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  1. #1626
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Love the kids game and old school aggressive mentality. Above average footwork and good understanding of defensive assignments. His inside game on offense and defense are great.

    If the kid was a good athlete, he would likely be top 5-10 area. Unfortunately not a great athlete and most of his compe ion was worse. Hard to get a read on how that translates to the Bigs of the NBA which is dominated by quickness and explosiveness. He's young and could easily develop that body of his. Would love him as a prospect but not in The lottery range.
    If you have the complete skill set, you don’t have to be a top flight athlete. Doncic probably couldn’t jump over a phone book.

    If he were a top flight athlete on top of those skills, he wouldn’t be 5-10, he’d be top 3.

  2. #1627
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I didn't think Avdija looked all that bad considering he had no summer league or training camp.
    He played 23 minutes, scored 6 points, grabbed 5 boards, and dished about 1 assist. His shooting line was .417/.315/.644.

  3. #1628
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    Minor shake-up on my draft board:

    I can’t help but shake the feeling that Bouknight has real star potential. While I love Moody’s skillset and physical profile, I’m leaning slightly towards Bouk now because I see a sort of more immediate rise to s om for him. Moody will be good, but it may take a few years to have a breakthrough, if he even has that in him. I love the takeover mentality that Bouk has, and Moody might be lacking in that area. But again, it may be that he simply wanted to play the role he was asked to do by his coach and something like that shouldn’t be seen as a negative. So for now, Bouk is slightly ahead for me for the time being. It’s really a toss up between these two.
    I'm still pretty high on Moody's longer-term future... My board has changed a bit to but, mostly in the middle to lower part of the 1st rd.

    1. Cade Cunningham
    2. Jonathan Kuminga
    3. Evan Mobley
    4. Jalen Green
    5. Jalen Suggs
    6. Franz Wagner
    7. Moses Moody
    8. Corey Kispert
    9. Jalen Johnson
    10. Scottie Barnes
    11. Keon Johnson
    12. Alperen Sengun
    13. Jared Butler
    14. James Bouknight
    15. Josh Giddey
    16. Tre Mann
    17. Davion Mitc
    18. Sharife Cooper
    19. Kai Jones
    20. Usman Garuba
    21. Zaire Williams
    22. Jaden Springer
    23. Ayo Dosunmu
    24. Isaiah Jackson
    25. Chris Duarte
    26. Trey Murphy
    27. Roko Prkacin
    28. Miles McBride
    29. Cameron Thomas
    30. Bj Boston

  4. #1629
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    He played 23 minutes, scored 6 points, grabbed 5 boards, and dished about 1 assist. His shooting line was .417/.315/.644.
    Like I said. I saw him play a few games. I don't think he looked all that bad. He showed moments. Wizards were a mess at that time. I'm not saying he was a steal. I'm not saying he's a bust.

  5. #1630
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Like I said. I saw him play a few games. I don't think he looked all that bad. He showed moments. Wizards were a mess at that time. I'm not saying he was a steal. I'm not saying he's a bust.
    Everybody in the NBA has moments. , Bryn Forbes even has moments.

    Even as a rookie, you kind of hope for more from a top 10 pick. His shooting was pretty much as expected: abysmal.

  6. #1631
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    Everybody in the NBA has moments. , Bryn Forbes even has moments.

    Even as a rookie, you kind of hope for more from a top 10 pick. His shooting was pretty much as expected: abysmal.
    Well, I'm not here to start a discourse on Avdija.

  7. #1632
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not here to start a discourse on Avdija.
    Except, that’s exactly what you did. I simply comped him to Gidney, and you jumped right in.

  8. #1633
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Like I said. I saw him play a few games. I don't think he looked all that bad. He showed moments. Wizards were a mess at that time. I'm not saying he was a steal. I'm not saying he's a bust.
    Yeah, you're pretty much correct. Don't worry about it.

  9. #1634
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    Bouknight is interesting. Beyond the legal issue, I’m curious about his fit. If he actually is a budding star then obviously go with it. But can he be a star without a 3 point shot?

    He’s great attacking but does seem to have too much midrange in his game, which is probably the biggest concern I have. Also, would he fit with the way rookies are developed here? My intuition tells me he wouldn’t like it, but who knows? The Derek Anderson comp may be too fitting.

  10. #1635
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Bouknight is interesting. Beyond the legal issue, I’m curious about his fit. If he actually is a budding star then obviously go with it. But can he be a star without a 3 point shot?

    He’s great attacking but does seem to have too much midrange in his game, which is probably the biggest concern I have. Also, would he fit with the way rookies are developed here? My intuition tells me he wouldn’t like it, but who knows? The Derek Anderson comp may be too fitting.
    Problem, too, is he has extreme tunnel vision. Once he goes into moves, it's him and the other team, that's it.

