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  1. #101
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    class/economics ties into it as well. black people are significantly more likely to be in poverty. poverty correlates quick well with property and violent crimes, more policing in those areas, etc etc. even if it cant be demonstrated that a cop is more prone to excessive force when dealing with a black suspect, there's still no doubt that the black community is disproportionately impacted by bad policing, in general
    Indeed. The big right talking point is citing those brutality stats and then pointing out there really isn't a disproportionate amount of police brutality against blacks because they find themselves in many more police encounters, which is true. But they never ask "why" they find themselves in more police encounters. If you do, you'll get a quasi-bigoted response of, "They need to fix their culture!"

    Most controversially, he says a "black culture of violence" explains much of the crime rise: "[T]he black migration to cities, especially the big cities of the North, brought a culture of violence to the urban landscape. The effects of migration by a group with historically high levels of violence were compounded by the increase in young males within the African American population."

    The thesis isn’t totally new. Conservatives, in particular, have long argued that culture contributes to the massive crime and violence problem seen in inner-city black communities. But Latzer offers a fairly prominent, scholarly example of this argument.
    Nonsense, of course. It's poverty. Always is. Look at how the murder rate ed in the Us following our biggest immigration year ever through Ellis Island (1907):

    https://slate.com/business/2013/05/u...a-century.html

    And kept going up and up, even before prohibition. Of course we saw the biggest influx of Southern Europeans and Irish during that time. Guess Italians and Irish need to "fix their culture."

  2. #102
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Maybe wAshington swamp

  3. #103
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Maybe wAshington swamp
    Well it never got drained so there's that

  4. #104
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    The non-fringe aspects of the movement are fine, sticking to reforming law enforcement in order to eliminate police brutality. The "cancel culture" fringe aspects of the movement are idiotic and counterproductive, though. No, I'm not committing a in' "microaggression" because I asked a tall black dude if he played basketball. I asked him because he was tall. That's a core issue with the more fringe elements of BLM and any other SJW movements, interpreting everything through the lens of race. I'm a bleeding heart, but I also abhor political correctness as a way to police speech. Every Spurstalker should be against political correctness, since this is why we came to this site, to call each other bean3rs, call certain basketball play styles "monkeyball," joke about the non-success of black coaches and black quarterbacks, call people honkies and white trash (Avante's family), stinky Pakis, and what have you.

    I also never really liked the catch phrase because I knew how the right would spin it and it also obscures the fact that many other races are victims of police brutality. The stats actually show police brutality is rather proportional. But I don't doubt cops racially profile blacks at a higher proportion.
    Anybody that isn't a piece of would want less police brutality/killings. That aspect of the movement is fine.

    I'm just not a fan of half truths and lack of accountability. There's a lot wrong with black culture that gets blamed on others. Absentee fathers, being the majority in prison, glorifying being hood, objectifying women, putting down respectable black people for being "too white". Police reform isn't going to change most of that. And yeah, this level of political correctness is just dumb. If I said any of those things publicly, even though they're all true, I'd be labeled a racist. The other day I was told told I hate black people because I said something along the lines of "Floyd had a lengthy criminal record, was high, and resisted arrest after committing a crime but he was still needlessly murdered". Apparently I have to think Floyd was a saint who was needlessly murdered. I find completely insane that that cop and chief in Atlanta had their careers destroyed just because the thug with the taser had dark skin.

    And yeah, it does chap my ass a little that apparently black people matter more than other minorities.

  5. #105
    #FreeDerp Monostradamus's Avatar
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    Anybody that isn't a piece of would want less police brutality/killings. That aspect of the movement is fine.

    I'm just not a fan of half truths and lack of accountability. There's a lot wrong with black culture that gets blamed on others. Absentee fathers, being the majority in prison, glorifying being hood, objectifying women, putting down respectable black people for being "too white". Police reform isn't going to change most of that. And yeah, this level of political correctness is just dumb. If I said any of those things publicly, even though they're all true, I'd be labeled a racist. The other day I was told told I hate black people because I said something along the lines of "Floyd had a lengthy criminal record, was high, and resisted arrest after committing a crime but he was still needlessly murdered". Apparently I have to think Floyd was a saint who was needlessly murdered. I find completely insane that that cop and chief in Atlanta had their careers destroyed just because the thug with the taser had dark skin.

