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  1. #276
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Basically I see Collins as the bad version of trading a second for KPJ last year. Taking a flier on an uber-talented scorer when your team is going to be low on offense in future years? Yes. Paying at least market value for a guy with a ton of injuries? Like, why? Eubanks is a better player and is basically the same age signed to a great deal. This trade legit imperils his roster spot. Landale is an intriguing prospect that you only signed for two years. Why bring him over and then push him to the fringe of the rotation? If Collins were a legit PF prospect, I could see it. But he's a center. It's not a position where you can afford to use too many roster spots, and given how they were already planning on trading Young/Aminu, were likely talking to Landale and had interest in Forbes, they shouldn't've been looking at their roster and thinking they had the spot for an IR guy who at best is going to be worth his contract.

  2. #277
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    ZC has definitely grown on me, IF he returns to his previous form we have a really talented young big on the squad. Hopefully between him or Jock they can replace Jakob eventually

  3. #278
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    Here you go...


    Bobby Marks
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    Breakdown of the Zach Collins contract in San Antonio:
    2021-22- $7M (full guarantee)
    2022-23- $7.35M (50% guaranteed)
    2023-24- $7.7M ($0 guaranteed)
    Total guarantee is $10.675M This is a sold contract for both San Antonio and Collins.

  4. #279
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Obviously could've been worse. But it's upsetting they do Drew the way they did with this signing. He's been a far better player than Zach, even ignoring injuries. He shouldn't be at risk of getting cut because PATFO decided to pay a worse player way more to play his position.

  5. #280
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Let’s play around with the idea that he is healthy for most of the duration of his contract.

    is he pretty much what we expected Samanic to be? Tall, versatile on defense, gives energy?
    I'd say they're somewhat similar. Collins is taller, longer and has a natural feel for the game. Samanic is more athletic in all areas (pre-injuries, Collins was maybe tied with him quickness-wise) and has more upside in terms of perimeter skills (passing, dribbling, playmaking). Basically, Collins is Samanic but with a much higher floor (if healthy, at worst he's a mobile big with just enough offensive game to be playable; Samanic isn't an NBA player at his lower outcomes) but a lower ceiling (Samanic is unlikely to reach his ceiling but it's sky high).

    The best way to think of a great Collins outcome if he's healthy is that he becomes a skinnier, weaker Poeltl with a jumper and more fluidity on offense but not as good of defensive instincts.

  6. #281
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Here you go...


    Bobby Marks
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    Breakdown of the Zach Collins contract in San Antonio:
    2021-22- $7M (full guarantee)
    2022-23- $7.35M (50% guaranteed)
    2023-24- $7.7M ($0 guaranteed)
    Total guarantee is $10.675M This is a sold contract for both San Antonio and Collins.
    Ehhhhhhh. I was hoping for 33% guaranteed. Turned out to be 48.5% guaranteed. A $10 million gamble that you find Poeltl 2.0? Uh, I mean, I guess that's fine but a really weird gamble, IMO. You can find interesting bigs on the waiver wire -- it's tough to say what Collins has that makes him so interesting that you invest this much in him. For example, Jock Landale was way more interesting as a prospect and he's going to make less -- possibly a lot less.

  7. #282
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    This is typical Spurs. Not good enough to celebrate but not bad enough to be a real landmine and this year doesn’t matter. Eating only 3.7M next year is no biggie if needed but still. This is where the FO has been; nothing that gives you confidence but avoids making you completely hate them

  8. #283
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    Zero doubt for me that Sengun will have more double doubles as a rookie than Zollins in his entire career

    Waiting on the Jock and Forbes deals to give the Spurs a complete off season game 3, but it's looking like an F from me dawg

  9. #284
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    This is typical Spurs. Not good enough to celebrate but not bad enough to be a real landmine and this year doesn’t matter. Eating only 3.7M next year is no biggie if needed but still. This is where the FO has been; nothing that gives you confidence but avoids making you completely hate them
    Yup. That’s where I am too. I reject the sniffer vs exhaler dichotomy that’s been showing up on this board. The world isn’t black or white; reality is much more nuanced.

  10. #285
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Ehhhhhhh. I was hoping for 33% guaranteed. Turned out to be 48.5% guaranteed. A $10 million gamble that you find Poeltl 2.0? Uh, I mean, I guess that's fine but a really weird gamble, IMO. You can find interesting bigs on the waiver wire -- it's tough to say what Collins has that makes him so interesting that you invest this much in him. For example, Jock Landale was way more interesting as a prospect and he's going to make less -- possibly a lot less.
    IMO, only one of Samanic and Eubanks will be on the roster by opening night.

    if Eubanks stays, then the Spurs view Collins’ role differently than what you describe here and he’s a 4.

    if Samanic stays, then they’re betting on two pipeline players to battle it out for the future of the backup 4 position (or starter 4).

  11. #286
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Eubanks is a better player and is basically the same age signed to a great deal.
    Per minute, Eubanks averages more points, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than Collins. Eubanks also gets to the line more often, shoots for a higher percentage from everywhere and fouls less often.

    The pluses for Collins are that he *checks notes* shoots 32.4% from three while shooting them less frequently than Keldon or Dejounte.

  12. #287
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Per minute, Eubanks averages more points, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than Collins. Eubanks also gets to the line more often, shoots for a higher percentage from everywhere and fouls less often.