  11. #1636
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Bouknight is interesting. Beyond the legal issue, I’m curious about his fit. If he actually is a budding star then obviously go with it. But can he be a star without a 3 point shot?

    He’s great attacking but does seem to have too much midrange in his game, which is probably the biggest concern I have. Also, would he fit with the way rookies are developed here? My intuition tells me he wouldn’t like it, but who knows? The Derek Anderson comp may be too fitting.
    Bouknight didn’t shoot well from outside, but his usage rate was huge, 31.6%, meaning he probably wasn’t selective. TaT projects him to shoot 35.6% in the NBA, probably because he won’t have to shoulder most of the load like he did at UCONN.

  12. #1637
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    Problem, too, is he has extreme tunnel vision. Once he goes into moves, it's him and the other team, that's it.
    Bouk, to me, is one of those guys you want to avoid at all costs.

    He’s like a hybrid of DDR (without the passing) and second half of the season Patty Mills (consistent chucker, no 3).
    He thrives off taking contested 2s and loves to make the iso plays.

    After watching LMA and DDR for the last few seasons, I would be happy if someone else buys into his game.

    Can you teach guys to pass, make the solid play at 21 years old?

  13. #1638
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    Team needs players who can create shots and y’all are having reservations about someone who actually has the capability to do that? I’m not completely on the Bouk boat but some of y’all either have poor memory of the team’s weaknesses or are balking at any sign of weaknesses from a prospect. Every prospect is going to have to require a leap of faith from you on what they can and can’t do. It boggles my mind that it’s an easier leap of faith for some people to believe Kai will develop a shot over Bouk becoming less selfish. Somehow Tony and Kawhi are the go-to examples for shooting improvement when we have DJ and Lonnie (and countless others in the league) showing us that it isn’t that easy.

    Bouk is as close as it gets to someone who can actually make a bucket outside of the top 6.

  14. #1639
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Team needs players who can create shots and y’all are having reservations about someone who actually has the capability to do that?
    Yes.

  15. #1640
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    Team needs players who can create shots and y’all are having reservations about someone who actually has the capability to do that? I’m not completely on the Bouk boat but some of y’all either have poor memory of the team’s weaknesses or are balking at any sign of weaknesses from a prospect. Every prospect is going to have to require a leap of faith from you on what they can and can’t do. It boggles my mind that it’s an easier leap of faith for some people to believe Kai will develop a shot over Bouk becoming less selfish. Somehow Tony and Kawhi are the go-to examples for shooting improvement when we have DJ and Lonnie (and countless others in the league) showing us that it isn’t that easy.

    Bouk is as close as it gets to someone who can actually make a bucket outside of the top 6.
    I've always been about BPA with the draft and taking a holistic approach to each and every prospect.
    My concerns with Bouk is that he hunts out the difficult shot and from mid range too.

    He has already dealt with a torn meniscus (sustained in his teens) and an elbow injury that required surgery and had him missing a month of action.
    One scout even suggested, "he wasn't the same player when he returned..." (in Feb.)

    You're right, shot creation is a problem with this team, but so is shot taking.
    Do we want a guy who can create his own shot in the mid range, freezes out teammates and has questions on his ability to hit a consistent 3 ball?

    He could become an elite scorer, or he could become an undersized Andrew Wiggins.

    For all of the warts in Kai Jones game (and there are plenty), he will not be expected (at least initially) to create high % attempts for his teammates.

    His P'nR numbers from memory were pretty ordinary. Can you simplify Bouknight's role initially to be a C&S threat? I don't know. He seems awfully streaky and selfish to me.

  16. #1641
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    A long way from the consistent reality but this sequence of play (on O and D) would have to give even the staunchest Kai Jones critic goosebumps...


  17. #1642
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    My concerns with Bouk is that he hunts out the difficult shot and from mid range too.



    You're right, shot creation is a problem with this team, but so is shot taking.
    Do we want a guy who can create his own shot in the mid range, freezes out teammates and has questions on his ability to hit a consistent 3 ball?
    It's preposterous to me that just because the Spurs are bad at 3-point shooting, that you now have a distorted view of mid-range shooting as if it's a negative thing. Mid-range shots have value. Nephew, PG, Doncic all have taken big shots in the mid-range during this year's playoffs. In fact, it can be argued that when either team got cold, their mid-range game saved them. The pace in the playoffs slow way down, and those ISO's you see that lead to mid-range shots often make or break the team. The league is not all about 3-point shooting. This year's playoffs is proof of that.


    His P'nR numbers from memory were pretty ordinary. Can you simplify Bouknight's role initially to be a C&S threat? I don't know. He seems awfully streaky and selfish to me.
    A big fat ing yes. If he gets drafted by the Spurs, they would have done their due diligence on his willingness to buy in.
    Last edited by Dejounte; 06-06-2021 at 08:11 PM.

