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  1. #201
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    forbes is on a good contract, he's only making 3 mil per. if he just came off the bench and played the gary neal role, i'd love his presence on the team.

    but pop is dead set on making this guy a full time starter playing 27 minutes per game. he's not even shooting well this year either.
    Yup exact same stats as mills but worse shooting %'s

  2. #202
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Yup exact same stats as mills but worse shooting %'s
    And of all things, Mills is a better defender.

  3. #203
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    saw this earlier on realgm, not sure how accurate it is but it is not surprising in the least. skipping the part he has about best/worst offensive players since we have neither:

    A look at the best and worst rated players (using a 500 minute minimum for just guys playing starter minutes) by 538's new Raptor ranking at roughly a quarter of the way through the season. I usually find the bottom more interesting then the top in these sorts of ratings as you generally already know who's at the top


    Defense:



    Best:
    Gobert 6.2
    Harrell 5.3
    Butler 5.3
    J Allen 4.5
    A Davis 4.4
    Isaac 4.4
    OG 4.0
    Bam 3.9
    Giannis 3.8
    T Thomposn 3.7

    Worst:
    Forbes: -5.1
    Paschall -5.1
    Miles Bridges -4.4
    Booker -4.2
    DeRozan -4.1
    Garland -3.9
    Lou Will -3.9
    Trae Young -3.9
    Sexton -3.9
    Beal -3.8




    The top ranked defenders are mostly who you'd expect - strong defensive bigs, led by Gobert. Harrell isn't usually seen as this strong of a defender though and Jimmy Butler notably ranks high as a wing defender.

    The bottom ranked defenders are some kids mixed with offensive stars that are giving back a bunch on defense. Beal and Young bring enough offensive value to be solidly positive overall while Booker and Lou only get back to near even.

    Overall:



    Best:
    Harden 13.0
    Doncic 10.2
    Giannis 9.8
    Butler 9.6
    LeBron 9.1
    Towns 8.2
    Harrell 8.0
    A Davis 5.5
    Lillard 5.4
    Isaac 5.1
    J Allen 5.1

    Worst:
    Garland -7.6
    Poole -5.9
    Miles Bridges -5.9
    Lauri M -5.9
    Paschall -5.7
    Ingles -5.6
    Forbes -4.7
    Bryant -4.6
    Westbrook -3.6
    DeRozan -3.4
    Hunter -3.4





    jesus man....by 538's RAPTOR rating system Forbes it the worst defender in the NBA that's getting rotational minutes and of course Derozan not far behind him. it's 100% obvious why SA sucks so bad

  4. #204
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Yeah, just play Forbes 25m+ every game, it's not like you have a talented, young, promising SG/SF rotting on the bench...

  5. #205
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    3) His man picks off DeRozan in transition. Forbes should have either switched or at least helped enough to allow DeRozan to recover. He did neither. DeRozan forced to foul. DeRozan with the not-so-subtle expletives in Forbes' general direction.
    I didn't even watch the video you posted, and I remember this play from the game. I recall thinking who was the idiot that didn't switch to stop the ball, and yep, sure enough, it was Forbes lost on D per par.

  6. #206
    Spurs are Lottery Bound. SequSpur's Avatar
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    Uh Bryn Forbes is one of the top 2-3 players the Spurs have. Most consistent. Only dude that can hit a shot.. Only dude that busts his ass every second of the game... What are you watching timvp?

  7. #207
    Spurs are Lottery Bound. SequSpur's Avatar
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    I see the stats, but put down the newspaper and watch a game. Forbes kicks ass. Tonight as well.

  8. #208
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    SequSpur, you think he's adequately sized to compete on defense as a starter?

  9. #209
    You have no idea UZER's Avatar
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    Pop still with the Patty Forbes lineup in OT.

    The only reason Pop got away with Forbes so much was because Westchuck was in full effect. He was getting exposed on D except when WB bailed him out over and over by chucking.

  10. #210
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    I see the stats, but put down the newspaper and watch a game. Forbes kicks ass. Tonight as well.
    Except, Forbes has trouble kicking ass on defense when he's running around lost, ten yards from the ass he's been assigned to kick.

  11. #211
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    I just watched the replay to see if I was being too hard on Forbes. I wasn't. That bas is SO lost on defense, so often it should be criminal. Not saying he never does anything good, or that he doesn't make shots. But he's sitting in No Man's Land swiveling his head a lot. Damn near everything he giveth, he taketh away.

  12. #212
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    Uh Bryn Forbes is one of the top 2-3 players the Spurs have. Most consistent. Only dude that can hit a shot.. Only dude that busts his ass every second of the game... What are you watching timvp?
    LMFAO! bro... Even I can go out there and bust my ass... Doesn't stop me from being trash and doesn't stop the team from being better offensively when I'm on the bench (as is the case with Forbes)

  13. #213
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Uh Bryn Forbes is one of the top 2-3 players the Spurs have. Most consistent. Only dude that can hit a shot.. Only dude that busts his ass every second of the game... What are you watching timvp?
    Pop is that you?

    Forbes would be good off the bench, just not starting. He's the best player in the NBA when it comes to pull ups after one dribble, 73% eFG. One of Mills/Forbes has to go

  14. #214
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Pop is that you?

    Forbes would be good off the bench, just not starting. He's the best player in the NBA when it comes to pull ups after one dribble, 73% eFG. One of Mills/Forbes has to go
    I would consult the actuarial tables . . .

  15. #215
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    He's the best player in the NBA when it comes to pull ups after one dribble, 73% eFG.

