Grades: Spurs vs. Jazz - Jan. 3, 2021

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Three point shooting killed us, but part of that is we have not been able to defend the lane since LMA went out. Our guys are sagging to help Poetl and we're giving up open threes. If we get out and defend the perimeter, teams can just run over us inside. Our team is little.

We also need White. I hope Jones starts getting more run, because we need a point guard. Mills is a little shooting guard and energy off the bench. Who know what Murray is...a short 3?

Unfortunately the holes in our lineup remain. I like the youth movement, and I think we need our two primary vets available and playing, LMA and Demar, more than folks care to admit. I'd be fine phasing out Mills, Gay and Lyles if we could find suitable replacements.

[timvp]

Heavily disagree on Pop's grade, tbh (was expecting it, though). Of course no on-court coaching can make up for the deficiencies... Pop should be making it up in other facets of coaching - film room (seemingly non-existent for this team, as they consistently make the same mistakes), training sessions, all play a part in how the team performs. The team being outmatched from the jump is not a coincidence, and the fact that it happened against a far-from-elite team is even more a sign that something's fundamentally off in SA's gameplans.

Compared to the Spurs, the Jazz are pretty elite, if we're being honest about the situation. And that's before you factor in the Spurs being without two of their three top players. Last night, unquestionably the Jazz had the top two players on the court in Mitc and Gobert -- and maybe more depending on how you want to rank Conley and Bogandovic.

So, yeah, while excuses are lame in most cir stances, it's just odd to pretend that these are two evenly matched teams and that San Antonio lost because their "training sessions" weren't good enough. The Spurs lost primarily because the Jazz are a better team, have better players and have more cohesion due to experience playing together. Add in factors such as Murray not being able to make a shot, Poeltl uncharacteristically getting exploited on defense on all three levels and a starting lineup in 2021 with one made three-pointer and there's really no need to reach for nebulous explanations like a lack of quality training sessions.

Is Quin Snyder a better coach than Pop these days? Yeah, I mean, probably. But the impact of coaching in the NBA, especially in the regular season, is highly overrated. Give Snyder the Spurs roster and give Pop the Jazz roster and the outcomes would basically be the same.

Spurs fans like to overrate their team, underrate the opponent and then overrate the impact of coaching. Once Pop retires and there's someone else in charge, there will be a rude awakening that coaching wasn't what caused the fall from grace.

Luka...idk, looks like the worst pick current front office has made. No injury excuses or anything. He just looks like he wants to go home.

Welcome, LeBowen. That username makes me a fan of you already

I don't think you can really take anything from Luka's play in garbage time. The guy has barely played any compe iveness basketball in the last year. Him being extremely rusty and getting tired fast is to be expected.

Luka was always a home run swing of pick. Considering he was a below average player in the Slovenian league just two years ago, the soonest he was going to be ready was Year 3 ... and that was in an ideal situation. If the Spurs knew a pandemic would halt the first G League season, erase summer league and neuter the next G League season, they probably wouldn't have selected a project. But, regardless, he's still an athletic big who can shoot threes, which would make him valuable if he figures it out. I haven't seen anything out of him yet that makes it clear he's an NBA player ... but the opposite is true too. He has the tools. Hopefully the G League starts up soon so he can work on those tools and so we can get a better idea of if he's progressing. Five minutes of garbage time out of the blue isn't the stage where that could be determined.

[r0drig0lac]

But the impact of coaching in the NBA, especially in the regular season, is highly overrated. Give Snyder the Spurs roster and give Pop the Jazz roster and the outcomes would basically be the same.
Spurs fans like to overrate their team, underrate the opponent and then overrate the impact of coaching.

true

[Dejounte]

Agreed. Pop can't put his hands up on the defenders and make them miss. That's the players' job. Our players were way out of position and too slow to rotate.

[Mnky]

Patty is definitely putting his stock up there for trades with his scoring this year, but he wants to be in SA which makes it hard for me to think they'll move him. If we continue trending lottery area, I do see some desperate contenders making a pitch for our vets. Draft picks or a young contract year player might be plausible this year more so than others. The intention was to compete for the playoffs. That's what all the vets and coaches said in the offseason.

Let's see if the vets tunes change.

[phxspurfan]

didn't watch. But looks bad, man. We're not back, boys!

[JeffDuncan]

I don't think you can really take anything from Luka's play in garbage time. The guy has barely played any compe iveness basketball in the last year. Him being extremely rusty and getting tired fast is to be expected.

