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  1. #151
    Believe. Em-City's Avatar
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    Am i the only one who would prefer thybulle over Simmons at this point?

  2. #152
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    You're reinforcing my point, my guy.

    What you say is - yet another - big, red flag attached to Simmons. When you talk about "getting [a player] back up to X%" you're usually saying, give the guy rest, some time, work on his mechanics, etc. And it's usually small percentage variations. With Benny, you're trying to surmount a drop of 36% in FT%, completely inexplainable beyond the simple fact that he doesn't have the mental for ude to improve his game in the playoffs. Literally no other outside variations (we're not talking pull-up % or contested shot making, where defenders, matchups etc are factors; it's literally free throws). And then, you take into account the fact that teams were literally Hack-A-Shaq'ing this guy, because not only could he not punish teams for it, he got disgustingly worse at a basic part of the game under pressure. You think teams are gonna stop hacking him just because he's in SanAn instead of Philly? no.

    The book on stopping Simmons is out in the open for everyone to read. Every single team took notes (actually, smart teams have been taking notes for years now, like the Celtics). Unless you're thinking of a sports psychologist (which I have the feeling Benny won't take too well getting sent to), it sure as ain't as easy as "getting him back up to 70%". The problem lies far deeper, deeper than SA can realistically hope to fix.

    Damaged goods, as they call it. Dead end. Whatever you wanna call it.
    lol the same exact thing could've been said about Jakob Poeltl's FT shooting but somehow y'all love the guy. Didn't he shoot 34% for half of the season and then got his percentage back up? You're overreacting here. I mean I doubt Ben Simmons will become a 3-point shooter, but him improving his FT% is a realistic thing

  3. #153
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    then again, philly has to want A LOT. they probably want murray, keldon, lonnie, and two 1st rounders at minimum.
    So what if that's what they want? Look at what the Spurs got for Leonard: Poetl, a very late first, and a guy the Raptors wanted to salary dump anyways. Philly may want a Harden like return but they're not going to get one.

  4. #154
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    The most significant aspect of OP’s post isn’t the Ben Simmons news, IMO, but the tidbit about Pop wanting to go for the all-time wins record. If so, he really could be back for another year, which would be a significant development.

    Youd have to be pretty dense to believe hes not retiring,tbh

  5. #155
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    Am i the only one who would prefer thybulle over Simmons at this point?
    Yes

  6. #156
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Even with his shooting issues, Simmons has always managed to be an efficient scorer. He's leaving points on the table for sure, but he's still generating a surplus for his team. Again, there's no virtue or insight in getting so caught up in a player's flaws that you miss how good he is. Simmons wouldn't be worth these packages if we knew he could be made to shoot well. He'd be worth everything the Spurs could bring to bear and more. The deals I'm proposing are with the understanding that Simmons is basically the same player he is now. Any marked improvement would just be gravy. Straight out of the box, he's worth one of the team's best guards, multiple rotation players/prospects and a pick or two. The only possible disrupting factor would be if he tells the Spurs he doesn't want to play there. But we actually have zero indication that he's worried about the location. Neither he nor his agent actually said the thing about California. Some guy for BR said that's what "he's been told", along with the Sixers desperately trying to trade Simmons during the draft and other predictions that haven't been too true.
    Last edited by Chinook; 08-21-2021 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #157
    #POPOUT
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    I think the Spurs start their offer with Murray, Young, Samanic, Walker and the Chicago 1st round pick and see if the Sixers bite.
    this should be the final offer tbh

  8. #158
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Will the Spurs win as many Championships with Simmons as they did with LMA?

  9. #159
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Am i the only one who would prefer thybulle over Simmons at this point?
    MT is more offensively ed than Simmons.

  10. #160
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Youd have to be pretty dense to believe hes not retiring,tbh
    He’s not retiring. He would have announced already. I thought he might earlier this year, but he’s not going to snake the Spurs by leaving them to put a staff together with just a couple of weeks until training camp.

  11. #161
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Here's my two cents...

    I'm neither strongly for or strongly against. The only reason I've been shrugging this off is because of its unlikelihood to happen. The Spurs had an opportunity to draft a "boom-or-bust" prospect in Jalen Johnson who had all the talent in the world. They went their usual "Spurs way" and likely avoided him due to character concerns. Going after Ben is a move in a similar vein, albeit a more immediate "boom". This news source, like with a lot of the news regarding the Spurs, is probably more clickbait. No one had info on the Spurs leading up the draft, how could they find any now? My guess is when Stein says the Spurs are trying to "barge", it's the Spurs trying to be a third team to move their lesser pieces.

    IMO, it's pretty hard to envision Ben a fit for the Spurs, let alone any team. If I play along, assume this is real, and try to understand how or why the Spurs would want him, it wouldn't be because they think they can improve him as a shooter. Transition offense and overall defense is Ben's bread and butter. Knowing this, Kai would have been a draft target if Ben was in their plans. Anyway, given Ben's strengths, we'd expect a total revamp of the offense to become something like the Suns of yesteryear.

    Now, if there were reasons to strongly oppose, you can find them easily. Ben is a clear non-shooter. Like, it would be foolish to project him to improve his shooting on the Spurs even with Chip on the team.

    Ben takes 52.7% of his shots near the rim with good efficiency: 68.7%
    And then most of the remaining shots are taken from 3-10 ft from the rim, with OK efficiency: 42.6%
    Past 10 feet? He doesn't shoot at. all.

    Since we're all familiar with Murray and his long range deficiencies, let's use him as an example to compare.

