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  1. #51
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    Nothing is getting "settled" in this thread.
    Well it was worth a shot

  2. #52
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I'm with you on some of this, but come on now...Harp was a washout by the time he went to Chicago. 3-D without the 3
    Ron Harper was 31 and coming off a 20 ppg season when he joined the Bulls.

  3. #53
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    In 94 the Bulls might not even get to the Finals, people forget how good that Knicks team was. They were a game away even with Ewing pulling the ultimate chokejob.
    Game away? They were a shot away. Starks was red hot in Game 6 and if Olajuwon hadn't recovered and tipped that it was going down and Knicks win.


  4. #54
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Game away? They were a shot away. Starks was red hot in Game 6 and if Olajuwon hadn't recovered and tipped that it was going down and Knicks win.

    To this day I don't understand why Riley didn't run the pick and roll with Oakley instead of Ewing, I don't think Thorpe would have gotten that

    Unless the play was initially to pass it to Ewing after the pick and roll but they didn't get the space they wanted and Starks had to take the shot ........But I doubt that, Grocery Bagger was on fire so I'm guessing Riley went with the hot hand

    Good thing for Houston Hakeem was able to block it, IMO Grocery Bagger would have made that shot
    Last edited by lefty; 08-18-2022 at 02:51 PM.

  5. #55
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Ron Harper was 31 and coming off a 20 ppg season when he joined the Bulls.
    The 94-95 Bulls stunk most of the year. If Harper were that same guy, he would have averaged in that 20ppg neighborhood if he were the same player. Instead he scored 6.9 ppg on .426 shooting. He had slowed down and was reinventing himself before MJ made his return later that year.

  6. #56
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    The 94-95 Bulls stunk most of the year. If Harper were that same guy, he would have averaged in that 20ppg neighborhood if he were the same player. Instead he scored 6.9 ppg on .426 shooting. He had slowed down and was reinventing himself before MJ made his return later that year.
    Phil Jackson had Harper take a lesser role because they figured they had a star in their hands in BJ Armstrong. Dude even made the AS team the year before.

  7. #57
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Phil Jackson had Harper take a lesser role because they figured they had a star in their hands in BJ Armstrong. Dude even made the AS team the year before.
    apparently someone here doesnt understand how systems, teammates and roles can massively change someones statistical output

  8. #58
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Phil Jackson had Harper take a lesser role because they figured they had a star in their hands in BJ Armstrong. Dude even made the AS team the year before.
    You said star and BJ Armstrong in the same sentence

    Maybe you were thinking of Kukoc?
    Last edited by Dirks_Finale; 08-19-2022 at 06:11 AM.

  9. #59
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    The 94-95 Bulls were 2nd in Defensive rating but only 12th in scoring that year.. they had scrubs/spot starters like Will Perdue, Larry Krysktowiak and Pete Myers on that team. Yes, they needed more scoring.

  10. #60
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Harper was pulled in as a perimeter defender and facilitator. He suffered no major injuries and was on record to say that he didn’t get the bulls system, especially his first year. As a result his minutes were slashed and this he would score a whole lot less. He was also on record saying that he figured out a different way to contribute by being a defender and facilitator on offense later (sort of like a Pippen lite). So no, he wasn’t washed up. He just had a different role on a different team. Like how Kenny smith went from a 20ppg scorer on the kings to a 13ppg shooter with the rockets or how Avery Johnson went from being cut twice by the rockets as a third string guard to one of the best PG the spurs ever had.

  11. #61
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    The Bulls got Harper because they needed a bigger backcourt, to better match up with Orlando’s

    Harpee didn’t need to score 20 ppg because they had other other scorers on the team

    In the 98-99 season, so after MJ and Pippen left , he scored 25 pts in the 2nd half on the road vs Miami

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1999/05/02/bulls-drop-a-shocker-on-heat/40028aea-9cd5-45a9-ab53-641cebcbc871/

  12. #62
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The Bulls got Harper because they needed a bigger backcourt, to better match up with Orlando’s

    Harpee didn’t need to score 20 ppg because they had other other scorers on the team

    In the 98-99 season, so after MJ and Pippen left , he scored 25 pts in the 2nd half on the road vs Miami

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-641cebcbc871/
    Anecdotes He avg 11 ppg on 38% shooting that year.

  13. #63
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Harper was pulled in as a perimeter defender and facilitator. He suffered no major injuries and was on record to say that he didn’t get the bulls system, especially his first year. As a result his minutes were slashed and this he would score a whole lot less. He was also on record saying that he figured out a different way to contribute by being a defender and facilitator on offense later (sort of like a Pippen lite). So no, he wasn’t washed up. He just had a different role on a different team. Like how Kenny smith went from a 20ppg scorer on the kings to a 13ppg shooter with the rockets or how Avery Johnson went from being cut twice by the rockets as a third string guard to one of the best PG the spurs ever had.
    I guess he had to say something to defend himself

    Realistically, with MJ, Pip and Grant, they could have just plugged in a plethora of players to give them what Harper gave them.

