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  1. #176
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    True, by definition. The only sniffer who even dares to enter this thread is me and even I'm not going to challenge you on it, tbh. I think the Spurs problems are deeping than coaching and a lot of it is Spurs fans adjusting to how the real NBA operates outside of the Big Three dreamland we lived in for two decades ... but, I mean, blaming Pop is what about 90% of ST does. Pretty cold take given the company, tbh.
    Pop has something to do with it. They needed a rebuild but instead he chose a package based on Derozan. And chose to pay Pau and Patty and stand pat.

    I don’t think he wants to coach youngins or a rebuild properly and it’s why he chose Derozan. It’s not necessarily what was best for the team long term. He’s simply too old to coach a young team through a rebuild. At his age he’s not going to coach for enough years to be able to see them through when they finally improve. He’s old. It’s time to retire. Happens to everyone eventually if you live long enough.

  2. #177
    5. timvp's Avatar
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  3. #178
    Believe.
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    Welcome to the real NBA, tbh. Winning is hard, especially when you don't have a superstar.

    Question: If the best basketball coach in the world were coaching the Spurs, how much of a difference would it make? Would these Spurs be championship contenders?

    IMO, you guys are putting too much stock in ambiguous theories like "not enough engagement", "need more compe ive fire", "team quit on the coach", etc. This is what it's like when the NBA team you root for doesn't have a superstar or anything close to a superstar, tbh.
    It's not really any of that...it's the logical basketball sense stuff...

    Like...we don't know if Lonnie Walker is good at basketball...and we need to find out if Lonnie Walker is good at basketball...because he is the highest actual draft pick we have had since Tim Duncan (not counting Kawhi since that was a trade for that pick)...but the reason why we can't find out if Lonnie Walker is good at basketball is because Pop keeps playing Marco Belinelli...who is 33 years old and on a 1 year deal...Marco is shooting career lows in 2 pointers...3 pointers...and near career lows in virtually every other basketball category...so why is he playing in front of a guy who we need to found out sooner rather than later if he can play? What is the logical sense in it? Who is the other team in the nba who has a second year first round pick sitting on the bench because they are playing a 33 year old having the worst year of his career on a 1 year deal? The answer is no one...so why are we doing it? How does playing Marco over Lonnie make us better in the short term? How does it make us better in the long term?

    The nba is actually the opposite of this...in todays nba teams are very eager to play a young player in hopes that he is ready to play...so they can try to move an older more expensive player for something that is more useful to their team...so why are the spurs doing the exact opposite of that...

    Why is Pop playing 3 of his 4 worst defenders after the defense went through a stretch of being atrocious? Did he think Mills, Marco, and Forbes were somehow going to make 3's and get defensive stops? They never do...so why would Pop think that?

    Pop and his mad scientist lineups are nothing new...except for this time...because he is playing these mill / forbes/ belli lineups that got DESTROYED last year...so why is he doing it again right now? He has a player in Lonnie who at least will keep him from having to play his 2 worst defenders at the same time...so why is he not doing that?

  4. #179
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    1) Good answer to your own question. I pretty much agree. However, the Spurs operate slowly. They always have -- and it has served them well. We don't know if they are trying to compete or if they are trying to go for a rebuild. Them not extending DeRozan sounds more like a slower motion rebuild. I agree with taking their time and avoiding costly blunders. Blowing it up right away doesn't help anything if the moves aren't good ones. Not all draft picks are Robinson and Duncan, so you have to have a deeper plan than simply to tear it down to the foundation.
    Sure, I”m not saying take the first offer in a LMA/DeRozan deal or that all picks are good. I’m saying SA’s process has cost them value in terms of blowing it up but that is still ok. Because if they aren’t going to do something to help win now, then any extra picks are better than just losing DeRozan for nothing and maybe LMA.

    I know not all picks are equal, but getting assets is a good thing; losing DeRozan/LMA for nothing is very poor management. I also think that taking DeRozan over other packages is a clear signal they want to be as compe ive as possible. Regardless of the extension, they choose that path, re-signed an aging Rudy and traded for an aging Carroll. There are way more signs that they prioritize being compe ive now (and they have failed then).