    Murray's shot selections includes:
    19.3% of his shots near the rim (64.9 FG%)
    20.5% of his shots 3-10 ft away from the rim (39% FG%)
    26.6% of his shots 10-16 ft away (45.2 FG%)
    13.1% of his shots 16-3P away (31.7 FG%)

    So it's a much more diverse shot selection for Murray.

    Bottomline:
    Simmons wouldn't change into a halfcourt player overnight. If the Spurs get him (which I still believe is extremely unlikely), it would be an interesting thing to watch for sure. Like, he's a much more flawed offensive player than DeMar who we all tore our hair out for several seasons. Could it make the Spurs more entertaining? Possibly. Is it happening? Doubtful.
    Last edited by Dejounte; 08-21-2021 at 09:53 AM.

  12. #162
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    Ben Simmons sucks. Do not want

  13. #163
    Believe.
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    This is a hard pass for me and only because it would probably require multiple players and picks for a player that clearly has some mental issues when it comes to shooting. It’s not like he has a broken jump shot and no one (including the Spurs) will be able to get into his head to see if he can overcome those issues.

    Also, bringing in Summons doesn’t move the needle in my opinion to getting us back to contention because he can never be a franchise player given aforementioned issue. If his mentality was more like Giannis even at 19% from 3 in the playoffs, I would be much more inclined with taking the risk. I haven’t seen anything from Simmons on the course he’s been on that will change and I’m not prepared to lose Murray or any of our young talent since their ceiling as players hasn’t yet to be reached.

    Our best move is to continue to develop our assets and draft wisely. This coming year will tell us a lot about where we are as a franchise so I think we should ride it out this year and can do a revaluation next summer.

  14. #164
    Believe.
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    Yeah let’s trade the farm for a Point Guard who literally can’t shoot the ball. I can only think of a handful of more painful things to do than to watch this man shoot.

    I still have hope this front office hasn’t turned into “Cleveland”

  15. #165
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    One would think that between SA relationship with not only Mills, but the Australian coaches as a whole, that they have a clear picture of who Simmons is.

    I cannot imagine them wanting Simmons if the reports from Mills and/or AUS coaches were negative. So that alone makes me feel better about that aspect.

    I’m assuming they are ok with the character side if they indeed have interest. Is there any quotes in the last 2 years from Mills on Simmons?

  16. #166
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Yeah let’s trade the farm for a Point Guard who literally can’t shoot the ball. I can only think of a handful of more painful things to do than to watch this man shoot.

    I still have hope this front office hasn’t turned into “Cleveland”
    No one wants to trade the farm for Simmons. The farm would be Murray + White + Johnson + Poetl. Murray is the only one I'd give up in a trade for Simmons because he'd be unplayable next to Simmons.

  17. #167
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    I’m assuming they are ok with the character side if they indeed have interest. Is there any quotes in the last 2 years from Mills on Simmons?
    Yes. Patty told Simmons how fleeceable Pop was.

  18. #168
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    No one wants to trade the farm for Simmons. The farm would be Murray + White + Johnson + Poetl. Murray is the only one I'd give up in a trade for Simmons because he'd be unplayable next to Simmons.
    Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks

  19. #169
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks
    Yeah, basically White's the only guy you hesitate to put in the trade, because he and Simmons would fit really well together. Poeltl's a good player, and the Spurs shouldn't trade him just because he theoretically doesn't fit with Simmons, but it's okay to go into next season not knowing who your championship-caliber five will be. They'd have a couple of years to figure that out. I wouldn't trade Keldon as a throw-in, but if Philly sees him as the main piece and it lets SA keep most of their other assets, I'd be willing to let him go. Despite the hype, Johnson wasn't good last year. He has some potential, but he hasn't shown that he's the guy SA should hitch their hopes to in any way other than temperament.

  20. #170
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The tricky part would be if they asked for Murray AND White. On one hand that’s really tough for SA since they are very good players on good contracts. But it also means keeping all the other younger prospects too.

    If it’s something like Murray + White + Jakob + 2 firsts that’s a tough one to swallow although it may be the best way to hedge for SA too by having all the younger prospects + Ben

  21. #171
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks
    But muh lonnyy and his 11/3/2 line last year

  22. #172
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    But muh lonnyy and his 11/3/2 line last year
    He’s the first one I put on the block.

  23. #173
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    The tricky part would be if they asked for Murray AND White. On one hand that’s really tough for SA since they are very good players on good contracts. But it also means keeping all the other younger prospects too.

    If it’s something like Murray + White + Jakob + 2 firsts that’s a tough one to swallow although it may be the best way to hedge for SA too by having all the younger prospects + Ben
    I'm only for trading for Simmons if Philly is forced to give him away like the Spurs were with Leonard. Way too many question marks to trade the two productive players on the team for.

  24. #174
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I'm only for trading for Simmons if Philly is forced to give him away like the Spurs were with Leonard. Way too many question marks to trade the two productive players on the team for.
    Yup. I’m with you in general. It’s a very conflicting scenario and I’ve always learned no unless it was a clear value trade.

  25. #175
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    I think the Spurs start their offer with Murray, Young, Samanic, Walker and the Chicago 1st round pick and see if the Sixers bite.
    Ill boycott the team for a yr ala playblair if they do anything remotely close to this. This would be gross incompetence and demonstrate a basic misunderstanding of front office operations, player development, and ones own place as an organization.

    this move gets you no closer to playoff basketball. it undercuts the "spurs way" in so many fundamental ways as to completely deviate from the only path this team has for success.

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