Dejounte Murray Trade Rumors: Will He Be Traded to the Atlanta Hawks?

[rascal]

Murray's numbers went up in a significant way when White was traded. Based on White's production the Spurs should have gone in the toilet but they kept winning at better than expected clip

What kind of numbers will be put up being the man did a whole season. With a better Vassell and Primo and a PF for 15-25 minutes a game who is over 6-6. And Zollins the whole year instead of half the year with Eubanks.

Murray's numbers will go up, with or without Ayton or a John Collins. His value will go up by the trade deadline.

But to sell him for 2 atl picks in the 20s and a lotto protected Charlotte pick or whatever it is, and eating Gallo, that is straight trash and it's not edge lord to say so.

And to see that the deal may have gotten worse, that is: no Collins, we want Gallo instead AND his guarantee goes UP?!? This is like paying Toronto to take 5 million and Danny Green. These rumors get worse.

Trade Murray, fine, but get a good deal. He's not pulling a Kawhi and hiding when he's expiring

That's because in the last three months of the season teams were beginning to tank. Spurs played a lot of tanking teams in the last two months of the season and passed some teams in the standings and hurt their draft position.

[mo7888]

Next offseason his value will be lower than it is now because he'll be on the last year of his contract and likely won't be an allstar this year. I am looking at in a vacuum though because we all are...none of his have true inside info on what the FO tried to do or is even trying to do. We all base our opinions on our perceived premise and go from there. My premise is that they tried to add a higher level talent to play alongside DJ (I believe that talent was Zach Lavine) and when it became clear that wasn't going to happen then they did their due diligence on who might be available by trade this offseason and found exactly no one. From there I follow the logical path.... if you can't add better players to DJ and he's at or near peak value you have the two choices I listed above. Logically if there's no way to add the players you need to compete for championships then you have to find other paths to get there and since we are entering a draft like we haven't seen in some time with a generational talent then that path at least has a chance to pan out as opposed to our current path. It's just logical and pragmatic nothing more and this FO has always seemed to lean in to pragmatic decisions....

That's where I'm coming from....and it's totally cool if you or anyone else here sees it differently... my preferred path was always to build around DJ but, I've come to believe that's not possible anymore so...I have to consider other alternatives ...it's not personal against DJ because I think he's a very good player and has handled his business very professionally. You may see a path to add a better player to play alongside him....I don't think that deal's out there but I'm all ears if you can't paint that path in a picture...

Should have said " I'm all ears if you can paint that path in a picture "..... it's a little frustrating not being able to edit my posts..lol

[mo7888]

People fretting over details of any trade should note that, if any of these rumors are true, the Spurs have rejected several scenarios Atlanta has come up with. So the notion that they'll go cheap on getting rid of Murray is likely not true.

I agree..

[scott]

then tell me who are those teams? Cause I don't see the Rockets, OKC, Magic, Pistons, Pacers or Kings giving us a pick just because we need a top 6 pick. Maybe we should just give them Keldon while we're having a fire sale

Just spit-balling... but how about a 4-way deal with S&T Bridges to DET, Collins to CHA and DETs unprotected FRP in 2023 going to SA (amongst other things)? That seems to be the only pathway that gets a top-6 pick to SA.

[Ditty]

Spurs must really love some of the talent in this upcoming year’s draft. It’s a huge risk but to have a chance at Victor or Scoot would be really nice. Still think these rumors are BS.

[Chinook]

I'm not saying teams can't add a top banana to a team with a 2nd banana... I'm saying there's no deal on the horizon to do that in this scenario so we have two options 1) max him and pay for the privilege of being a perpetual play-in team or 2) cash in on his value to give us a shot at getting an elite talent to build around.

I don't think folks have ton of issue with understanding the logic of trading away a player to get assets back. I think some people might take issue with the idea that one of (and perhaps even the most important of) those assets being increased lottery odds. I know I'd be ecstatic if guys stepped up in the wake of a Murray trade to let the Spurs being a play-in team once again. I think looking at the last three years and thinking it's a sign the team has been stuck is superficial. The first year, the team was leveraged toward older players (I think that was the year of the failed Carroll trade, to put into perspective what the team's priorities were and bad, with the bubble being the only saving grace. The second year, the team had started to feature more younger players but still had older guys in prominent positions. This past year was almost exclusively young guys. So the team has remained within a standard deviation of average because the quality of their youth has increased. That to me is progress, and I don't think it would take a grand trade to move the Spurs into the 5-7 range in the conference -- it would just take an aggressive one.

