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  1. #2226
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  2. #2227
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    You’re trying to play gotcha?
    Nope, just wondering how these warriors of the keyboard will react to the same spooky stuff done by their own side, in a US Senate election.

    neat, well then this should prove once and for all trump was aided by Russia then, right?
    I doubt the NYT scoop I referenced does anything of the sort.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 12-28-2018 at 10:49 AM.

  3. #2228
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I don't doubt the existence of Russian disinfo ops to influence foreign countries any more than i doubt the existence of US disinfo ops to influence foreign countries.

    I do wonder whether such ops were more decisive in 2016 than a bad candidate who managed to lose to the most unpopular candidate ever with a 1 billion dollar war chest and a bad strategy that involved ignoring states she couldn't afford to lose.

    I'll readily admit stories like the one I just posted cut against the grain of my skepticism; if the Alabama thing worked as well as advertised by its creators, it is plausible that a modest but well targeted operation could swing a very close nationwide election.

    Maybe that was the whole point of the operation, to give the Russian-interference-causing-Trump-to-be-elected hypothesis more credibility.

    Tbh, I don't know how one would prove or disprove that hypothesis.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 12-28-2018 at 10:54 AM.

  4. #2229
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    at any rate, expect this sort of thing to become the new normal. the perception that the other side gains an edge through online disinfo ops will ensure that everyone does it, whether foreign or domestic.

  5. #2230
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    You’re trying to play gotcha?

    neat, well then this should prove once and for all trump was aided by Russia then, right?
    The story here is the American public being stupid enough to be influenced by absolute crap.
    Both ends of the spectrum. Just look at the constant beetle dung dug up on this site from twitter referring back to some made up . The left does not believe this occurs on their end just because the right may have perfected it?

    I should not even say perfected because it's a method fit for fungus brains existing under rocks.

  6. #2231
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    How disingenuous. You’re here trying to false equivalence and what about a situation that is not the same. But it’s good that you’re upset by this, but not a president being elected by these same tactics at an infinitely greater scale.

    Your truth is showing again. Not that it wasn’t easy to figure out before.
    Not false equivalence at all IMO. Both ops aimed at suppressing opposition voters and firing up the base in real elections..

    Why do you think so?

  7. #2232
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    But it’s good that you’re upset by this, but not a president being elected by these same tactics at an infinitely greater scale.
    You're exaggerating. The Russian op was finite and quantifiable.

    As previously stated, I'm open to the idea a well-targeted disinfo op could swing a close national election.

    What makes you so sure that's what happened?

  8. #2233
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    are you not paying attention to what we know already from mueller, and the indictments of upper level trump campaign ops?

    It really seems like you’re purposefully ignoring the fact that every ing one of this people are linked to Russia, including the former AG who was caught lying about Russian contacts, to try to forward a bull narrative.
    I never said I doubted the existence of Russian disinfo ops. I don't think I've ever suggested the investigation into them was falsely or corruptly predicated.

    I do agree that what's publicly disclosed looks bad for Team Trump. You seem pretty convinced about certain legal outcomes, me less so. Let the chips fall where they may.

    I'm still not convinced the Russkies swung the election.

    Can you prove they did?

  9. #2234
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    here, I'll give you a leg up on your own hobby horse.

    Kathleen Hall Jamieson has the strongest case I've seen for Russia getting Trump elected:

    https://global.oup.com/academic/prod...cc=us&lang=en&

  10. #2235
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    have you not paid attention to the rw airwaves the last 40 years? Jesus Christ hw was dead in the ing water in 88 til they played the disinformation scare the stupid game.

    Ailes was the architect of the strategy, look at dumb the average Fox News viviewer is. Keep em scared of anything different.

    and forgive me for not feeling the least bit of sympathy for a piece of like Moore, whose entire political career, and shade from all of his deviance, was due to using that very model.
    You don't think this happens on the left?
    You seriously don't because there are no ideologues on the left and the left has smarter more discerning voters.
    The subject was on social media other than radio and TV. They are noting and quantifying strategies which was more difficult 40 years ago. (Which of course I'd don't remember but have read about.) It's not about Roy Moore. It's bigger than your "the right has the pervert" theme.

  11. #2236
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    are you not paying attention to what we know already from mueller, and the indictments of upper level trump campaign ops?

    It really seems like you’re purposefully ignoring the fact that every ing one of this people are linked to Russia, including the former AG who was caught lying about Russian contacts, to try to forward a bull narrative.

    Congratulations, you are a literate chris
    WTF this is all over everywhere in the news?

    The huge lesson from the election is that it was close. And that people like you don't get the message that a very significant number of Americans voted for Donald Fn Trump. Why don't you concentrate on how he won the Republican nomination against the huge Republican machine out of a huge group of candidates? Trump beat out the religious right, the Koch brothers on and on and this somehow is not significant enough for you to believe that Trump would have beaten Clinton without any Russian interference?

    Are you just bent on seeing what you want? So you take the easy way out and claim its stolen. It's that simple.

  12. #2237
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    I guess I trust the intelligence community says they did under oath. I trust collusion when the failed business had to go to Russia to get money because no one would extend any more credit to him, I trust there’s collusion when every ing person has ties to an enemy.

    I also trust the stupidity and gullibility of people when they are scared. See this board.

    And of of course you’re not convinced. It’s your side that’s immoral, and treasonous

    Bonnerific doing work.