No, sir, that is not expected, about Luka getting tired in 6:17 of game clock time. He should not have shown any sign at all of fatigue. None at all.

What has he had to do, except work on his game, and get in shape, and stay in shape? What other full time job does he have, that forces him to sit at a desk 8 hours a day, and get out of shape? None that I know of.

Now, it is true that game conditions are more demanding than a typical 5 on 5 practice session with frequent stops for instruction. But games are not more demanding than running wind sprints - hard - up and down the court. And not more demanding than running the steps hard, and doing the other things players do, to get in shape and stay in shape.

He should not have looked tired. 6:17 of game time, at age 21, should have been a stroll in the park. It has to be asked, is he even healthy?

[John B]

Luka has the handles, spin moves to get by his defender, but 4 weak dunk attempts. One ugly missed 3pt attempt that ricocheted and almost beheaded Ewwbanks . 1 made 3pt.
He looked winded, compare to Vassell who looks more springy, while straight from college.
Yup I think Luka came back not in good condition.

[timvp]

No, sir, that is not expected, about Luka getting tired in 6:17 of game clock time. He should not have shown any sign at all of fatigue. None at all.

What has he had to do, except work on his game, and get in shape, and stay in shape? What other full time job does he have, that forces him to sit at a desk 8 hours a day, and get out of shape? None that I know of.

Now, it is true that game conditions are more demanding than a typical 5 on 5 practice session with frequent stops for instruction. But games are not more demanding than running wind sprints - hard - up and down the court. And not more demanding than running the steps hard, and doing the other things players do, to get in shape and stay in shape.

He should not have looked tired. 6:17 of game time, at age 21, should have been a stroll in the park. It has to be asked, is he even healthy?

Yeah, no, that's not how it works. You can't simulate NBA basketball in any other setting. I don't care which player in history you name, if they've only played one real game in the last nine months, they are going to get winded easily.

[ginobilized]

Ugly game for the Spurs, not too surprising. 2 questions:

How serious is White's re-injury?
Is it too early to think that we might be heading toward the lottery, again?

[jjspur]

The Lakers and Utah just have a lot more size and a bit more talent than we do. Our bigs just don't do all that much. Without an injured Aldridge, what are we getting from our bigs 10-15 points maybe ? The days of even a 37 year old Duncan are long gone. Its going to be a long season if things continue like this. Come on RC lets trade for big that can actually help. I'd even be glad for someone 6'9" who can play some defense and rebound a bit.

[LeBowen]

Welcome, LeBowen. That username makes me a fan of you already

Thanks.

I don't think you can really take anything from Luka's play in garbage time. The guy has barely played any compe iveness basketball in the last year. Him being extremely rusty and getting tired fast is to be expected.

Luka was always a home run swing of pick. Considering he was a below average player in the Slovenian league just two years ago, the soonest he was going to be ready was Year 3 ... and that was in an ideal situation. If the Spurs knew a pandemic would halt the first G League season, erase summer league and neuter the next G League season, they probably wouldn't have selected a project. But, regardless, he's still an athletic big who can shoot threes, which would make him valuable if he figures it out. I haven't seen anything out of him yet that makes it clear he's an NBA player ... but the opposite is true too. He has the tools. Hopefully the G League starts up soon so he can work on those tools and so we can get a better idea of if he's progressing. Five minutes of garbage time out of the blue isn't the stage where that could be determined.

Yeah, garbage time was really garbage last night. I guess we're all frustrated because he obviously has great handless and a good shot for someone his size, but his body language is so off.
Maybe he's just disappointed that he never got any real minutes. Minutes have to be earned, but considering how much the likes of Forbes, Marco, Trey and even Rudy played, he should've had more chances.

From what I've seen, noone in Europe talked about him, he had no exposure. Even kids like Pokusevski were hyped up way more.
I guess RC was scared of Sean Marks taking him so he somewhat wasted the 19th pick. Luka looks like an early second round project.
G league being cancelled is obviously a big hit to his development, as you said. But for me it's about body language. He just looks like someone who's really disappointed in his current situation. And idk if he has for example Keldon's mental for ude to keep grinding. Averaged 15/8 in G-league. Not like he was completely useless. I guess Pop would still rather see Rudy and Patty chuck and win us 1 out of 5 games while being trash in the other 4 than have young players grow into their roles. As I already said, imo Lonnie is the biggest victim of this. Let him run the second unit. So we can see where he's actually at.

