Play-In Tournament #9 vs #10: Spurs vs Pelicans

[daslicer]

I like the play in concept personally. honestly 7-8 seeds are hot garbage many more times than they’re not, and most 1-8 and 2-7 match ups are boring as anyway.

Why not e up the churn at the end of the playoff seeding?

For example, the Nets situation right now is intriguing to me not just because of who their first round match up might be but also because the teams behind them could legit knock them out even before they get there.

That's the main reason everybody is intrigued by it right now but would you be into it if it was 2 typical bottom feeders that nobody cared about? Probably not. The Nets are hated by a large number of fans so of course their play in game will draw in a lot of viewers. My prediction is the Nets will beat the Cavs easily and it will be a snooze fest.

[lmbebo]

I think play-in tournament should only happen if the teams are close in the standings instead of a tie breaker.

[007nites]

I think play-in tournament should only happen if the teams are close in the standings instead of a tie breaker.

It shouldn't happen at all. The only time it made sense was during the bubble when schedules were all messed up.

[daslicer]

It shouldn't happen at all. The only time it made sense was during the bubble when schedules were all messed up.

It’s all about greed. Unfortunately the NBA will keep this horrible idea since it’s extra tv money.

[Seventyniner]

It’s all about greed. Unfortunately the NBA will keep this horrible idea since it’s extra tv money.

Yup. It's the same reason MLB keeps expanding the playoffs.

[R. DeMurre]

I just noticed that New Orleans has a lot riding on this draft too-- they own the Lakers pick, which is currently slotted at #8, and they also have their own pick, currently slotted at #11, which is owed to Portland but protected 1-4 and 15-30. So if that Portland pick jumps up in the lottery drawing to the top 4, they keep it, and if they win the play in, they also keep it.

[xellos88330]

I am in the it and just win the whole damn thing at this point.

[slick'81]

I am in the it and just win the whole damn thing at this point.

I really want that 9th pick.However, if spurs can win these next two and make the post season it will be pretty impressive

[MultiTroll]

I just noticed that New Orleans has a lot riding on this draft too-- they own the Lakers pick, which is currently slotted at #8, and they also have their own pick, currently slotted at #11, which is owed to Portland but protected 1-4 and 15-30. So if that Portland pick jumps up in the lottery drawing to the top 4, they keep it, and if they win the play in, they also keep it.

At what point in time is the draft order set and games do not count? (for draft order purposes).
After the play in?
After the Finals?

[TDomination]

I am in the it and just win the whole damn thing at this point.

thats my sentiment

we're in it, lets win it.

i'd be stoked if we somehow make it into the playoffs.

i'm already happy knowing we made the play in and the lakers didn't lol

[Ariel]

At what point in time is the draft order set and games do not count? (for draft order purposes).
After the play in?
After the Finals?

After the play in the teams participating in the lottery are set (games stop counting for draft purposes).
May 17 the lottery takes place and the final order is set.

[Ariel]

I just noticed that New Orleans has a lot riding on this draft too-- they own the Lakers pick, which is currently slotted at #8, and they also have their own pick, currently slotted at #11, which is owed to Portland but protected 1-4 and 15-30. So if that Portland pick jumps up in the lottery drawing to the top 4, they keep it, and if they win the play in, they also keep it.

Ÿeah... they're the one team who should go at the play in hard with no regrets.
If they make the playoffs, they make a point (to their fan base, their core, Zion and the league), they still have a good lottery pick in the Lakers', and guarantee themselves a respectable draft slot while sending Portland the much worse 2025 Milwaukee first rounder instead (should be late 1st).
But if they don't, they still have a respectable chance at 1-4 with their own pick (10% chance at 1-4), so Portland can get a pick in the 11-14 range at best. Not that bad.
I didn't like the CJ McCollum trade at first glance, but could end up nicely for them.

PS: Just realized that they could still have TWO top 4 picks... a longshot, but man they'd be stacked should that happen...

[stnick2261]

At what point in time is the draft order set and games do not count? (for draft order purposes).
After the play in?
After the Finals?

After the play in the teams participating in the lottery are set (games stop counting for draft purposes).
May 17 the lottery takes place and the final order is set.

This is mostly true except the games stop counting for draft purposes BEFORE the play-in.

[exstatic]

This is mostly true except the games stop counting for draft purposes BEFORE the play-in.

If you play in, you lose your lottery slot, so the play in games very well could effect draft order. These games very well could count for draft purposes.

[CGD]

This is mostly true except the games stop counting for draft purposes BEFORE the play-in.

Could we get to brass tax on this? I see it both ways and not just on this forum. To me it would frustrate the purpose of the play-in concept to punish a play in team for earning a berth to the final 8 with a weaker pick.

If that is the rule, though, they should fix it (and even reward a 10th seed with some slightly better lottery odds). Making the play-in berth more valuable can also help with tanking.

[CGD]

It’s all about greed. Unfortunately the NBA will keep this horrible idea since it’s extra tv money.

