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1st issue is that PATFO probably disagree with your postulate...
Hearing Pop yesterday talking about OKC leads me to think his plan might be longer and more painful than we all expect.
We've seen enough of "what we have" and I think it is reasonable to start drawing some conclusions about our current roster and where we'd like to go.
The goal is to build a true le contender around Wemby.
For the purposes of this discussion, let's focus on the next two years, so roster construction for the 24-25 and 25-26 seasons.
What do you think about what he have now?
How would you go about building this roster for 24-25 and 25-26?
THE CURRENT ROSTER/aka WHAT WE HAVE
Guys We Keep:
- Wemby - everyone else is expendable if they can be moved to improve the roster
NBA level rotation players under long term deals who have trade value right now:
- Devin -
- Keldon -
Expiring Deals we might trade this season:
- McBuckets
- Osman
Developmental Prospects under contract through the time line with little to no trade value:
- Sochan -
- Malaki -
- Blake Wesley -
- Champagnie -
- Bassey -
- Cissoko -
Other Developmental Prospects not under long term contract
- Barlow -
Backup level players who we probably keep until their contracts expire:
- Tre Jones -
- Zach Collins - our only bad contract at the moment
Guys we cut or allow contracts to expire:
- everyone else
Looking at the list above it is no wonder we suck!
Looking ahead to the next two seasons here are my areas of focus for building the roster:
- Keep Wemby Happy Healthy and Developing
- Find a true running mate for Wemby
- Develop the best of our young talents
To keep Wemby happy he has to buy into whatever the Front Office plan is for building around him.
If he isn't convinced that it is working he will have the leverage to force some things internally and hopefully he does that.
Worst case scenario he forces something externally. I don't think that will happen but we have to be careful.
We desperately need a true running mate for Wemby and they aren't on the roster yet.
That running mate archetype is either a play making guard who can create off the dribble and PnR, or a high volume scoring wing who can feast when Wemby draws defensive attention or a combo of those traits.
We are unlikely to get them via FA, so draft or trade is how that happens.
Siakam is the only FA I think we could target and maybe have a shot with.
Trae might become available and he is rightfully a polarizing player but he fits the archetype.
We have too many developmental prospects on the team to develop them all properly.
And we're about to pick up more in the draft.
We probably need to keep swinging in the draft to find Wemby's running mate.
But I think we need to focus on just a few prospects that we really like and put some veteran leadership around them.
I also think a big roster turnover could help re-set the losing culture.
Veterans can help develop these guys better by showing the right way to play and perhaps showing how to win games on occasion.
There are very few of those guys on the roster right now.
Solid veterans could be found in FA if we're willing to spend a little.
We also could trade some of our less valuable draft capital to help bring in some guys.
As FA I'd love to see guys like Valenciunas, Conley, Tyus Jones, Buddy Hield, Kyle Anderson, Grayson Allen, Plumlee, and maybe Jalen Smith get a good strong look. Not sure if we'd have a shot at him, but D'lo Russell would be a solid veteran PG to run things until our young talent matures.
I think we tank one more year during 24-25, whether we want to or not. We just won't be good enough to really win.
I also think we need to be competing for the play-in or better by 25-26 to keep Wemby onboard with the plan.
1st issue is that PATFO probably disagree with your postulate...
Hearing Pop yesterday talking about OKC leads me to think his plan might be longer and more painful than we all expect.
I have to wonder if they have buy-in from Wemby on that.
Keeping him happy enough to sign his second contract is the #1 priority
Guys We Keep:
Wemby - Of course. To address one of your points below though, Wemby has spoken about wanting to win and win immediately so I don't see him being a patient guy suffering through multiple frustrating mid seasons. You can already see his frustration growing halfway into the season during his post-game pressers.
NBA level rotation players under long term deals who have trade value right now:
Devin -
Keldon -
Devin's and Keldon's offense is very frustrating. They both make up their mind they are shooting at half court often times as they literally never look elsewhere. These 2 to me are the biggest disappointments on the team and carry the biggest responsibility for why we are not closer to say an OKC. Keldon's help defense is often times literally useless.
Expiring Deals we might trade this season:
McBuckets
Osman
Trade them if you must but these are the kind of role-playing vets that actually win championships with the right kind of team.
