If the Spurs draft 11th

[timvp]

The league's changing, tbh. Keldon is starting to look like a big wing compared to the "small forwards" teams use nowadays. Even the Lakers were running lineups where Caruso was their nominal SF.

[Dejounte]

The league's changing, tbh. Keldon is starting to look like a big wing compared to the "small forwards" teams use nowadays. Even the Lakers were running lineups where Caruso was their nominal SF.

My only rebuttal to that is that the Spurs usually "zags" when the rest of the NBA "zigs".

It was the Spurs who paved the way to slow-it-down, tough defense, low scoring games of the 00's, before the Pistons and other teams started doing it.

It was the Spurs who paved the way to the "Beautiful Game", before the Warriors did it.

Now that everyone is moving towards small ball, I think the Spurs are going to do the opposite.

Let's remember... when Kawhi was here with Aldridge, we were the top at mid-range shooting. That was when it was considered "archaic" and no other team was doing it anymore. That was by design, not coincidence. The Spurs were trying to win by mid-range shooting (and obviously, other ways too). And they were going to go all the way with it had Kawhi had not gotten injured.

[TD 21]

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

Powell is 6'3, but 215 with a 6'11'' wingspan. Lowry/VanVleet are tough, brick wall types, like Paul/Bledsoe.

The Thunder got away with that against the Rockets.

These are specific instances and if the Celtics don't lose their collective minds by zoning up the strong side and leaving a knockdown corner 3 shooter for a rhythm shot, this series is probably over in 5 and you're probably not saying this.

[DAF86]

The more playoff games I watch, the more convinced I am that size doesn't matter anymore in the NBA. For example, in yesterday's NBA you'd say a lineup of White, Murray, Walker, Johnson and random 6-foot-9 player is too small. Now? It's actually kinda big, tbh.

And if size doesn't matter, some of these combo guards suddenly look more draftable for the Spurs. Hmmm...

Kawhi, Giannis, Lebron, Davis, Harden, Durant, Doncic, George, Tatum. All the best players still have above average size for their position. Size will always matter.

[DAF86]

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

The Raptors are outliers. They play a defensive scheme that nobody else does in the league. They are pretty much always playing zone, so their midgets don't have to play much man to man. I honestly don't know how they are so good allowing the most open threes per game in the league. One would think it's luck, but two full seasons worth of luck is very unlikely. Other teams should start taking notes, tbh.

[DAF86]

The league's changing, tbh. Keldon is starting to look like a big wing compared to the "small forwards" teams use nowadays. Even the Lakers were running lineups where Caruso was their nominal SF.

That doesn't count when your nominal PG is Lebron, tbh.

Kawhi, Lebron, Middleton, Butler, Brown/Tatum, Grant/Porter Jr, Anunoby. Those are the SF's of the best teams in the league. We need to get us one of those, tbh.

[ZeusWillJudge]

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

I thought when PJ Washington showed up at the combine at 6'6.5" he was cooked. He went at #12 and had a of a rookie year as a PF. I think less than 1/4 of last year's draft class was over 6'8" and less than 1/4 was 6'3" or less. It's jam-packed at 6'5" - 6'6". The league really has changed that much.

But... you can't look at what is working in the league without also understanding why starting Bryn Forbes can't work and why he's a situational player at best. Murray has a perfect profile for a New NBA player, except he isn't a PG. Patty could survive at his size as a PG, but he isn't a PG and can't defend any position.

You can see why Keldon Johnson is looking so good - he's built for it, and he's not being asked to play out of position on the offensive end. You can play small, but you can't fake PG skills. That's why I keep saying that this team really needs to draft a point, or get one through a trade.

[timvp]

Powell is 6'3, but 215 with a 6'11'' wingspan.

Still tiny for a 3.

Lowry/VanVleet are tough, brick wall types, like Paul/Bledsoe.

Whichever one you consider the 2 is tiny.

The Thunder got away with that against the Rockets.

The Thunder made the playoffs largely due to the success of their three point guard lineup of CP3, Schroder and SGA.

These are specific instances and if the Celtics don't lose their collective minds by zoning up the strong side and leaving a knockdown corner 3 shooter for a rhythm shot, this series is probably over in 5 and you're probably not saying this.