    The pluses for Collins are that he *checks notes* shoots 32.4% from three while shooting them less frequently than Keldon or Dejounte.
    Yeah, it's not close. Drew has his problems and wasn't necessary for the roster, but he should've been competing either with a solid vet like Dieng or a rookie-scale center with eventual starter potential. He basically has no chance to actually win this compe ion, even though he's extremely likely to deserve to win it. The best he can hope for (assuming being sent elsewhere isn't actually what he prefers) is for the Spurs to follow the trend they set with Jimmer and be willing to eat dead money to keep the best players. Waiving Collins wouldn't be very different than waiving Carroll. But, like, -- that's not something to do twice. Even Collins being a PF doesn't fix the issue because Keldon and Johnson are there, and Samanic should get a chance to be in the rotation and not pushed aside for a guy who wasn't very good. It also completely shuts KBD out of the rotation and off the team, and Keita has been a better player than Collins too.

    Just a really weird, gun-jumping move by PATFO. They had to have already been in contact with Landale before Collins. Unless they know a center is going out in an upcoming trade, the whole way they attacked that position this off-season doesn't make sense.

  13. #288
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    If Collins were a legit PF prospect, I could see it. But he's a center. It's not a position where you can afford to use too many roster spots
    This is a key question: Can Collins play PF? I know he was drafted as a PF but things have changed even since he got drafted. "Stretch bigs" at PF have been replaced by big wings who have slid up to PF. So, in this environment, can Collins play PF?

    I wouldn't close the door on it yet. Post-thrice-ankle-snappage, he's most likely a center whether he wants to be or not. But if he can retain most of his quickness, I can imagine him possibly being a PF. But it'd have to be next to a center who is an offensive threat. Collins is a 4th or 5th option on the court. You can't him next to a center who is also a 4th or 5th option. Poeltl and Collins together could be good on defense but they don't have enough firepower on offense for that to be a workable, long-term pairing, for example. Other teams would just go small and the Poeltl/Collins combo wouldn't have the wherewithal to make them pay.

  14. #289
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    If Zollins had been undrafted and coming off these injuries then the Spurs would treat him like Kevin Pittsnogle

  15. #290
    Believe.
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    Obviously could've been worse. But it's upsetting they do Drew the way they did with this signing. He's been a far better player than Zach, even ignoring injuries. He shouldn't be at risk of getting cut because PATFO decided to pay a worse player way more to play his position.
    Doubt it. Collins in his second year is already a major contributor to a WCF team. He was a big reason they made it past DEN in 2019.

  16. #291
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    ^Keita played zero minutes at the PF position last year.

  17. #292
    Believe. Cardinal's Avatar
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    I’m not too worried as long as there’s still a strong chance that the Spurs are not gambling on Collins becoming a good long term fit on the roster but rather becoming a valuable asset to be traded to help with the rebuild. Look at how they took the risk with Gay coming off of his serious injury. He rehabilitated himself physically and improved his value on the court. The Spurs were trying to contend at the time so they kept him around, but in an alternate universe (as many here advocated) Gay could have been flipped for draft capital. Collins can bring value back if he demonstrates he can play at a high level again. I don’t see much risk here but a lot of upside

  18. #293
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Side Note: not that it’s a big deal but why the did SA hard cap themselves unnecessarily with Doug for no asset if they weren’t going to S&T Collins too? Makes little sense.

  19. #294
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Doubt it. Collins in his second year is already a major contributor to a WCF team. He was a big reason they made it past DEN in 2019.
    Nah, it's not even close. Collins sucks. Forbes had a great series against Denver too. The Nuggets are just like that.

  20. #295
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Side Note: not that it’s a big deal but why the did SA hard cap themselves unnecessarily with Doug for no asset if they weren’t going to S&T Collins too? Makes little sense.
    Trading for McDermott was stupid, no doubt. But unless Portland was going to actually pay, there wasn't an inherent reason to trade for Collins. The Spurs would've had to give up something to make the deal legal, and I don't see why spending cash or worse further en bering a pick would've been beneficial to them. There were combinations of the moves they committed to that would've allowed them to get Collins while preserving cap space. But a deal like McD got wasn't that.

  21. #296
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Y’all are sleeping on Collins tbh huge injury concerns but if he’s healthy he’s going to be great for the squad.

  22. #297
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Y’all are sleeping on Collins tbh huge injury concerns but if he’s healthy he’s going to be great for the squad.

  23. #298
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    ^Keita played zero minutes at the PF position last year.
    Basically if Collins is a center, then Eubanks makes the most sense to get rid of. If he's a forward, KBD makes the most sense. How some scorers designated positions doesn't change that.

  24. #299
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Yeah the dude isn’t going to play for us this year. I hope he plays well next year though.

  25. #300
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Trading for McDermott was stupid, no doubt. But unless Portland was going to actually pay, there wasn't an inherent reason to trade for Collins. The Spurs would've had to give up something to make the deal legal, and I don't see why spending cash or worse further en bering a pick would've been beneficial to them. There were combinations of the moves they committed to that would've allowed them to get Collins while preserving cap space. But a deal like McD got wasn't that.
    No agree. I’m saying they had to know POr wasn’t going to pay for the ability to get a TE right? In my mind you don’t do the Doug trade unless you already have Collins trade worked out.

    Definitely don’t do 2 doug deals just for sake of it. But that’s the point; how do you do Doug deal if you don’t already have the other done?

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