Developmental Prospects under contract through the time line with little to no trade value:
Sochan -
Malaki -
Blake Wesley -
Champagnie -
Bassey -
Cissoko -
I keep Sochan, Bassey, Cissoko, Wesley all day. Peace out to the others.
I really like Bassey and I think Sochan is getting better almost by the game. I really like his newfound aggression offensively and his passing has improved a bunch. Wesley could grow into a surprise. And Cissoko is just an unknown.
Other Developmental Prospects not under long term contract
Barlow -
Barlow is in the same place as the 4 above in my book.
Backup level players who we probably keep until their contracts expire:
Tre Jones -
Zach Collins - our only bad contract at the moment
Agree on both points, though Tre could conceivably be the back up on a good team. If Wesley can add a consistent shot, so could he (to carry over from above).
Guys we cut or allow contracts to expire:
everyone else
Except for as noted above, yes.
Looking at the list above it is no wonder we suck!
Looking ahead to the next two seasons here are my areas of focus for building the roster:
Keep Wemby Happy Healthy and Developing
Find a true running mate for Wemby
Develop the best of our young talents
We might have something with a few guys on our roster but otherwise PATFO has done a woeful job developing them.
Last edited by offset formation; 01-25-2024 at 06:08 PM.
I don't see a way how the team can improve by a lot next season without a trade. Adding those vets won't do much, probably make us a 30 win team but that's about it.
Spurs are going to have to trade away those sweet draft picks or get ready to be ty for at least two more years due to all the poor decisions made by the front office
If Vassell and Keldon have positive trade value, then I think you look to capitalize on that (Keldon more so than Vassell, but the same theory applies) for the reasons offset formation lists. I don't see a path for these two to go from focal points on a losing team to role players on a winning team unless they are traded and forced into that situation. Both these guys are covered in the stink of losing, and neither are good enough to lift us out of that.
I'd rather resign Doug and Cedi to vet min deals and trade away Dev and Keldon than get a couple of SRPs (of which we have plenty) for them and continue to build around those two.
Sounds like Pop wants to go with the long rebuild, which will involve more tanking next year and maybe the year after that, wasting good years of Wemby's career. We've discussed ad nauseum why that is a mistake, but we aren't in charge. But if I were GM, I'd be trying to perform a MAJOR overhaul of the roster this summer, not just minor tweaks as we continue to develop the players we have and add a couple more lotto picks. We need to add those lotto picks, surround them with capable vets, and jettison the riff raff.
You get what you can now from Keldon -- hes dynamic offensively but he is undoubtedly a no defense-playing, ball hog.
Probably got to shop Vassell too. He unfortunately has probably hit his career ceiling offensively, is a chucker that doesn't understand passing to a 7'4" beast, and his defensive effort is intermittent at best.
I'd hate to lose those Atlanta picks because they're gold.
Can't believe how quickly Vassell's defense has fallen off a cliff. His DFG went from top 40% to bottom 20% of the league in a few weeks and he's below ing Collins now.
We can't unless we get a steal in the draft that really meshes with and improves Wemby.
I zero'd in on him on a rebound situation in a close game last week.
Lazy MeBaller made zero attempt to block out. Could have easily.
It was the play where they got like 3 offensive rebounds as the Spurs looked spineless.
timvp regularly gives him 'but not much / nothing on the defensive side of the ball'
I'm sick of his at ude. His spirit and effort are pathetic. Yet another from the Gen of Kobme AAU ball.
Devin has to go. I looove him but he's no #2 guy. Wemby goes to the bench, the lead balloons. Devin is trash
Wemby is obviously the entire franchise right now.
Vassell has been inconsistent, maybe not good enough as the clear second option on a good roster, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's the right deal.
Sochan goes from looking like he's finally putting it together to trainwreck and back in most games. Still, I'd give him one more season.
Keldon is a good trade bait because there are surely teams out there that think he's a solid player, which he's not.
Wesley has been showing great defensive potential, but is nowhere near ready on offense and has no trade value.
Tre is a solid backup PG for now.
Others need to go asap. Barlow and Champagnie can stay as third stringers, maybe Cissoko develops in Austin, but others simply can't be on the roster for the next season.
That would double our win total tbh
Just curious who are you trading Keldon and Vassell for I mean don’t be lazy if you say trade them then let us know who and what are you trading for. I am all for getting better and it is a serious question what players are you targeting and what do you want in return?