Meh, the Celtics themselves are proof of the shrinking NBA. Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Theis would be considered super small ball like two years ago. Now it's a regular lineup that no one even would second guess.

That's why, IMO, in the draft, you don't go out of your way to put together a roster that our grandfathers would approve of size-wise. Willing players in a well-designed scheme can survive against bigger players these days, as is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass.

[timvp]

That doesn't count when your nominal PG is Lebron, tbh.

The lineups I'm talking about have LeBron at PF and Davis at C, tbh.

Kawhi, Lebron, Middleton, Butler, Brown/Tatum, Grant/Porter Jr, Anunoby. Those are the SF's of the best teams in the league. We need to get us one of those, tbh.

Don't disagree. However, these days -- more so than ever -- you can survive without a Long Three or a Big Wing or a Combo Forward or whatever vernacular you want to use.

Translating that observation to this draft thread, that means you don't take a Saddiq Bey for his size if there's a player who is 6-foot-4 or 6-foot-5 who you think is better.

[DAF86]

Still tiny for a 3. Whichever one you consider the 2 is tiny.

Powell's 6'11" > Keldon's 6'9"

Meh, the Celtics themselves are proof of the shrinking NBA. Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Theis would be considered super small ball like two years ago. Now it's a regular lineup that no one even would second guess.

I think we would all be fine with a forward tandem of Brown and Tatum, tbh.

That's why, IMO, in the draft, you don't go out of your way to put together a roster that our grandfathers would approve of size-wise. Willing players in a well-designed scheme can survive against bigger players these days, as is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass.

Nobody is asking for grandfather size aproval. Just a couple 6'8" ish guys to play the forward positions, like every contender in the NBA does, tbh.

[timvp]

Powell's 6'11" > Keldon's 6'9"

You measuring players by wingspan now? I guess Dejounte is 6-foot-11 too, now.

I think we would all be fine with a forward tandem of Brown and Tatum, tbh.

Didn't say otherwise.

Nobody is asking for grandfather size aproval. Just a couple 6'8" ish guys to play the forward positions, like every contender in the NBA does, tbh.

Agreed. That'd be nice. But isn't mandatory, tbh, IMO.

[DAF86]

The lineups I'm talking about have LeBron at PF and Davis at C, tbh.

Don't disagree. However, these days -- more so than ever -- you can survive without a Long Three or a Big Wing or a Combo Forward or whatever vernacular you want to use.

Translating that observation to this draft thread, that means you don't take a Saddiq Bey for his size if there's a player who is 6-foot-4 or 6-foot-5 who you think is better.

So your plan would be to play all of our 6'4", 6'5" guys together 1 through 4 during an entire season? Sorry, but I don't see that working. I guess under the right cir stances and with a lot of talent you might be able to be a playoffs team ala Thunder and Rockets, but you won't ever trully contend with a team built like that, imho.

[timvp]

but you won't ever trully contend with a team built like that, imho.

The Spurs aren't close enough to a championship level to draft through a "contend" lens, IMO. Sure, height is still preferred but the premium on height is vanishing by the day, so reaching for height no longer makes as much sense as it used to.

[DAF86]

You measuring players by wingspan now? I guess Dejounte is 6-foot-11 too, now.

Standing reach >= wingspan >> height

(Add some mass muscle somewhere in there too)

Agreed. That'd be nice. But isn't mandatory, tbh, IMO.

Sure, if you have a non-facor player like Lyles you might be better off starting someone like Keldon at PF over him and overall you should do better as a team. But when going up against a team that starts a player similar to Keldon in quality but that is 6'8" you will always be at a disadvantage.

The rule of always drafting the best talent available regardless of position (or in this case, size) is golden. So, you won't find anyone disagreeing with that. If the Spurs feel like a 6'4" guy is clearly the best player available, they should go for it without thinking twice. However, if it's close, size should be the deciding factor, tbh.

[timvp]

Standing reach >= wingspan >> height

(Add some mass muscle somewhere in there too)

Funny you mention that because Keldon has a freakishly high standing reach for someone his height and his wingspan

If the Spurs feel like a 6'4" guy is clearly the best player available, they should go for it without thinking twice.