Normally id agree, but how much extra money are 4 meh games going to generate really?

I think the real problem theyre trying to solve for is that 82 games is such a SLOG of a season and fans dont really care until about now any way. They are looking for ways to e it up. I know there have been talks of doing mini cups or tournaments during the season too, with aims of addressing the same issue which would be interesting ideas.

[CGD]

That's the main reason everybody is intrigued by it right now but would you be into it if it was 2 typical bottom feeders that nobody cared about? Probably not. The Nets are hated by a large number of fans so of course their play in game will draw in a lot of viewers. My prediction is the Nets will beat the Cavs easily and it will be a snooze fest.

The Nets scenario (i.e., star studded rosters with injured/incomplete/recently fully healthy squads) will be something like 15% of the situations. Those will be interesting - the MEM-GSG match up last year was a case in point.

In the other 85%, i think your are right in the sense that most of the time the cluster of teams in the 7-10 range in each conference are fairly interchangeable and in the same crappiness cohort. Take out the Nets and that's the situation in the East for example (and frankly same in West depending on what you think of the Clips). If 7 and 8 are typically -bird teams anyway, why not introduce an element of suspense to otherwise dull 1-8 and 2-7 match ups?

[Ariel]

This is mostly true except the games stop counting for draft purposes BEFORE the play-in.

No. There is a preliminary order before the play in, but the games still matter because if you make the playoffs, you're out of the lottery. Case in point: The Spurs finished with the 9 worst record. If they win 2 games, they go all the way out of the lottery and pick at 15. Also, Washington would rise from 10 to 9, NO from 11 to 10, and so on... That's much more of a drop off than winning a regular season game, don't you think?

[KingKev]

At what point in time is the draft order set and games do not count? (for draft order purposes).
After the play in?
After the Finals?

Information is free. Google it.

[MultiTroll]

Could we get to brass tax on this? I see it both ways and not just on this forum. To me it would frustrate the purpose of the play-in concept to punish a play in team for earning a berth to the final 8 with a weaker pick.

If that is the rule, though, they should fix it (and even reward a 10th seed with some slightly better lottery odds). Making the play-in berth more valuable can also help with tanking.

Right, the unjust punishment of say the Spurs making it to the 8 team playoff West only to have the draft pick spot keep getting worse and worse.
Other side a team with motive to tank if they feel they will just get blown away by the #1 seed anyways.
Cleveland and Minny have both looked very su ious to me the last month of the season. Get better pick spot by tanking the Play In? I could see it potentially happening.
Needs fixin.

[MultiTroll]

Information is free. Google it.

"How to stop attempting to become a control freak."
Got it for ya.

[stnick2261]

If you play in, you lose your lottery slot, so the play in games very well could effect draft order. These games very well could count for draft purposes.

No. There is a preliminary order before the play in, but the games still matter because if you make the playoffs, you're out of the lottery. Case in point: The Spurs finished with the 9 worst record. If they win 2 games, they go all the way out of the lottery and pick at 15. Also, Washington would rise from 10 to 9, NO from 11 to 10, and so on... That's much more of a drop off than winning a regular season game, don't you think?

That's why I said what I quoted was "mostly true".... Ariel made it seem like the play-in games counted for the overall record for the overall draft position.

The games stop counting for draft position BEFORE the play-in. AFTER the play-in, the lottery teams are set.

[stnick2261]

Could we get to brass tax on this? I see it both ways and not just on this forum. To me it would frustrate the purpose of the play-in concept to punish a play in team for earning a berth to the final 8 with a weaker pick.

If that is the rule, though, they should fix it (and even reward a 10th seed with some slightly better lottery odds). Making the play-in berth more valuable can also help with tanking.

My post wouldn't make sense if it's not included with the post I quoted.

[Ariel]

That's why I said what I quoted was "mostly true".... Ariel made it seem like the play-in games counted for the overall record for the overall draft position.

The games stop counting for draft position BEFORE the play-in. AFTER the play-in, the lottery teams are set.

Never did I say that game count keeps adding, I responded with the same wording as the original poster saying that "games count" as in "they matter".
I never figured anyone could reasonably give it such a convoluted interpretation, but yes, of course: REGULAR SEASON TOTAL GAMES WON ISN'T MODIFIED, BUT PLAY IN GAMES DO MATTER. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE TRUE ODDS BEFORE THE PLAY IN IS FINISHED. Clear enough?

[Thomas82]

Your example made me of how the Spurs won 50 games in 2010 and ended up with the 7th seed. Granted that team wasn't a le contender but I can't imagine how unfair it would have been back then had to play the young Thunder team that was the 8th seed. They probably lose that game since even back then I believe the Thunder was a bad match up for them.

Over the long run the play in will cause the disaster scenario you mentioned to play out more than once. It's really a dumb idea. A team that is 14-15 games below .500 should not be rewarded with getting into the playoffs based on 2 fluky games. It also hurts that team's development by creating an illusion that team is playoff ready when they are not.

I agree with every word of this.