That's why avoiding Collins in a potential Atlanta trade isn't really a plus for me. If the team gets him, the goal should be to either use him or get the most trade value for him. That might not be an immediate thing. It might entail a year or two on the club to find the right leverage. In the meantime, guys like Primo and Branham can develop with the guy who graded out as the best PnR roll man in the league. If the Spurs' actual path to development is for someone like Primo to met the lofty expectations set for him, then getting him a partner who will enhance rather than conflict with him makes the most sense possible.

I think making a trade with the assumption that getting a guaranteed lotto pick for 2023 is untenable. I can't think of a single team that would pursue Murray that would do that. Any team that wants him is good enough to not convey good if any lotto odds after adding him. Very few teams own the unprotected 2023 picks of other clubs. I think it might just be Brooklyn, Houston, OKC and Houston. Anyone else is giving you a protected pick or a pick en bered by Murray's addition. If the goal is to increase 2023 odds, it's not looking good. They'd have much better odds if they take future unprotected picks and punt on the 2023 NBA draft. Even if those picks end up conveying ala OKC and NOP this year, you can argue that simply having lesser immediate value would have been the superior play.

Unfortunately, the Spurs can extend Murray this season due to them dragging their feet four years ago. His anniversary is after the start to next season, so he has to wait until the next year. That ruins the idea of renegotiating and extending his contract as a way to save long-term money. It takes some security out of keeping him, though I guess it also frees up cap space from even the thought of saving it. I don't think the win-now trade is on the horizon. I think they're another year of asset acquisition/development from putting together a legit superstar package that doesn't hamper the team. I really hope they intend to take to Lavine and look into acquiring Collins or another PF. I'd prefer for them to be opportunistic buyers than sellers right now.

[objective]

That's because in the last three months of the season teams were beginning to tank. Spurs played a lot of tanking teams in the last two months of the season and passed some teams in the standings and hurt their draft position.

Yet the Spurs had their own issues. Primo forced to pay and he wasn't any good. Walker missing time. Dejounte missing time on his own. Covid. Zollins remembering how to run and jump.

Teams tanked, but the Spurs as a team should have been much worse.

[Ditty]

It’s going to be tough competing with Luka, Zion and Morant and all the young talent in Houston in a few years just in the division. We need all the fire power we need. We might be the most all around young talented team if we get a franchise player this upcoming draft.

[scott]

, just before this past season everyone thought Murray, Poeltl, and White had zero value and yet their value is high now.

This is looking too much at things in a vacuum.

Remembering back to the good ol' days when this forum thought we should give Murray plus a zillion picks for Ben in' Simmons

[BackHome]

The love for Simmons truly showed me how many people just don't know basketball

[Dejounte]

Remembering back to the good ol' days when this forum thought we should give Murray plus a zillion picks for Ben in' Simmons

Same folks who were trigger happy then are trigger happy now.

[BackHome]

Most Knick fans want Brunson over Murray.

That's not true....

[mo7888]

I don't think folks have ton of issue with understanding the logic of trading away a player to get assets back. I think some people might take issue with the idea that one of (and perhaps even the most important of) those assets being increased lottery odds. I know I'd be ecstatic if guys stepped up in the wake of a Murray trade to let the Spurs being a play-in team once again. I think looking at the last three years and thinking it's a sign the team has been stuck is superficial. The first year, the team was leveraged toward older players (I think that was the year of the failed Carroll trade, to put into perspective what the team's priorities were and bad, with the bubble being the only saving grace. The second year, the team had started to feature more younger players but still had older guys in prominent positions. This past year was almost exclusively young guys. So the team has remained within a standard deviation of average because the quality of their youth has increased. That to me is progress, and I don't think it would take a grand trade to move the Spurs into the 5-7 range in the conference -- it would just take an aggressive one.

That's why avoiding Collins in a potential Atlanta trade isn't really a plus for me. If the team gets him, the goal should be to either use him or get the most trade value for him. That might not be an immediate thing. It might entail a year or two on the club to find the right leverage. In the meantime, guys like Primo and Branham can develop with the guy who graded out as the best PnR roll man in the league. If the Spurs' actual path to development is for someone like Primo to met the lofty expectations set for him, then getting him a partner who will enhance rather than conflict with him makes the most sense possible.