    2) Disagree with your answer. Fun? IDGAF about fun, tbh. I want the Spurs to win. And teams that "focus, prepare and battle" don't lose many games, tbh, so that's some circular logic there. I think Spurs fans should judge them on if they believe the Spurs are on the right path. Personally, I think it's tough to tell but I'm hopeful.
    Fair enough. I’m not saying I want to be the Globtrotters or something, but for me personally, yeah, watching Murray/White/Lonnie and a team that competes is fun. I don’t agree with your assessment that teams that focus, prepare and battle can’t lose many games. Even younger, exciting teams lose many games; that does not mean that they didn’t compete and focus most nights. Sometimes there are just growing pains and you expect that with younger guys with upside.

    I want to win too and that is the most fun thing; I”m saying watching the team lose and with HOW they lose is not fun. If White/Murray/Lonnie were out there and SA was losing but they were flying around and locking guys up for long stretches, yeah, that’s still fun for me.

    3) See, this is where we disagree. You want something to happen RIGHT NOW!! while I want smart moves. I don't care about the timeline of the moves. Make wise decisions; that's all I care about.
    I want something to happen right now because this is a disaster. If Pop were being rational and everyone was engaged (LMA, Pop, DeRozan) then I would be more patient. But do you not agree that something seems really wrong and that something needs to change? You want to slog through an entire season of this and lose DeRozan and maybe LMA for nothing?

    There is a difference in panic and honest assessment. I don’t think SA was honest with their assessment of this team and it’s showing up now.

    And by your logic, would trading for DeRozan, re-signing Gay and all of that not classify as....not smart at this point?

    4) Well, to be fair, you said the sign of an engaged coach is one who challenges calls. That happened tonight so you must have been happy with that, I assume. This question overall though is too vague to answer. Need more specific questions unless you're expecting me to write a novel off of your writing prompt.
    That’s not what I said; it’s PART of what I said and it was on the smaller end of what I thought to be an engaged coach. To be more specific: with how things are playing out right now (the level of defense, the losses, etc..), do you think there should be immediate lineup changes based on performance? More importantly, whether Pop does it or not, should he be playing Lonnie and White and Murray more and together?

  5. #180
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    No offense intended but it's easy to sniff when the team you root for is a championship contender blessed with at least one superstar. Holding onto the sniffer card when the real NBA hits is the calling card of sniffing greatness.

    - Based on ST I don’t know that I can agree with you on that one. Even when winning, there seemed to be more haters of TP, Manu and/or PATFO than sniffers tbh...

  6. #181
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    it’s just basketball

  7. #182
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    The universe is bigger than just haters and sniffers. That reductionist approach has worn pretty thin.

    Ultimately Pop calls the shots, and has for quite a while. It may be collaborative, but nothing has gotten done over his dead body. That's a two-edged sword. He has gotten a LOT of credit for good things - he's got to be given responsibility for the bad.

    The Spurs (Pop) failed to navigate the new salary cap realities effectively, and kept this team in salary cap jail for too long, while the overall talent level dropped. Any way you look at it, the Pau and Patty contracts were bad and costly.

    The Spurs (Pop) failed to adapt to the way the game is being played and called. They continued to bring in players that were lesser versions of the same old style of play that used to work but won't anymore.

    The Spurs (Pop) failed to accept the fact that you can't go forever without rebuilding. All the other teams in the league get regular talent infusions from the draft that you just cant get down in the mid to late 20's. We congratulate them for finding guys like George Hill at 26. But that same draft had Derrick Rose, and Westbrook, and Love, and Gallinari, and a bunch more. Those teams didn't have to use any draft genius to get better players than Hill. And while Kawhi was a steal at 15, the Spurs still had to give up their genius George Hill pick to get him. Instead of adding talent to talent, they got an upgrade.
    Over a couple of decades, that disparity is a drain.

    The point is, they should have bitten the bullet on rebuilding. They didn't, and that is ultimately on Pop. The problem now is that they delayed too long, and they just don't have much in the way of trade value to try and get pieces to complement a lottery player. They could have gotten value from players to faciliate a rebuild. Now they just about have to take things down to bare metal and build from there.

    I blame a lot of that on Pop's arrogance and hard-headedness. That's one of the things about you humans - your greatest strengths can also be your greatest weaknesses.

  8. #183
    Believe.
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    Pop has something to do with it. They needed a rebuild but instead he chose a package based on Derozan. And chose to pay Pau and Patty and stand pat.