  13. #2238
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    Thoughts on what part?

    That a pedophile had people calling women and offering them money to say that they were paid by the NY times to plant false stories/accusations?

    That a pedo who was guilty as got some people so disgusted that they resorted to his level-tactics?

    I don't know about that story - first I heard of it - and not sure it has been properly investigated but let's see. Bonnerific pretty much nailed it though.

  14. #2239
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    WTF this is all over everywhere in the news?

    The huge lesson from the election is that it was close. And that people like you don't get the message that a very significant number of Americans voted for Donald Fn Trump. Why don't you concentrate on how he won the Republican nomination against the huge Republican machine out of a huge group of candidates? Trump beat out the religious right, the Koch brothers on and on and this somehow is not significant enough for you to believe that Trump would have beaten Clinton without any Russian interference?

    Are you just bent on seeing what you want? So you take the easy way out and claim its stolen. It's that simple.

    yup = literate Chris

  15. #2240
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    the failed business had to go to Russia to get money because no one would extend any more credit to him, I trust there’s collusion when every ing person has ties to an enemy.
    Not sure it's quite accurate to characterize Russia as an enemy, but there's little doubt Trump is up to his eyeballs in Russian business connections. Trump's myriad conflicts of interests were and are in my mind the most important -- also the most obvious -- disqualification for the office he holds now.

    I think he's crooked as . I have little doubt his creditors have leverage over him, and that his business ambitions his official acts.

    I guess I trust the intelligence community says they did under oath.
    Sorry, whose testimony are you referring to here?

    Who testified to what?

    And of of course you’re not convinced. It’s your side that’s immoral, and treasonous
    I place a burning importance on the difference between hunches and verified knowledge. It's clear you don't.

    It's hilarious that you think disagreement with you is treason against the USA.

    Grandiose, much?

  16. #2241
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Look at the makeup of the left in this country, and then look at the makeup of the right. You tell me whose more likely to fall in line behind propaganda and lies.

    The idea that the party of trump is the same as the party of Reagan is complete and utter horse . It’s lurched into a geneous ugly hate filled cesspool filled with pieces of like re mt. There’s no morality in that group. Only fear and hate.

    Look at the left and you have blue conservative corporatists radical progressives, and everything in between. The umbrella is much larger, and does not fall in line easily.
    You have to have people who are already scared and feel oppressed or overlooked. Obama won two straight elections basically on the strength of "he knows what the common AND downtrodden feel like".

  17. #2242
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    yup = literate Chris
    Excellent.

    Explain what you disagree with and why Chrispurter of the left.

  18. #2243
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    check it out, curious to know what you think, Spurs Homer

  19. #2244
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bonnerific
    I guess I trust the intelligence community says they did under oath.


    Sorry, whose testimony are you referring to here?

    Who testified to what?

  20. #2245
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I didn't cry fake news. I've acknowledged Russian disinfo ops ITT, repeatedly.

  21. #2246
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    If you’re going to ignore all of the context of what happened and why to try to soften your guilt, it’s not really worth arguing with you.

    But you just proved my last response to you as exactly correct. geneous hatred based on propaganda and outright lies, directed at human , convincing them to vote to intentionally damage themselves because they can own libs.

    How do you feel about all the bold faced lies trump tells every day? How do you feel about him lying to soldiers? How do you feel about all of your tax money going directly going into his pockets every time he golfs?
    I held my nose and voted for Clinton like many other people who knew Donald Trump BEFORE he came into office.

    This human you point out. You think the right is loaded with it but the left has none?
    How the fck did Obama win? Part of what you call voted for him. Along with a whole lot of other (by your definition based on this rant, the uneducated)

    Back to work.
    You don't know that a significant number of very good people voted for Trump. All you see is that confederate flag behind toothless white people. Just like the pictures. Just like the right sees the black Muslim American getting handouts while helping brown lice infested criminals across the border.

  22. #2247
    Veteran Isitjustme?'s Avatar
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    Who is your preferred TV journalist since you are expert on credibility?
    Tapper, Bret Baier, Chris Wallace, would be my picks for most credible

    Least are Brian Williams for lying, and Maddow, Hannity, Dobbs for being partisan propagandists

  23. #2248
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    I held my nose and voted for Clinton like many other people who knew Donald Trump BEFORE he came into office.

    This human you point out. You think the right is loaded with it but the left has none?
    How the fck did Obama win? Part of what you call voted for him. Along with a whole lot of other (by your definition based on this rant, the uneducated)

    Back to work.
    You don't know that a significant number of very good people voted for Trump. All you see is that confederate flag behind toothless white people. Just like the pictures. Just like the right sees the black Muslim American getting handouts while helping brown lice infested criminals across the border.


    That might be true.

    If they are STILL supporting him now - it makes them not so good people today. What did they learn?
    They are nothing but white supremacist sympathizers.

  24. #2249
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Holy . Russia is not an enemy? Wtf? they had existing sanctions against them before trump lifted them (of course you ignore that)

    you are not good at this. You admit something then blow off it’s importance. Yet it’s Obama’s fault trump was elected.

    Jesus Christ
    Are we at war with Russia? That's the traditional and legal definition of the word.

    Were you using it colloquially?

    There are *still sanctions againt Russia; the US Congress doesn't seem to have paid much attention to the President's preferences

  25. #2250
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Elections are complicated; boiling them down to one or two factors probably obscures more than it reveals.

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