a team without a proven second scorer. Manu has done a good job so far, but it's unclear if he'll be able to remain consistent enough to be a reliable scorer every day.Scoring points is overrated.
The Spurs lost in the playoffs last season because they couldn't score points. They've failed in past years because they couldn't score points.
On the Spurs, scoring points isn't overrated. It's the key to their success this season.
That's fine, Brodels, but the PG's primary role is to create scoring opportunities for the team as a whole.
Parker needs to not just look for his own shot and set up his teammates.
Duncan and even Rasho are skilled at finishing on breaks.
Manu finds open players on the perimeter after his dribble-drives more than Parker.
Take a look at the stat sheet, Manu is filling it up this year.
Answer to question: #20.
Traditionally, yes. But it doesn't have to be that way on the Spurs. The Spurs won two seasons ago with Parker being a scorer more than a distributor. Other successful point guards are scorers first and distibutors second. Guys like Marbury, Iverson, Francis, and Davis have all found success by scoring points and getting teammates shots too.That's fine, Brodels, but the PG's primary role is to create scoring opportunities for the team as a whole.
Parker needs to set up his teammates for easy buckets, but he needs to be a scorer first. Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Brent Barry, and Beno Udrih are all better at getting their teammates good looks. That's O.K. The Spurs have lost of options when it comes to creating scoring opportunities for others. It doesn't need to be Parker.
The Spurs will struggle at times to score points. Parker is arguably the second-best scorer on the team. If you ask him to create opportunities for his teammates first and score second, you're taking away his greatest strength and highlighting one of his weaknesses.
He needs to do both. But Parker is a scoring point guard. He needs to score if the Spurs are going to be successful.Parker needs to not just look for his own shot and set up his teammates.
Rasho is not skilled at finishing on breaks. Manu, Duncan, and Barry are very good though.Duncan and even Rasho are skilled at finishing on breaks.
You're right. But in my mind, that's O.K. The Spurs don't need to stick to the traditional model to be successful.Manu finds open players on the perimeter after his dribble-drives more than Parker.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