    And yeah, it does chap my ass a little that apparently black people matter more than other minorities.
    You’re definitely gonna have a daughter who gets knocked up by a black guy

  6. #106
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    FkLA's shtick is an actual example of the oppression olympics that people on the right mock
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  7. #107
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    The non-fringe aspects of the movement are fine, sticking to reforming law enforcement in order to eliminate police brutality. The "cancel culture" fringe aspects of the movement are idiotic and counterproductive, though. No, I'm not committing a in' "microaggression" because I asked a tall black dude if he played basketball. I asked him because he was tall. That's a core issue with the more fringe elements of BLM and any other SJW movements, interpreting everything through the lens of race. I'm a bleeding heart, but I also abhor political correctness as a way to police speech. Every Spurstalker should be against political correctness, since this is why we came to this site, to call each other bean3rs, call certain basketball play styles "monkeyball," joke about the non-success of black coaches and black quarterbacks, call people honkies and white trash (Avante's family), stinky Pakis, and what have you.
    Sup got?

  8. #108
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    And yeah, it does chap my ass a little that apparently black people matter more than other minorities.
    The fact black people are here because their ancestors were literally chained to slave ships and brought here involuntarily while other minorities are here because their ancestors moved here for a “better life” is always going to give blacks a leg up in the victim olympics. Sorry but that’s just how it is.

    I don’t necessarily disagree with you on other issues with black culture though. The militant BLM supporters should also be taking some of their frustration out on older black folk for carrying Joe Biden, one of the architects of police brutality against black people, to a primary victory.

  9. #109
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The fact black people are here because their ancestors were literally chained to slave ships and brought here involuntarily while other minorities are here because their ancestors moved here for a “better life” is always going to give blacks a leg up in the victim olympics. Sorry but that’s just how it is.

    I don’t necessarily disagree with you on other issues with black culture though. The militant BLM supporters should also be taking some of their frustration out on older black folk for carrying Joe Biden, one of the architects of police brutality against black people, to a primary victory.
    Well said. These thing will happen though, but it'll take time. Look at Florida's Cubans for an example. They always have been a solid voting block for republicans, due to being handed insta-amnesty since Reagan, but the 2nd or 3rd generation kid is starting to break off from that.

  10. #110
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    The fact black people are here because their ancestors were literally chained to slave ships and brought here involuntarily while other minorities are here because their ancestors moved here for a “better life” is always going to give blacks a leg up in the victim olympics. Sorry but that’s just how it is.

    I don’t necessarily disagree with you on other issues with black culture though. The militant BLM supporters should also be taking some of their frustration out on older black folk for carrying Joe Biden, one of the architects of police brutality against black people, to a primary victory.
    One of the issues with some in the BLM movement (I'm not going to define BLM as having a single unified vision. The group seems rather splintered in "what they want") is indeed their consistency of who they target and "cancel." Many Dem/Lib politicians/entertainers are "off limits," but so are many so-called "leaders" in the African American community, even figures important to the BLM movement. I think Kaepernick is a huge phony. White-washed black guy who started appropriating the fro and militant "black power" stance when it was most convenient. Okay, he got "woke." We'll give him a break. But then the heel partners up with Nike . Harlem always joked about how Nike and Jordan have gotten more people killed in the black community than anything else

    Here's a company that was a known exploiter of child labor for decades and specifically targeted urban communities with their products they knew they couldn't afford. Yeah, how do you think is going to turn out during the crack epidemic and such? And why do any black people still pay attention to what Al Sharpton has to say?

  11. #111
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Good stuff, fellas....minus the awkward

    Anyway, don’t change the name. An NFL team naming themselves Redskins from the very beginning is a show of honor. It’s the best a bunch of white rich guys could agree on back then. The Cleveland Indians....keep it for Christ sake or be selective.

    Shawnee Apache Sioux Choctaw....and on.

    Most of the people ing about this will probably about the Cleveland browns.