Since Pop rarely goes away from his usual methods, unless someone really impresses like Keldon, Luka won't be an actual member of the rotation for 2 more years. G-league this season, 9th-12th in rotation next year and a full-time rotation player in 2023. To me, he doesn't look like someone ready to work a couple more seasons before he gets actual minutes. Hopefully I'm wrong, because if he ever puts it together, he would be perfect PF for current core.

[JeffDuncan]

Yeah, no, that's not how it works. You can't simulate NBA basketball in any other setting. I don't care which player in history you name, if they've only played one real game in the last nine months, they are going to get winded easily.

We will disagree on this point. Enough cardio-respiratory conditioning can be gained in ways other than playing in NBA games. He should not have been winded in 6:17 on the game clock - which was not continuous action since he, himself, went to the free throw line.

What might show up is muscle soreness the next day, from a different use of muscle groups. But CR, no, not in just 6 minutes.

[Kurgan]

Considering he was a below average player in the Slovenian league just two years ago, the soonest he was going to be ready was Year 3 ... and that was in an ideal situation. If the Spurs knew a pandemic would halt the first G League season, erase summer league and neuter the next G League season, they probably wouldn't have selected a project. But, regardless, he's still an athletic big who can shoot threes, which would make him valuable if he figures it out. I haven't seen anything out of him yet that makes it clear he's an NBA player ... but the opposite is true too. He has the tools. Hopefully the G League starts up soon so he can work on those tools and so we can get a better idea of if he's progressing. Five minutes of garbage time out of the blue isn't the stage where that could be determined.

Thunder drafted a project big this year and they have no problem finding 15 mpg for him. If there's no G-League, I see no reason why Spurs can't give Luka a similar amount of playing time. It's not like we're a playoff team this year. What longterm value is there in giving minutes to players like Patty/Gay/Lyles when they'll all be gone next year?

[timvp]

Thunder drafted a project big this year and they have no problem finding 15 mpg for him.

How's that going for him? Does he have his field goal percentage above 10% yet?

[DAF86]

How's that going for him? Does he have his field goal percentage above 10% yet?

Aside from his shot not falling, he actually looked pretty good for a prospect that suppossedly is 3 years away. Specially on defense, which was the main concern regarding him. He's proving to have the quickness to stay in front of most players (on one possession he was switched into Donovan Mitc , stayed in front of him and blocked his shot) and he's already showing his "do-it allness" playmaking on that end, exemplified by the fact that he's averaging 4 rebounds, 1 steal and 1 block in 16 minutes of play (8, 2.3 and 2.3 per 36). Once he gets confidence on offense watch out. He would definitely benefit from the G-league coming back and getting some reps as a primary ball-handler. Right now he's doing a lot of screen setting and spotting up, which isn't his game.

Imho, he's a "stayer". At worst, he has a long career as a depth guy that comes in and provides a little bit of everything. I don't see him as the boom-or-bust prospect most folks thought he would be. He can definitely fill a role, even if his "unicorn" potential doesn't quite materialize.

[XDT76]

Did we used up all our luck for the bigs on DRob and Timmy. All our bigs comes back this year worse than last. Also why is Luka played a position down in pre-season and the last game? His strength at PF is negated at SF.

[ragas]

Yeah, no, that's not how it works. You can't simulate NBA basketball in any other setting. I don't care which player in history you name, if they've only played one real game in the last nine months, they are going to get winded easily.

I fully understand that it's hard for a player like Luka to get on track. He hardly played a full g-league season, but if it comes to conditioning I wouldn't give him a pass. This guy is 21 years old and he should be ready to run till he goes down.

[tmtcsc]

Yeah, no, that's not how it works. You can't simulate NBA basketball in any other setting. I don't care which player in history you name, if they've only played one real game in the last nine months, they are going to get winded easily.

C'mon LJ, with that sort of logic, everyone on the team would have looked winded in the first 6:17 seconds of game #1. Derrick White didn't look as winded as Samanic in his minutes against the Lakers. Luka was clearly winded much earlier than he should have been no matter the amount of games he's played. Are they not scrimmaging in practice? Did he do any sort of training or cardio work? We're not talking about him looking winded AFTER 6:17 of game time. He was dragging much sooner than that & never gained a second wind. He scored 16 points against the Jazz in 31 minutes of the last game in the bubble. No excuse for him looking so tired the other night.

[tmtcsc]

Ugly game for the Spurs, not too surprising. 2 questions:

How serious is White's re-injury?
Is it too early to think that we might be heading toward the lottery, again?

No, not too early to think Lottery. White's missed games coupled with Aldridge's menstrual cramps & Murray's too often disappearing act will have this team sniffing lottery once again.