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  1. #26
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I think it gets magnified with Chip in the coaching staff.
    For sure. I don't understand why people expect the sole presence of Chip to magically alter or improve every single one of our players' shooting touches. It's become to the point where people outright dismiss the idea that getting a player who has a bad shooting form is a negative, because "oh, just lock him up with Chip and he'll fix it right up". Not realistic. It also doesn't take into account how much work is actually required to modify something as fundamentally mechanic (and learned through innumerable repe ions) as a shooting motion, with people expecting players like Jakob to "just improve" or "just get in the gym!!", and it's exacerbated after a bad shooting night. On that topic... I was gonna make a separate comment, but what gives.



    Here's Jakob's shooting motion for one of last night's FTs. I tried to find footage of him shooting from a couple years ago, but it's incredibly hard to find full game highlights of his (unsurprising as he's a defense-first roleplayer) and especially ones that feature him shooting free throws. Anyways. You can see that his right hand has the motion down, and he brings the ball down with both his hands, but at the moment of shooting, his left hand inexplicably goes off to the side and stops participating in the motion. This leads to a really high variance on the shots, which is exactly what we've been seeing. The rest of his shooting form and posture don't look bad whatsoever:



    Set feet, good posture, follow-through after the shot. All normal aspects of the motion are there, except for the guiding off-hand. It's such a ridiculously noticeable mistake that I really can't believe Chip is watching him shoot like that at practices, and doesn't take him aside to beat that habit out of him... Anyways, I'm expecting his form to keep on changing, and hopefully "fixing" his FTs doesn't hinder his floater shooting, because he's extremely good on those shots. We'll have to wait until the off-season to see whether he gets noticeably better.

  2. #27
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Poeltl is just the easiest target, isn't he?

    On a night when he was one of the best players, people still find a way to complain.
    Free throws matter, fukin . He isn't shaq, bum ass needs to learn how to make a shot or he can gtfo.

  3. #28
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    I’m surprised no one is clamoring for Metu. I mean, he looked way better on the Kings. Not great, and still sort of a moron, and 2nd stringer at best, but his outside shot looked honest. Maybe he’s comfortable being back in Cali. But it’s annoying that his potential was never realized on the Spurs. Not a huge issue. But he could help the team in theory. In practice, another player to steal minutes from Luka perhaps, sure. Still.

    i always thought -and still do

    that Metu should have stayed and Ewwwbanks should have gone-

    but ...

  4. #29
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Free throws matter, fukin . He isn't shaq, bum ass needs to learn how to make a shot or he can gtfo.
    Love when I trigger your dumbass

  5. #30
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    For sure. I don't understand why people expect the sole presence of Chip to magically alter or improve every single one of our players' shooting touches. It's become to the point where people outright dismiss the idea that getting a player who has a bad shooting form is a negative, because "oh, just lock him up with Chip and he'll fix it right up". Not realistic. It also doesn't take into account how much work is actually required to modify something as fundamentally mechanic (and learned through innumerable repe ions) as a shooting motion, with people expecting players like Jakob to "just improve" or "just get in the gym!!", and it's exacerbated after a bad shooting night. On that topic... I was gonna make a separate comment, but what gives.



    Here's Jakob's shooting motion for one of last night's FTs. I tried to find footage of him shooting from a couple years ago, but it's incredibly hard to find full game highlights of his (unsurprising as he's a defense-first roleplayer) and especially ones that feature him shooting free throws. Anyways. You can see that his right hand has the motion down, and he brings the ball down with both his hands, but at the moment of shooting, his left hand inexplicably goes off to the side and stops participating in the motion. This leads to a really high variance on the shots, which is exactly what we've been seeing. The rest of his shooting form and posture don't look bad whatsoever:



    Set feet, good posture, follow-through after the shot. All normal aspects of the motion are there, except for the guiding off-hand. It's such a ridiculously noticeable mistake that I really can't believe Chip is watching him shoot like that at practices, and doesn't take him aside to beat that habit out of him... Anyways, I'm expecting his form to keep on changing, and hopefully "fixing" his FTs doesn't hinder his floater shooting, because he's extremely good on those shots. We'll have to wait until the off-season to see whether he gets noticeably better.
    Thanks bruh. I also see DJ and Fox maybe betting that Poeltl doesn't make it and who gets the rebound? And Metu noticeably chuckling in the bench?

    But great observation. His left hand prematurely separating makes this more of a one-handed shot

  6. #31
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    i always thought -and still do

    that Metu should have stayed and Ewwwbanks should have gone-

    but ...
    Nah man. Ewwbanks bring more energy than Metu EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, not just playing against a former team. And did you see how many silly things Metu does? His first play, I think he forcibly took a rebound from Fox's hands. I remember because I thought that was silly.

  7. #32
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Love when I trigger your dumbass
    Yeah ok, got.

  8. #33
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    I don't his hand is coming off early. It looks more like the ball stays in contact with palm for a really long time rather than coming off his fingers, so he has no control where it actually goes.