  12. #112
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    The fact black people are here because their ancestors were literally chained to slave ships and brought here involuntarily while other minorities are here because their ancestors moved here for a “better life” is always going to give blacks a leg up in the victim olympics. Sorry but that’s just how it is.
    Current state of Africa should make them more grateful (than other migrants) but the typical American black never steps foot on African soil

  13. #113
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    One of the issues with some in the BLM movement (I'm not going to define BLM as having a single unified vision. The group seems rather splintered in "what they want") is indeed their consistency of who they target and "cancel." Many Dem/Lib politicians/entertainers are "off limits," but so are many so-called "leaders" in the African American community, even figures important to the BLM movement. I think Kaepernick is a huge phony. White-washed black guy who started appropriating the fro and militant "black power" stance when it was most convenient. Okay, he got "woke." We'll give him a break. But then the heel partners up with Nike . Harlem always joked about how Nike and Jordan have gotten more people killed in the black community than anything else

    Here's a company that was a known exploiter of child labor for decades and specifically targeted urban communities with their products they knew they couldn't afford. Yeah, how do you think is going to turn out during the crack epidemic and such? And why do any black people still pay attention to what Al Sharpton has to say?
    I don’t think Kaepernick is a savior but I also don’t think he’s a problem for the black community.

    Black people need to realize that it’s going to take monumental, New Deal style reform to address the larger problems the black community faces. The minor changes establishment Dems propose (raising the top marginal tax rate by 5-10% and adding a crappy public option to Obamacare) might help but it won’t be anything meaningful. When Biden runs his campaign platform on “people don’t want a revolution” the black communities response should be with protests saying a revolution is exactly what they want.

  14. #114
    #FreeDerp Monostradamus's Avatar
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    Current state of Africa should make them more grateful (than other migrants) but the typical American black never steps foot on African soil
    Shut up, got

  15. #115
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I don’t think Kaepernick is a savior but I also don’t think he’s a problem for the black community.

    Black people need to realize that it’s going to take monumental, New Deal style reform to address the larger problems the black community faces. The minor changes establishment Dems propose (raising the top marginal tax rate by 5-10% and adding a crappy public option to Obamacare) might help but it won’t be anything meaningful. When Biden runs his campaign platform on “people don’t want a revolution” the black communities response should be with protests saying a revolution is exactly what they want.
    I'll even go further and say it's going to take this kind of reform to address the large problems in every community that is struggling middle-class or below.

    I just don't know how that's going to be achieved, though. Once Covid dies down, every American should be filled in the streets demanding single-payer healthcare. This pandemic has clearly revealed the flaws in our merciless for profit system. But there won't be protests. The core issues are that many Americans have become beaten down and have just accepted that the system will never change and they feel their time is better focused on just taking care of themselves and their families. Then we have a much too large percentage of Americans who believe universal healthcare was hatched by the Communist Devil himself.

    Other reforms like increased taxes on the rich, UBI, free college, prison reform, and such will face the same challenges of an apathetic and disbelieving population. I think what needs to change for these reforms to ever have a chance of being realized is our collective cultural mentality. Rabid individualism and "bootstrap-ism" are at the heart of our cultural sickness. We prize getting rich above everything else in this country, and it's created a collective nation of sociopaths who feel they are 100 percent en led to their spoils because they've "earned it," while the poor get what they deserve because "they just didn't want to work hard enough."

    It's been pointed out that the core differences between liberals and conservative is the latter believes in the "just world fallacy." Simply put:

    The just-world fallacy or just-world hypothesis is the cognitive bias (or assumption) that a person's actions are inherently inclined to bring morally fair and fitting consequences to that person, to the end of all noble actions being eventually rewarded and all evil actions eventually punished.
    The rich are rich because they deserve it. The poor are poor because they deserve it.