I think making a trade with the assumption that getting a guaranteed lotto pick for 2023 is untenable. I can't think of a single team that would pursue Murray that would do that. Any team that wants him is good enough to not convey good if any lotto odds after adding him. Very few teams own the unprotected 2023 picks of other clubs. I think it might just be Brooklyn, Houston, OKC and Houston. Anyone else is giving you a protected pick or a pick en bered by Murray's addition. If the goal is to increase 2023 odds, it's not looking good. They'd have much better odds if they take future unprotected picks and punt on the 2023 NBA draft. Even if those picks end up conveying ala OKC and NOP this year, you can argue that simply having lesser immediate value would have been the superior play.

Unfortunately, the Spurs can extend Murray this season due to them dragging their feet four years ago. His anniversary is after the start to next season, so he has to wait until the next year. That ruins the idea of renegotiating and extending his contract as a way to save long-term money. It takes some security out of keeping him, though I guess it also frees up cap space from even the thought of saving it. I don't think the win-now trade is on the horizon. I think they're another year of asset acquisition/development from putting together a legit superstar package that doesn't hamper the team. I really hope they intend to take to Lavine and look into acquiring Collins or another PF. I'd prefer for them to be opportunistic buyers than sellers right now.

I understand your view on team building and you've expressed it for several years now and for the most part we've followed it. I'm not saying the team is listening to you per se just that your view has been their view or close to it. I'm not even opposed to it if I could see a way to improve to the point that we are legitimately competing for championships. I'm just not interested in a team who's goal is to be the 5th seed in the west if everything goes our way. I also am factoring in that this is a talented draft at the top that we don't see very often. I realize you don't don't follow draft intel very much and it's not your preferred interest but, this draft has a generational talent at the top and 5 more players rated above Banchero in it. If we don't have a path to add better players to DJ I think the smart move is to trade him away and get as many bites at the apple in this draft as possible and tank. You've never heard me argue for tanking before and its mostly because we haven't seen a draft like this in the years I've been on this board. We can't guarantee that we'll get the 1st pick but we can guarantee that we get a player more talented than the 1st pick in the 2022 draft.

As for Lavine, I think they wanted to add him to DJ but that it's off the table now and there's no path left to take to find a better player to put alongside DJ...I think that was always their preferred option but they're looking at other options now since Plan A is washing out.

[Chinook]

Murray's numbers went up in a significant way when White was traded. Based on White's production the Spurs should have gone in the toilet but they kept winning at better than expected clip

What kind of numbers will be put up being the man did a whole season. With a better Vassell and Primo and a PF for 15-25 minutes a game who is over 6-6. And Zollins the whole year instead of half the year with Eubanks.

Murray's numbers will go up, with or without Ayton or a John Collins. His value will go up by the trade deadline.

But to sell him for 2 atl picks in the 20s and a lotto protected Charlotte pick or whatever it is, and eating Gallo, that is straight trash and it's not edge lord to say so.

And to see that the deal may have gotten worse, that is: no Collins, we want Gallo instead AND his guarantee goes UP?!? This is like paying Toronto to take 5 million and Danny Green. These rumors get worse.

Trade Murray, fine, but get a good deal. He's not pulling a Kawhi and hiding when he's expiring

People don't remember the Leonard trade era if they think the rumors were better than the result. The rumors had SA giving a pick to Toronto, and they had the Lakers demanding Murray in addition to Kawhi. Why people are believing an ATL reporter, who isn't even saying that's the entire trade in the first place is beyond me. It's not edgelord to think that deal is bad; it's edgelord to assume PATFO doesn't value Murray after everything we hear about them being that they "overplay their hands" by not being willing to take for their pieces. The Spurs are usually anti-trade, and that means they have a different kind of leverage than many teams do. When they say "No deal," they mean it, and that means teams like Boston have to come correct and potentially offer that extra swap. That is the reality of the Spurs trade history. The idea that the Spurs get bent over is the edgelord reframing.

The Spurs aren't going to trade Murray for a bad deal unless DeJounte is doing Kawhi stuff behind the scenes. All we've heard from the Spurs' side is that they wanted basically no protections on their picks in addition to a young player. ATL didn't want to meet that price, and the deal didn't happen. Now Collins is out of the deal, and people assume that must mean the Spurs are taking less rather than it meaning the Hawks can no longer turn Collins into the type of flagship asset the Spurs requested in addition to the pick. Gallo is expiring ballast akin to what the Spurs were expected to get back from the Collins reroute. He's not supposed to be valuable. If Collins isn't providing value anymore, and the Spurs are still playing hardball, it means Atlanta is trying to protect their top assets from being traded. If a trade does go down, I think we'll find out that the Hawks are giving up one or two of them. These leaks seem to indicated they're desperate and don't have another path toward easy improvement the Spurs have a much better path toward moving Murray, since unlike with Kawhi, DeJounte isn't threatening every other team. And if all this happens, and no one blinks, the Spurs keep Murray for another year.