    And I've always been of the mind that Metu never got a fair look. He would allow us to play two bigs by being either a small ball 5 or stretch 4..

  9. #34
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Haha okay head

  10. #35
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    For sure. I don't understand why people expect the sole presence of Chip to magically alter or improve every single one of our players' shooting touches. It's become to the point where people outright dismiss the idea that getting a player who has a bad shooting form is a negative, because "oh, just lock him up with Chip and he'll fix it right up". Not realistic. It also doesn't take into account how much work is actually required to modify something as fundamentally mechanic (and learned through innumerable repe ions) as a shooting motion, with people expecting players like Jakob to "just improve" or "just get in the gym!!", and it's exacerbated after a bad shooting night. On that topic... I was gonna make a separate comment, but what gives.



    Here's Jakob's shooting motion for one of last night's FTs. I tried to find footage of him shooting from a couple years ago, but it's incredibly hard to find full game highlights of his (unsurprising as he's a defense-first roleplayer) and especially ones that feature him shooting free throws. Anyways. You can see that his right hand has the motion down, and he brings the ball down with both his hands, but at the moment of shooting, his left hand inexplicably goes off to the side and stops participating in the motion. This leads to a really high variance on the shots, which is exactly what we've been seeing. The rest of his shooting form and posture don't look bad whatsoever:



    Set feet, good posture, follow-through after the shot. All normal aspects of the motion are there, except for the guiding off-hand. It's such a ridiculously noticeable mistake that I really can't believe Chip is watching him shoot like that at practices, and doesn't take him aside to beat that habit out of him... Anyways, I'm expecting his form to keep on changing, and hopefully "fixing" his FTs doesn't hinder his floater shooting, because he's extremely good on those shots. We'll have to wait until the off-season to see whether he gets noticeably better.
    Nice work breaking down the images.

    Here's my interpretation of what is going on with Yak and Chip. From prior stories of how Chip fixed Parker's shot, Chip started with what Parker was comfortable with, which was sort of his teardrop/push shot, and tried to utilize that motion as a way to evolve towards an actual jump shot.

    I'm just speculating on a hypothesis here, but my guess is that Chip is trying to the same approach with Yak, because that one handed push is the only shot he normally tries in a game, though obviously from a few feet out. A further guess is that Yak is so bad at moving beyond this stage that Chip still has him trying to use his natural push shot while shooting free throws. Anyway, that's my vague theory. I think it would be malpractice if Chip wasn't aware of how he shoots them one-handed.

  11. #36
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    For sure. I don't understand why people expect the sole presence of Chip to magically alter or improve every single one of our players' shooting touches. It's become to the point where people outright dismiss the idea that getting a player who has a bad shooting form is a negative, because "oh, just lock him up with Chip and he'll fix it right up". Not realistic. It also doesn't take into account how much work is actually required to modify something as fundamentally mechanic (and learned through innumerable repe ions) as a shooting motion, with people expecting players like Jakob to "just improve" or "just get in the gym!!", and it's exacerbated after a bad shooting night. On that topic... I was gonna make a separate comment, but what gives.



    Here's Jakob's shooting motion for one of last night's FTs. I tried to find footage of him shooting from a couple years ago, but it's incredibly hard to find full game highlights of his (unsurprising as he's a defense-first roleplayer) and especially ones that feature him shooting free throws. Anyways. You can see that his right hand has the motion down, and he brings the ball down with both his hands, but at the moment of shooting, his left hand inexplicably goes off to the side and stops participating in the motion. This leads to a really high variance on the shots, which is exactly what we've been seeing. The rest of his shooting form and posture don't look bad whatsoever:



    Set feet, good posture, follow-through after the shot. All normal aspects of the motion are there, except for the guiding off-hand. It's such a ridiculously noticeable mistake that I really can't believe Chip is watching him shoot like that at practices, and doesn't take him aside to beat that habit out of him... Anyways, I'm expecting his form to keep on changing, and hopefully "fixing" his FTs doesn't hinder his floater shooting, because he's extremely good on those shots. We'll have to wait until the off-season to see whether he gets noticeably better.
    I think his main problem is that he gets too low and his up movement is too shaky for a stable shot. Sometimes he lifts his heels, the left hand is also part of this, but probably not the main reason.

    for comparision a game from 2017: https://youtu.be/YVZPB_MF09o (47s mark)
    He didn’t get so low and shot 5/7 or something in the game.

  12. #37
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    i always thought -and still do

    that Metu should have stayed and Ewwwbanks should have gone-

    but ...
    If Metu can continue to hit from the top of the key he will stay in the league for a while at least. But with the Spurs he sucked and I can't say otherwise. But yeah, it would be nice to have a center who can shoot. We do but now he's injured.

  13. #38
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    I found a clip with some ft when he played for the Utes and shot 69%. This proves me wrong about getting too low, but...

    https://youtu.be/oBP2yt0LG8Y



    ...Looking way more fluid and confident.
    Last edited by ragas; 04-01-2021 at 02:41 PM.