The SpursTalk meltdown if the Spurs draft a 6-foot-4 combo guard would be entertaining, tbh.

[DAF86]

Funny you mention that because Keldon has a freakishly high standing reach for someone his height and his wingspan

What is it? I never heard/read of his standing reach, tbh.

The other components that play a factor in standing reach besides height and wingspan I suppose would be neck/head length and shoulder width. If you have a short neck/head, your height from shoulders to floor is relatively higher than your actual height; and if you have narrow shoulders, your standing reach should be longer than what your wingspan indicates.

It's weird though, because Keldon seems to have some wide ass shoulders, tbh.

The SpursTalk meltdown if the Spurs draft a 6-foot-4 combo guard would be entertaining, tbh.

And it would have me at the forefront, tbh.

[spurspl]

Now that everyone is moving towards small ball, I think the Spurs are going to do the opposite.

id love to see this, white/murray/keldon and two high motor forwards with above average sizes and/or wingspan (like jalen or achiuwa). The key is to not have a slow center. This kind of lineup can be a smallball killer. During the whole yesterday game celtic vs raptors there was literally nobody in the paint in offense. Almost zero offensive rebounds. The missed shot = get your ass back to defense.

[RC_Drunkford]

What is it? I never heard/read of his standing reach, tbh.

The other components that play a factor in standing reach besides height and wingspan I suppose would be neck/head length and shoulder width. If you have a short neck/head, your height from shoulders to floor is relatively higher than your actual height; and if you have narrow shoulders, your standing reach should be longer than what your wingspan indicates.

It's weird though, because Keldon seems to have some wide ass shoulders, tbh.



And it would have me at the forefront, tbh.

Keldon has a very short neck, which makes him seem smaller than what he actually is

[Chinook]

Keldon has a very short neck, which makes him seem smaller than what he actually is

Yeah, he basically has the body of a 6-7/6-8 player. It's not even like he has a long wingspan. If he were 6-8, his 6-9.5 wingspan wouldn't be impressive at all. That's how you know his body is weird. He has a SR comparable to a lot of PFs despite being the height of a two-guard and not particularly long.

[mo7888]

If we stay at 11 I think we've got to take BA regardless of size. I still prefer we trade. Move up for Obi or Wiseman if we can reasonably and if we can't trade down or trade to pick up an additional 1st. Draft Robert Woodard with that additional 1st. He's athletic and 6'7" with a great wingspan who can defend 4 positions and shoot the 3. He's exactly what we need in my mind. Then use 41 on Reed or Perry whoever is available. I think that sets us up to be versatile and still take advantage of small ball lineups.

[Dejounte]

If we stay at 11 I think we've got to take BA regardless of size. I still prefer we trade. Move up for Obi or Wiseman if we can reasonably and if we can't trade down or trade to pick up an additional 1st. Draft Robert Woodard with that additional 1st. He's athletic and 6'7" with a great wingspan who can defend 4 positions and shoot the 3. He's exactly what we need in my mind. Then use 41 on Reed or Perry whoever is available. I think that sets us up to be versatile and still take advantage of small ball lineups.

I think he will be there at 41.

White/ Murray/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Woodard
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

[spurspl]

I think he will be there at 41.

White/ Murray/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Woodard
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

woodard will be gone before 41th. But he can be replaced by Nwora who probably will be available. Im not a fan of LMA and/or DDR next year in spurs but even if they stay thats still a huge improvement compared to what we had in a regular season.

[XDT76]

I think he will be there at 41.

White/ Murray/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Woodard
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

Seeing Gay is missing from your lineup maybe Gay and 41 for a low round 1 pick to pick up woodard. But I am not sure how the finance is gonna work.

[Dejounte]

For the Woodard fans:

mo7888

Keldon likes to hunt, too. Hmm...

[BackHome]

And his favorite color is Black so I think he would like to be in a Spurs Uniform the problem is trying to move up to draft to get him. Right now I am thinking he an early second maybe a late first round but who knows with this draft he could end up falling to us. I really like what he brings to the defensive side and he has worked really hard on his 3 ball after his first year so I think his stats will get better.

Wood, Keldon, White, Luka , Walker, Murray, Poodle - That’s a pretty decent blend of offense and defense capabilities right there.