[FkLA]

White > Instagram Baller imo

[slick'81]

Remembering back to the good ol' days when this forum thought we should give Murray plus a zillion picks for Ben in' Simmons

tbf Murray and the beginning of last season was nowhere where he is now. We knew sixers wouldnt do it and they didn't. Their loss

[objective]

I ended up as anti Simmons. And that was before Murray played well beyond my expectations

[Uriel]

I’m having trouble understanding the logic of trading Murray. The way I see it, you use the draft to find all-stars, and once you find these all-stars, you build around them by finding other all-stars to pair with them.

Why then would you trade the all-stars you’ve already found for more draft picks to instigate process all over again? Is this going to be a never ending cycle?

[slick'81]

I ended up as anti Simmons. And that was before Murray played well beyond my expectations

spurs were willing and sixers weren't. Things changed quickly

[mo7888]

I’m having trouble understanding the logic of trading Murray. The way I see it, you use the draft to find all-stars, and once you find these all-stars, you build around them by finding other all-stars to pair with them.

Why then would you trade the all-stars you’ve already found for more draft picks to instigate process all over again? Is this going to be a never ending cycle?

You only do it if you can't find Allstars to pair with them...

[slick'81]

I’m having trouble understanding the logic of trading Murray. The way I see it, you use the draft to find all-stars, and once you find these all-stars, you build around them by finding other all-stars to pair with them.

Why then would you trade the all-stars you’ve already found for more draft picks to instigate process all over again? Is this going to be a never ending cycle?

[Uriel]

Having said that, if the team is able to land an unprotected pick in the 2023 draft from a lottery bound team, thereby increasing its chances of landing Wenbanyama, I believe it will be worth it. If this trade ultimately becomes the reason the team is able to select him, it will go down as one of the best decisions in Spurs history.

[DesignatedT]

Dejounte is going to want a max or near max deal after next season…. $45M/yr or whatever it is these days. Or he could play out the next two seasons and walk. Fans around here always ing that PATFO waits to long and thus gets diminished returns and now.. it looks like they’re entertaining the idea of getting ahead of it this time and people are still ing lol.

[objective]

People don't remember the Leonard trade era if they think the rumors were better than the result. The rumors had SA giving a pick to Toronto, and they had the Lakers demanding Murray in addition to Kawhi. Why people are believing an ATL reporter, who isn't even saying that's the entire trade in the first place is beyond me. It's not edgelord to think that deal is bad; it's edgelord to assume PATFO doesn't value Murray after everything we hear about them being that they "overplay their hands" by not being willing to take for their pieces. The Spurs are usually anti-trade, and that means they have a different kind of leverage than many teams do. When they say "No deal," they mean it, and that means teams like Boston have to come correct and potentially offer that extra swap. That is the reality of the Spurs trade history. The idea that the Spurs get bent over is the edgelord reframing.

The Spurs aren't going to trade Murray for a bad deal unless DeJounte is doing Kawhi stuff behind the scenes. All we've heard from the Spurs' side is that they wanted basically no protections on their picks in addition to a young player. ATL didn't want to meet that price, and the deal didn't happen. Now Collins is out of the deal, and people assume that must mean the Spurs are taking less rather than it meaning the Hawks can no longer turn Collins into the type of flagship asset the Spurs requested in addition to the pick. Gallo is expiring ballast akin to what the Spurs were expected to get back from the Collins reroute. He's not supposed to be valuable. If Collins isn't providing value anymore, and the Spurs are still playing hardball, it means Atlanta is trying to protect their top assets from being traded. If a trade does go down, I think we'll find out that the Hawks are giving up one or two of them. These leaks seem to indicated they're desperate and don't have another path toward easy improvement the Spurs have a much better path toward moving Murray, since unlike with Kawhi, DeJounte isn't threatening every other team. And if all this happens, and no one blinks, the Spurs keep Murray for another year.

Simply disgusting the news and rumors of the day on a message board is no vice

It's very simple.

Rumor of deal: reaction: "That sounds bad. I don't like that."

Opposite reaction: "I hate discussion on discussion boards!"

It doesn't have to be confirmed or official to talk about things and what the result of possible moves could be.

[objective]

spurs were willing and sixers weren't. Things changed quickly

Well, then they would have been wrong if they would have done the deal.

There I go again, being edgy by discussing a thing that never even happened.