As far as future I personally don’t see you any free agent we can get this summer that is going to make that much of a difference. And by that I am mean I am looking at getting a legit starter next to Wemby I just don’t see us getting that player through a trade this year.
the pg position is still up for grabs, tre should be going enrique every position, his been put out there to feed tothe wolves what he got or else its either backup pg or gleague for him...too bad team has not vet pg to show him...
None of us work in an NBA front office, so it's kind of hard to say who might even be available. But I think we all agree that when we say we think we should trade Keldon or Vassell we should get good value in return, not simply looking to dump them.
Personally, I think either or both would be part of a package, along with draft capital, to land a big fish. For example, either of them would be a decent piece to send back to Atlanta in a hypothetical Trae Young deal. They are both proven tank commanders.
unless theres some incredible opportunity, i dont think you move any of vassell, tre, keldon, sochan. yes, some of these guys we'd like to upgrade upon at some point... but right now we have a roster full of guys that are not nba caliber players right now. now is the time to replace them with other candidates/prospects, and we cant be scared to churn. cant be scared to move off branham because he might get better one day. or bassey. or barlow. we need to fill out a roster right now. and its not just starters around wemby. we've seen the defense fall apart when wemby is off the floor. he needs a backup. whether thats bassey, barlow, or sarr next year, its a necessary position.
frankly i dont know what good options there will be in free agency 2024. really just gotta cross our fingers that the raptors pick conveys so we can add two young prospects instead of just one
If the Spurs can use Johnson to get Murray back he can go. Barlow is good enough to keep around another year. I'd buy Collins out before cutting Barlow.
Malik Monk and Miles Bridges? Free agency got ed as soon as Quickley and Anunoby came off the market.
I like Monk, but a lot of eggs to put in one basket. he'll have suitors. though if the spurs tell him he gets the keys to run the backcourt and he wants to be part of the wemby show, that could intrigue him from a basketball point of view
bridges is playing well but i dont see it happening because of the off-court stuff
We should absolutely not be this bad this season. I used to look down on dysfunctional franchises who just couldn't seem to figure things out and most of all pick the right players, but that's where we're at right now. Where did we go wrong? Is it just a function of letting a few key people go? (Presti? Engelland?)
How do we have ONE decent PG? Who does that? Last night he's out, we're back to being a mess. It's a wonder how Wemby produces as much with so little. The opponent focuses solely on him and on most nights, that's enough. Any point he scores is 3x as hard as Chet's.
OKC shot 45% from three, we shot 28%. This is so crucial in today's NBA, you can't space the floor without it. And then you can't win a f-king game.
And what about that BS minutes restriction? Sure, for one or two weeks I guess. How long has it been? WTF is that? Is it that they heard so much about Victor being injury prone as a function of his size that they're pulling this kind of BS? He's been fine.
Are they just playing games with him so he Gets Over Himself™ ? This is ridiculous. How long is that going to last?
He clearly deserves ROTY but it looks like the team is doing everything in their power to prevent him from getting it. And that's the only positive thing we could reasonably expect from this season. Is it just to piss him off? You're getting the next absolute hyperstar of the game and you're acting like that? LeBron played 40 minutes per game his rookie year.
I hated the 24 minute restriction but 30 minutes for a rookie is fine. No one plays 40 minutes a night anymore as everyone figured out it doesn't make sense to run your guys into the ground. Embiid and Jokic have never played 35 minutes a night for a season in their careers. Curry only played 35+ minutes a night for three seasons, with the last one ten years ago. Tatum plays 36 a game. Even Doncic plays 37 a night and Maxey leads the league at 37.7 MPG. I don't expect Victor at 20 years old to be playing 35 minutes a night as a rookie having to carry a crap roster entirely on his back. Way too much of a load for a guy just getting used to the NBA. In 2-3 years maybe you play him 35 minutes a night in the season and 38-40 in the playoffs as he's hitting his physical prime but only way I'd even consider putting him at 35 minutes next season is if the Spurs make a deal for someone like Trae Young who could lighten the load significantly and keep Victor out of having to battle 2-3 defenders every time he touches the ball inside the three point line.
This years team is worse than the winless for Wemby tank last year. Why? Because popazit and Brian wrong suck ass at player evaluation. And will continue to do so. If you want Wemby to stick around for a Duncanesque career then the old man by the sea and his diversity hire need to go.
Otherwise we get watch Wemby play his prime in NY or LA.
In which wemby will leave once his rookie contract ends
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