    That sounds like a marketing opportunity. Just leave out the part where shooting over him turns scrubs into All-Stars. And running through him. And around him.

    Having Forbes in the SL is like finding a $100 bill, but having a hole in your pocket and losing it... plus all the other money you worked for. He's money - you just don't get to keep it.

  16. #216
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    Unfortunately we need his shooting, he has to start. We are the worst team shooting the 3.

  17. #217
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Unfortunately we need his shooting, he has to start. We are the worst team shooting the 3.
    No, that doesn't mean he has to start. It only implies he should play significant minutes.

  18. #218
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Hey with this edgy take, just how soon can we expect the HOF - best coach in NBA to realize Bryn needs to moved from starter?

  19. #219
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    Unfortunately we need his shooting, he has to start. We are the worst team shooting the 3.
    We are also the worst defensive team...the person who will be replacing him can also shoot threes and play a LOT more defense

  20. #220
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    No one seems to get this. They didn't get it on page 2 of this thread (see below) and they still don't.

    The naivete of talking about Forbes like he's supposed to be a defensive stopper would just make people who make a living at this (employed NBA personnel) laugh out loud.

    Timvp has assembled an impressive case against Forbes but I'll push back a bit.

    Most teams, good or bad, start a guard who is weak on D. It's kind of like having a starting pitcher who can't hit -- when comparing such pitchers, you don't talk about which pitcher hits worse (who really cares) you talk about who is the better pitcher. That's what they're paid to do and that's their value.

    Forbes' value will be determined by his offensive performance -- especially on a team as desperate for three-point shooting as the Spurs. Take a look at Game 7 of the Denver series and then straight-face the claim that he hurts this team.

    And if you want to evaluate weak defensive guards within a team defense (like the Spurs'), I would suggest you start with looking at how often that guard is out of position. Forbes holds up fairly well under that standard. For example, in both of the clips in the article, Forbes was between his man an the basket. Small praise but at least better than Lonnie Walker who often wanders around close to half court like he's playing a one-man zone against the Jumbotron. (And with Walker's offensive potential, he shouldn't be evaluated only on his defense either.) In short, staying in front of your man doesn't break down a team defense nearly as badly as completely losing your man does.

    As far as attempting to extrapolate Forbes' defensive play by looking at team defense statistics when he's in, I think that's a reach. I'm not a fan of +/- analysis and such stats seem to be venturing dangerously into that territory. Believe your eyes -- Forbes seems to always hit a big three when the team most needs it, when the team is going bad. Those are statement shots that can affect the game much more than the same shot in a less critical situation.

    Pop has taken a lot of heat here lately during this losing streak, some of it deserved. But when it comes to evaluating defense, I'll defer to him every day of the week. Pop absolutely will not play anyone who misses defensive assignments and yet he starts Forbes.

    So is Forbes a defensive liability? Absolutely. Does he hurt the team as a starter? I think not.

  21. #221
    You have no idea UZER's Avatar
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    Forbes starting is really dumb. Forbes closing is just asinine.

  22. #222
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    With White/Lonnie showing both can hit the 3, there’s no reason Forbes should be starting with no defense.

  23. #223
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Uh Bryn Forbes is one of the top 2-3 players the Spurs have. Most consistent. Only dude that can hit a shot.. Only dude that busts his ass every second of the game... What are you watching timvp?
    My problem with Forbes has been the same problem I've always had with Mills, what does it matter if you drop 20 but give up 25 on the other end? He's not Harden or any other similar player, his offense, no matter how good, will never make up for his shortcomings on defense.

  24. #224
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    No one seems to get this. They didn't get it on page 2 of this thread (see below) and they still don't.

    The naivete of talking about Forbes like he's supposed to be a defensive stopper would just make people who make a living at this (employed NBA personnel) laugh out loud.
    We get the stupid point you're trying to make, but you're wrong.

  25. #225
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    No one seems to get this. They didn't get it on page 2 of this thread (see below) and they still don't.

    The naivete of talking about Forbes like he's supposed to be a defensive stopper would just make people who make a living at this (employed NBA personnel) laugh out loud.

    ENOUGH already! Who the expects Bryn ing Forbes to be a "defensive stopper"? Show me what you're talking about, because I don't think anybody said that ever. He's arguably the worst defensive player in the league. If not THE worst, then certainly close to the bottom. Nobody thinks he's going to be a defensive stopper, and nobody expects that. Nobody. So either show where people are expecting Forbes to be a defensive stopper or shut that straw man down.

    We've watched games this year where play after play the other team goes looking specifically for Forbes as a scoring opportunity. I don't give a rat's ass if he puts up 50 a game, if he's giving up 70 easy points to the other team. (I guess I should scale that down for you: I don't give a rat's ass if he puts up 13 a game, if he's giving up 20 easy points to the other team.)

    Nobody is down on Brynn because he's not the second coming of Bruce Bowen. It's because he's a non-defender most of the time. Does he ever get in a defensive lick? Sure. But I could set out a traffic cone, and occasionally someone would stumble over it.

    The point of the article is that he can't be a starter in the NBA. That's true. Just as important, he can't be a starter alongside DDR, because the two of them make a hole you can drive a semi truck through. And if it's a choice between DDR and Forbes, there really isn't a choice. Forbes should not be starting on this team, as constructed.

    Oh, and your statement that he always makes a 3 just when the team really needs it? He's averaging 13 points per game, period. It's 13 points, no matter where it comes. Maybe if he'd made a couple of 3's earlier in the game, the team wouldn't be in such need later. He makes enough 3's to average 13 ppg. THAT is who he is on offense. On defense, he's a hill that the other players have to climb constantly.

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