  18. #1643
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    A long way from the consistent reality but this sequence of play (on O and D) would have to give even the staunchest Kai Jones critic goosebumps...

    I'm not as anti-Kai as you think but these flash in the pan type plays make me yawn. I've followed the draft for many years extensively and there are players like Kai every year. During last year's draft process, I was low on Poku and gradually began to see his worth as positive. At least with Poku, he had a large sample size of shooting and a more natural instinct on when to take them. His form was always spot-on: knees didn't bend irregularly, elbow wasn't all the way out. If you bothered to look at Kai's form, you can see that it will take him years to get to even a bare minimum average shooter. That's even IF the NBA team that drafts plays him in that role. I highly suspect he will be used exclusively as a rim running big. His skills on the perimeter are not good enough for teams to rely on him to do that for very long (unless they want to get fired), that they'll immediately put him back inside the paint. It's exactly what happened with Nicholas Claxton & Precious Achiuwa.

  19. #1644
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    It's preposterous to me that just because the Spurs are bad at 3-point shooting, that you now have a distorted view of mid-range shooting as if it's a negative thing. Mid-range shots have value. Nephew, PG, Doncic all have taken big shots in the mid-range. In fact, it can be argued that when either team got cold, their mid-range game saved them. The pace in the playoffs slow way down, and those ISO's you see that lead to mid-range shots often make or break the team. The league is not all about 3-point shooting. This year's playoffs is proof of that.



    A big fat ing yes. If he gets drafted by the Spurs, they would have done their due diligence on his willingness to buy in.
    Dejounte, what's preposterous is not understanding the difference between "hunting" for a mid range two and taking what the defense gives you.

    Not all about the 3s, I'm about a balance like most things in life.

    The mid range augments the dynamic scoring of the those you mentioned and it's the threat of
    outside shooting that opens it up for them, making the game easier for all.

  20. #1645
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    Dejounte, what's preposterous is not understanding the difference between "hunting" for a mid range two and taking what the defense gives you.

    Not all about the 3s, I'm about a balance like most things in life.

    The mid range augments the dynamic scoring of the those you mentioned and it's the threat of
    outside shooting that opens it up for them, making the game easier for all.
    It's a myth that most of Bouk's shots are mid-range twos.

    126 attempts near the rim
    77 attempts mid-range
    72 attempts 3 point shots

    https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.ph...1&end=20200501

    So let's try again because this is a clear misconception you have about Bouknight.

  21. #1646
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    The team has lots of needs. Defense. Outside shooting. Passing. Feel for the game. I don’t see 1-1 scoring as the biggest need, perhaps because some of the other needs are more glaring.

    I don’t see Bouknight making other players better, which means he’d have to be really awesome. If I’m rolling the dice on a guard it’s Giddey to hopefully bring out the best in our other players.

  22. #1647
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    It's a myth that most of Bouk's shots are mid-range twos.

    126 attempts near the rim
    77 attempts mid-range
    72 attempts 3 point shots

    https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.ph...1&end=20200501

    So let's try again because this is a clear misconception you have about Bouknight.
    Numbers above were actually from 2020.

    Here are 2021:

    79 attempts near the rim
    65 attempts mid-range
    75 attempts 3 point shots

    Balance.

    https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.ph...1&end=20210501

  23. #1648
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    Keon Johnson is the one I've repeatedly said (in this thread) was in love with mid-range 2's. I've only now checked his attempts, and they match up with what I've watched extensively:

    93 attempts near the rim
    106 mid-range
    48 shots from 3

    Perhaps you confused Bouknight with Keon.

  24. #1649
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    Keon Johnson is the one I've repeatedly said (in this thread) was in love with mid-range 2's. I've only now checked his attempts, and they match up with what I've watched extensively:

    93 attempts near the rim
    106 mid-range
    48 shots from 3

    Perhaps you confused Bouknight with Keon.
    Keon played 27 games, Bouknight 15.

    Based on your stats btw:

    Keon 3.9 midranges a game, Bouknight 4.3 and you're saying Keon takes a lot of mid range twos...
    Last edited by PhantomDashCam; 06-06-2021 at 09:30 PM.

  25. #1650
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Keon played 27 games, Bouknight 15.

    Based on your stats btw:

    Keon 3.9 midranges a game, Bouknight 4.3 and your saying Keon takes a lot of mid range twos...
    Like exstatic said, Bouk had an abnormally high usage. Of course he would have more mid-range twos, he took more shots overall.


    Go further and do the other shot types:

    Keon
    3.4 near the rim per game
    3.9 mid-range per game
    1.8 3's per game

    Bouknight
    5.3 near the rim per game
    4.3 mid-range per game
    5 3's per game


    Don't leave that out.

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