  16. #116
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    One of the issues with some in the BLM movement (I'm not going to define BLM as having a single unified vision. The group seems rather splintered in "what they want") is indeed their consistency of who they target and "cancel." Many Dem/Lib politicians/entertainers are "off limits," but so are many so-called "leaders" in the African American community, even figures important to the BLM movement. I think Kaepernick is a huge phony. White-washed black guy who started appropriating the fro and militant "black power" stance when it was most convenient. Okay, he got "woke." We'll give him a break. But then the heel partners up with Nike . Harlem always joked about how Nike and Jordan have gotten more people killed in the black community than anything else

    Here's a company that was a known exploiter of child labor for decades and specifically targeted urban communities with their products they knew they couldn't afford. Yeah, how do you think is going to turn out during the crack epidemic and such? And why do any black people still pay attention to what Al Sharpton has to say?
    I mentioned this tangentially before. Unlike the Civil Rights movement, these people are way more splintered and disorganized.

    This causes all sorts of problems, from making it easier to infiltrate protests, to having a large, organized display, to having a coherent message, etc. Which really does them a disservice in many ways.

    While I think most people agree with their general plight of ending systemic racism, it's much more difficult to establish the political plan, steps and unified ideas.

    You get one group saying "defund da police", another with a more moderate police/criminal reform, etc and then it all just becomes a lot of throw into the wall and see what sticks. It also puts people on the defensive (I support this, but not that, etc).

    I think this also points to the lack of credibility in the so called 'leaders' of that community, like Sharpton or Clyburn, which have obviously failed to raise to the moment and lead in a meaningful way, like MLK did.

  17. #117
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Anybody that isn't a piece of would want less police brutality/killings. That aspect of the movement is fine.

    I'm just not a fan of half truths and lack of accountability. There's a lot wrong with black culture that gets blamed on others. Absentee fathers, being the majority in prison, glorifying being hood, objectifying women, putting down respectable black people for being "too white". Police reform isn't going to change most of that. And yeah, this level of political correctness is just dumb. If I said any of those things publicly, even though they're all true, I'd be labeled a racist. The other day I was told told I hate black people because I said something along the lines of "Floyd had a lengthy criminal record, was high, and resisted arrest after committing a crime but he was still needlessly murdered". Apparently I have to think Floyd was a saint who was needlessly murdered. I find completely insane that that cop and chief in Atlanta had their careers destroyed just because the thug with the taser had dark skin.

    And yeah, it does chap my ass a little that apparently black people matter more than other minorities.
    Blacks didn't get together and collectively decide to live in hoods and do all the things you mentioned. It's cause and effect of their disposition in this country, which is almost impossible to understand coming from a different angle.

  18. #118
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I mentioned this tangentially before. Unlike the Civil Rights movement, these people are way more splintered and disorganized.

    This causes all sorts of problems, from making it easier to infiltrate protests, to having a large, organized display, to having a coherent message, etc. Which really does them a disservice in many ways.

    While I think most people agree with their general plight of ending systemic racism, it's much more difficult to establish the political plan, steps and unified ideas.

    You get one group saying "defund da police", another with a more moderate police/criminal reform, etc and then it all just becomes a lot of throw into the wall and see what sticks. It also puts people on the defensive (I support this, but not that, etc).

    I think this also points to the lack of credibility in the so called 'leaders' of that community, like Sharpton or Clyburn, which have obviously failed to raise to the moment and lead in a meaningful way, like MLK did.
    Wealthy black "leaders" want to remain wealthy. You saw what happened to King. These guys are infomercial folks, not leaders.

  19. #119
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I mentioned this tangentially before. Unlike the Civil Rights movement, these people are way more splintered and disorganized.

    This causes all sorts of problems, from making it easier to infiltrate protests, to having a large, organized display, to having a coherent message, etc. Which really does them a disservice in many ways.

    While I think most people agree with their general plight of ending systemic racism, it's much more difficult to establish the political plan, steps and unified ideas.

    You get one group saying "defund da police", another with a more moderate police/criminal reform, etc and then it all just becomes a lot of throw into the wall and see what sticks. It also puts people on the defensive (I support this, but not that, etc).