    I don’t think he wants to coach youngins or a rebuild properly and it’s why he chose Derozan. It’s not necessarily what was best for the team long term. He’s simply too old to coach a young team through a rebuild. At his age he’s not going to coach for enough years to be able to see them through when they finally improve. He’s old. It’s time to retire. Happens to everyone eventually if you live long enough.
    Preach. Pop has placed his legacy over what’s best for the organization. That’s a fire-able offense

  9. #184
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    i can't tell if it's just that they aren't engaged enough or if they really are giving it their all and it ain't enough. I'm back to wondering if there is something we don't know about again. I thought that before the LMA 'I can't miss' game and then thought I had jumped to conclusions. This three game skid feels different. They weren't playing with any urgency by the looks of it.

  10. #185
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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  11. #186
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Sniffer Question - How many losses before you think Pop should do something about the lineups/rotations?

  12. #187
    2004-2005 NBA Champions Barfunk's Avatar
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    Sniffer Question - How many losses before you think Pop should do something about the lineups/rotations?
    Lol gotta admit the the whole sniffer thing is pretty funny

  13. #188
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Sniffer Question - How many losses before you think Pop should do something about the lineups/rotations?
    Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.

  14. #189
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.
    Regardless of what Pop will do, what do you think he should do.

  15. #190
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Side note: have not seen any data, but it feels like DeRozan has been the worst crunch time player in the league this year. Unmitigated disaster.

  16. #191
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Regardless of what Pop will do, what do you think he should do.
    Start by playing Murray and White more and stop playing Patty at PG. Then cut Belinelli out and replace with either DeMarre or LWIV?

    HBY?

    Side note: have not seen any data, but it feels like DeRozan has been the worst crunch time player in the league this year. Unmitigated disaster.
    What's weird is he was a crunch time killer with the Raptors in his last couple years there.

  17. #192
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    Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.
    without Steve Smith getting hurt and missing games 2 through 9, I doubt Jackson ever gets the chance to play big minutes and worm his way into relevancy

    I don't know if any amount of losing by itself would do the trick. If Marco or Mills or DeMar missed 8 straight games, then it would be a real opportunity to see what Walker or Carroll could have to offer, not just in one-off stints like has happened so far

  18. #193
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Start by playing Murray and White more and stop playing Patty at PG. Then cut Belinelli out and replace with either DeMarre or LWIV?

    HBY?
    Agreed. I’d look at starting White too, not just playing them more (that too).


    What's weird is he was a crunch time killer with the Raptors in his last couple years there.
    Yup. Heck, I feel even last year he was solid enough. This year? Not only has he been bad - it’s like he’s being paid to throw games.

  19. #194
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.
    Start by playing Murray and White more and stop playing Patty at PG. Then cut Belinelli out and replace with either DeMarre or LWIV
    Nice.

    Pretty novel ideas there, sounds a lot like what a bunch of edgelords have been calling for. But I trust the HOF coach who's been around for 20 years tbh.

  20. #195
    Veteran Floyd Pacquiao's Avatar
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    Nice.

    Pretty novel ideas there, sounds a lot like what a bunch of edgelords have been calling for. But I trust the HOF coach who's been around for 20 years tbh.
    For the life of me I have no idea why pop is so ing blind to the obvious.

  21. #196
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    How dare any of the edgelords suggest that Pop play two of his best players at the same time and give a guy who dominated summer league a few minutes instead of a player having statistically one of the worst seasons in NBA history.

  22. #197
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    2nd worst net rating in the entire NBA

    "We have been kicking ass"

  23. #198
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Regardless of what Pop will do, what do you think he should do.
    start Carroll and Rudy Gay, move DeRozan to SG. Start White at PG. Play Lonnie Walker with the bench. But even better than all of this would be ending his career and trading half the roster

  24. #199
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Nice.

    Pretty novel ideas there, sounds a lot like what a bunch of edgelords have been calling for. But I trust the HOF coach who's been around for 20 years tbh.
    To be fair, I was calling for the same things back in preseason while you were marveling at Bryn Forbes' "redemption arc"

  25. #200
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    start Carroll and Rudy Gay, move DeRozan to SG. Start White at PG. Play Lonnie Walker with the bench. But even better than all of this would be ending his career and trading half the roster
    START Carroll? he can't even get on the court in garbage time. He will be the first Spur to depart. I don't know how PATFO signs a free agent to 7MM/3 yrs to bury him on the bench. Didn't they talk to the guy before they signed him and realize they hated him beforehand?

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