    Not saying he was terrible, just not the same guy from year's past. Sometimes these guys just suddenly hit a wall after 30. (see Josh Howard)

  14. #64
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Anecdotes He avg 11 ppg on 38% shooting that year.
    Harper was also playing with an injury for a good part of that season

  15. #65
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    You said star and BJ Armstrong in the same sentence

    Maybe you were thinking of Kukoc?

  16. #66
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    The Bulls were the most stacked team of the 90s but Jordan fans want us to believe he played with scrubs, smh

    They may not look stacked compared to the great 80s teams, but they were when you look at their compe ion, it just shows how ty the talent pool was in the diluted 90s
    Last edited by lefty; 08-19-2022 at 09:23 AM.

  17. #67
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Devin Harris also made 1 all star team

  18. #68
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    ...

  19. #69
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The Bulls were the most stacked team of the 90s but Jordan fans want us to believe he played with scrubs, smh

    They may not look stacked compared to the great 80s teams, but they were when you look at their compe ion, it just shows how ty the talent pool was in the diluted 90s
    Not so.

    But you guys want us to believe his comp was all plumbers and accountants

    That Knick team was pretty good collectively, imo.

    That 96 Seattle team won like 64 games and was as balanced as they come.

    In 91 all you people were picking the Lakers to oust the inexperienced Bulls. Then when they get tossed up, it's... well Magic had full blown aids and was old and stuff.

  20. #70
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Not so.

    But you guys want us to believe his comp was all plumbers and accountants

    That Knick team was pretty good collectively, imo.

    That 96 Seattle team won like 64 games and was as balanced as they come.

    In 91 all you people were picking the Lakers to oust the inexperienced Bulls. Then when they get tossed up, it's... well Magic had full blown aids and was old and stuff.
    My bad, I forgot to mention the NBA also had milkmen and circus midgets

    Nobody with more than 2 brain cells picked the Lakers, only the clowns who were still stuck in the 80s; the 91 Lakers were not even the favorites to beat the Blazers in the WCF, but Portland being Portland, they found a way to choke


    The Sonics were missing McMillan for a couple of games in the Finals, leaving Payton as their sole ball handler against the Bulls press and perimeter defender.
    Also , that dumbass George Karl waited too long to put Payton on Jordan

  21. #71
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    My bad, I forgot to mention the NBA also had milkmen and circus midgets

    Nobody with more than 2 brain cells picked the Lakers, only the clowns who were still stuck in the 80s; the 91 Lakers were not even the favorites to beat the Blazers in the WCF, but Portland being Portland, they found a way to choke


    The Sonics were missing McMillan for a couple of games in the Finals, leaving Payton as their sole ball handler against the Bulls press and perimeter defender.
    Also , that dumbass George Karl waited too long to put Payton on Jordan
    Scroll to about 6:30. This was the sentiment by the so called experts at that time. You are right, Portland was favored, but when LA won they said it was LA>CHI


  22. #72
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Scroll to about 6:30. This was the sentiment by the so called experts at that time. You are right, Portland was favored, but when LA won they said it was LA>CHI

    Old people ing hated Jordan back then, thought he was just a ballhog and couldn't win the big game. Everyone under 30 knew Jordan was set to tear the rest of the league up.

  23. #73
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    I guess he had to say something to defend himself

    Realistically, with MJ, Pip and Grant, they could have just plugged in a plethora of players to give them what Harper gave them.

    Not saying he was terrible, just not the same guy from year's past. Sometimes these guys just suddenly hit a wall after 30. (see Josh Howard)
    Who would ever say they are too dumb to pick up a system to defend themselves? It’s much easier to say he was done at that point to preserve his own reputation as a dynamic scorer with the clippers and cavs.

    Harper wasn’t a unique talent, nobody argued that, but he was still very important to the team.

    As for Howard, it has more to do with his pot problems and him being public enemy number one after joking around during the national anthem than anything else.

  24. #74
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    The Bulls might not have had much at the center position, but they still destroyed Mourning, Ewing, and Shaq in 3 series in a row in the 1996 playoffs.

  25. #75
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Old people ing hated Jordan back then, thought he was just a ballhog and couldn't win the big game. Everyone under 30 knew Jordan was set to tear the rest of the league up.
    He was a ballhogging loser until Krause, Phil and Scottie came along

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