    I think this also points to the lack of credibility in the so called 'leaders' of that community, like Sharpton or Clyburn, which have obviously failed to raise to the moment and lead in a meaningful way, like MLK did.
    I think it's because since protests for justice movements often draw a lot of young people (and young people are immature on average), the few immature young people who are more out to cause trouble or be "radical" in their Che Guevera shirt because it's cool unfortunately wind up hijacking the movement. Conservative media cherry picks these troublemakers and morons, and thus moderates eventually lose sympathy for the movement. This tactic pretty much sank any momentum Occupy Wall Street had. And worryingly, the leftist media will sometimes promote the more radical fringes with puff piece articles probably because they want to draw clicks. Like that article in the New York times that headlined, "Yes, we literally mean abolish the police."

    They honestly don't think through. What would fill in the power vacuum of an abolished/defanged police? Private police. And if dystopian fiction and film has taught us anything, private police (who only the rich would be able to hire) would be exponentially more brutal and corrupt than what we have now. I'm all for police reform. They need better training, screening, and accountability, but abolishing them is sheer lunacy. That would lead to an even more right wing scape.

    I'm sure the Civil Rights Movement had its share of youthful idiots, but there was no 24/7 media cycle back then and reporting was more honest.

  20. #120
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I think it's because since protests for justice movements often draw a lot of young people (and young people are immature on average), the few immature young people who are more out to cause trouble or be "radical" in their Che Guevera shirt because it's cool unfortunately wind up hijacking the movement. Conservative media cherry picks these troublemakers and morons, and thus moderates eventually lose sympathy for the movement. This tactic pretty much sank any momentum Occupy Wall Street had. And worryingly, the leftist media will sometimes promote the more radical fringes with puff piece articles probably because they want to draw clicks. Like that article in the New York times that headlined, "Yes, we literally mean abolish the police."

    They honestly don't think through. What would fill in the power vacuum of an abolished/defanged police? Private police. And if dystopian fiction and film has taught us anything, private police (who only the rich would be able to hire) would be exponentially more brutal and corrupt than what we have now. I'm all for police reform. They need better training, screening, and accountability, but abolishing them is sheer lunacy. That would lead to an even more right wing scape.

    I'm sure the Civil Rights Movement had its share of youthful idiots, but there was no 24/7 media cycle back then and reporting was more honest.
    Media picks these people because the partisans on each side pick them. Even here people constantly use extreme examples to shame the other side. The media only shows us what we have illustrated we are looking to buy.

  21. #121
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Media picks these people because the partisans on each side pick them. Even here people constantly use extreme examples to shame the other side. The media only shows us what we have illustrated we are looking to buy.
    Sure. Drives clicks.

  22. #122
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I think it's because since protests for justice movements often draw a lot of young people (and young people are immature on average), the few immature young people who are more out to cause trouble or be "radical" in their Che Guevera shirt because it's cool unfortunately wind up hijacking the movement. Conservative media cherry picks these troublemakers and morons, and thus moderates eventually lose sympathy for the movement. This tactic pretty much sank any momentum Occupy Wall Street had. And worryingly, the leftist media will sometimes promote the more radical fringes with puff piece articles probably because they want to draw clicks. Like that article in the New York times that headlined, "Yes, we literally mean abolish the police."

    They honestly don't think through. What would fill in the power vacuum of an abolished/defanged police? Private police. And if dystopian fiction and film has taught us anything, private police (who only the rich would be able to hire) would be exponentially more brutal and corrupt than what we have now. I'm all for police reform. They need better training, screening, and accountability, but abolishing them is sheer lunacy. That would lead to an even more right wing scape.

    I'm sure the Civil Rights Movement had its share of youthful idiots, but there was no 24/7 media cycle back then and reporting was more honest.
    They had young kids. They simply had much better organization.

    They had a voice in a given leader, they had organizers that told people to be at this place and at this time, they made sure that if some punk did something stupid, they'll smack sense into them, they had an unified message and concrete demands.

    And sure, they were smeared up and down, but they stood stoic until their demands were met.

  23. #123
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Neutered generation and we raised them to be

  24. #124
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Current state of Africa should make them more grateful (than other migrants) but the typical American black never steps foot on African soil
    What African countries have you stepped foot in?

  25. #125
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    What African countries have you stepped foot in?
    I'm not African

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