  14. #39
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    The Pop quote is confusing when taken in printed/twittered context without the full verbal exchange.

    1:40 mark of video.
    Tom stumbles over his words and references Drew Eubanks before changing it to Jakob midway through the question which makes it even worse.

    The very next line Pop states too ,“He works hard all the time.”

    It’s a weird exchange.
    Pop is clearly not happy through the short interview - (Dieng injury, having to take Poeltl out because of the FT issues late in games, defensive issues - though improved from last game) and can’t help feel that Pop was trying to compliment Jakob’s consistent work ethic - (which is high, yet hasn’t seen the results on the court) rather than disparage him and say that he doesn’t practice the FTs.

  15. #40
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    You can see that his right hand has the motion down, and he brings the ball down with both his hands, but at the moment of shooting, his left hand inexplicably goes off to the side and stops participating in the motion. This leads to a really high variance on the shots, which is exactly what we've been seeing.
    Eh, no. That's the correct way to shoot a basketball. Watch 99% of players shoot in slow motion and you will notice the guide hand is off the ball at the time of release. Poeltl's release of his guide hand is early but that's by design. He doesn't need his guide hand (because, due to his big hands, he can control the ball with one hand) and removing it early helps to simplify his mechanics. That's what Chip wants him to him to do.

    As, Dex mentioned, it's just in his head. He's thinking too much about his mechanics. Chip has worked with Poeltl to simplify his mechanics as much as possible but obviously the results aren't there yet. I think he'll get there because he legitimately has good touch.

    Mechanically, the only issue Poeltl can suffer from is the timing of his knee bend. Sometimes his knees will be all the way straight before he has released his shot, which causes his free throw to be short. But this issue was more prevalent earlier in the season. I didn't rewatch his two airballs last night but I didn't see an issue with his knee bend while watching it live.

  16. #41
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    If Metu can continue to hit from the top of the key he will stay in the league for a while at least. But with the Spurs he sucked and I can't say otherwise. But yeah, it would be nice to have a center who can shoot. We do but now he's injured.

    i watched him in g league and college videos- he can hit those shots consistently

    but he never got a chance with the spurs-pop would give him garbage time and/or yank him immediately after a few seconds of play if he made a miscue

    just watch his career

  17. #42
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    Nah man. Ewwbanks bring more energy than Metu EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, not just playing against a former team. And did you see how many silly things Metu does? His first play, I think he forcibly took a rebound from Fox's hands. I remember because I thought that was silly.
    had the spurs allowed him to play-

    anyone can see he has the tools - where ewwwbanks is just a plain scrub

    just watch their careers

  18. #43
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I found a clip with some ft when he played for the Utes and shot 69%. This proves me wrong about getting too low, but...

    https://youtu.be/oBP2yt0LG8Y ni



    ...Looking way more fluid and confident.
    Damn. He had both post ups and free throws. What happened? And his FT’s were excellent form

  19. #44
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    Damn. He had both post ups and free throws. What happened? And his FT’s were excellent form
    yes, it’s stunning when you watch his college games and you get an understanding why he was drafted 9th. Like I said, he even hit 3ps for our National Team when he was younger

  20. #45
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    The issue with Poeltl shooting so bad is most likely that his hands are too big. People with big hands have problems shooting because it’s hard for them to grab the ball in a way that there is this little gap between palm and ball that you need to have to get a proper release. This was the same reason with nephew who has huge hands also and couldn’t shoot in college. What I don’t understand is why he was working on corner 3s in the offseason when he can’t shoot FTs

  21. #46
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    The issue with Poeltl shooting so bad is most likely that his hands are too big. People with big hands have problems shooting because it’s hard for them to grab the ball in a way that there is this little gap between palm and ball that you need to have to get a proper release. This was the same reason with nephew who has huge hands also and couldn’t shoot in college. What I don’t understand is why he was working on corner 3s in the offseason when he can’t shoot FTs
    Boban is a career 77% FT shooter tbh

  22. #47
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Boban is a career 77% FT shooter tbh
    that‘s not the point. I just said it’s more difficult for people with big hands to become good shooters, not that it’s impossible. Embiid can shoot too.

  23. #48
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    that‘s not the point. I just said it’s more difficult for people with big hands to become good shooters, not that it’s impossible. Embiid can shoot too.
    His issue is 99% mental tbh. I bet he's a 90% FT shooter during practice. I'd be thrilled if he can eventually hover at 60%+ tbh.

  24. #49
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    His issue is 99% mental tbh. I bet he's a 90% FT shooter during practice. I'd be thrilled if he can eventually hover at 60%+ tbh.
    I highly doubt that he ever hit 9 out of 10 free throws ever in his life

  25. #50
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    Thanks bruh. I also see DJ and Fox maybe betting that Poeltl doesn't make it and who gets the rebound? And Metu noticeably chuckling in the bench?

    But great observation. His left hand prematurely separating makes this more of a one-handed shot
    wtf if Metu laughing about; his whole game is laughable.

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